Should Creationism Be Taught In Schools? - Comments

By the way, I find this a bit biased.

Well, dear, the real Christians don't say or do those types of things.
When people's lives end is up to God, we shouldn't have any part in killing any of his creatures.

Militant atheists put stickers on buses. Militant theists blow them up.

v

Paramatic
There is technically nothing preventing religious people from doing bad things either. I've heard stories of people killing in a god's name. I've seen religious people harass others. Following a religion doesn't mean they're exempt from doing bad things.

You don't seem to be getting what we're trying to tell you...

I never said that Athiests were more likely to commit crimes!

"I simply stated that there was nothing preventing people from doing all those bad things."
Thats completely false though. Just because you don't believe in god doesn't mean you cannot have morals or societal values.

I was not saying that all Athiests are immoral. I never said that.
I simply stated that there was nothing preventing people from doing all those bad things.
Not everyone is fond of human nature.

Paramatic
When you post something discussing religion on mibba, you're pretty much asking for a debate. Especially something of this matter. Religion is an easily debatable subject and us on mibba will openly express our opinions.

Next time if you don't want comments, post it as a journal. Articles you cannot disable comments on, but journals you can. And articles show up on the main page temporarily so they do get a whole lot of attention. With posting an article, you need to really think before you submit it. You can delete it if you really want to by asking a admin to do it for you.

Since teaching creationism is akin to teaching religion, that isn't allowed. There's a separation between church and state, you know, and schools are run by the government. To say that Darwinism in and of itself causes people to do evil things is inaccurate and (obviously) offensive.

And in my opinion, having visited young-earth creationism websites...it does not look like real science to me. Creationism, if allowed in schools at all, are for the World Religions curriculum, and shouldn't be in science classes. One can believe in God without creationism in our schools.

(I know that the author isn't a Christian, so note that the following remarks are not directed at her.) Christians, don't try to get creationism into science classes. When you try to establish religious teachings and laws into schools and the government, that's beyond preaching -- that's forcing. It's counter-productive to the Gospel, and it just leaves people feeling oppressed.

This was a very...strongly written article. And while that's not neccesarily a bad thing, I don't think it helped your article so much. Your passion replaced fact/logic in some places.

You've employed the slippery slope set of fallacies; giving a drastic conclusion to something that you are against happening. I'm agnostic. I believe in evolution, most definitley. And I don't feel the need to commit suicide, knowing that I came from monkeys. Actually, I feel a sense of awe and accomplishment, at evolution's ability to create beings like us, and how far we've come. As well, my science teachers never seemed particulary depressed about teaching evolution; far from it. And the students treated it the same way they treated anything else that requires a thought process. I'd love to see where you got that poll from, too...where it was taken, etc.

And yeah, assumption is bad. I was turned off at the first sentence because I don't believe in a higher being. Always try to convince everyone, not just people who proabably either already support your cause or have the framework to do so :)

I personally believe in evolution, though I can see some merit in intellighent design as the theory that evolution exists, but that God created it. Not a lot, but I can take it as long as you admit evolution exists

All notes on the topic aside, I do appreciate that you used correct structure and grammar/spelling on this article; that was a plus :)

And err, [b]Paramatic[/b]....when you post something in any public domain that has a commment button, I think it's fair to say that you should expect comments, and that some of them will disagree with you.
You yourself said this is a controversial subject....I'd also expect controversial subjects to provoke heated debates.

Okay seriously guys. Calm down. This was for a debate class with my partner. I wasn't asking for a heated argument here. Quit all your yelling, it's not really making a difference. I'd take it down if I could, but I don't know how. Seriously, STOP COMMENTING. I really don't appreciate all the negativity. Thanks.

I agree wholeheartedly with godless.
You've got nothing to prove, writer. Teachers teach what's fact, not myth.

Hm...you should never assume things, darling.

[i]continued.[/i]

[i]If so, what is to stop us from going out and committing crimes, causing a massacre or maybe committing suicide? There’s nothing that comes after this life, apparently, so why bother trying to be a good person? Why bring any children into the world? Maybe because that is how society wants us to interact? Well, is society going to keep you from dying and rotting in the ground?[/i]

So you're saying the only thing that stops you from murdering everyone in sight and killing yourself is because you believe in God? Because, you know, atheists aren't good people AT ALL. This marks assumption number four. You know what stops us from doing these things? Because we don't want to. It's in human nature to want to live and help each other, obviously some more than others. Not because of religion.

[i]But for those of you who love to argue over a political or controversial issue, you may look at it from this point of view. Allowing creationism to be taught enables students to learn about the different religions that came forth from it, which, in turn, has a great deal of educational value.[/i]

But it's only the Christian story taught, of course. What about the Hindus, huh? Where's their spot in the science class? I wanna learn about giant space turtles. And it's not educational value at all. It's drivel.

[i]A controversy is always worth a good discussion.[/i]

THERE IS NO CONTROVERSY.

[i]And a controversial topic on religion is even more thought provoking due to the fact that it is one of the many things that can unify, or destroy, a nation, a community, a family.[/i]

Emphasis on destroy.

[i]Discussing things like this provide critical thinking skills which should be emphasized more in our education.[/i]

You do that in English class, not science class.

[i]Take for example, this debate-slash-speech occurring right now.[/i]

Huh?

[i]From kindergarten we have it drilled into us that we have choices, that no one forces us to do anything.[/i]

More lies being fed to kids in school!

[i]This topic causes you to think about your choices. But do we have any when it comes to mingling education with religion? Evidently, since this is being discussed, we do NOT. Why can we not have any say in this particular matter? What are they afraid of? That we will start thinking about what’s going on and thinking about why this is the way it is? It has gone on record that once we start thinking, things happen.[/i]

You do have a choice. You can take religion classes in school. Also, science is the start of people thinking. We're trying to grow out of religion now.

[i]Many people believe that today’s generation is both capable of restoring peace and of destroying the very fabric of our world. But doing either of these things requires a particular amount of genius, and genius, my friends, is what we have.[/i]

Well, some of us do.

[i]So if it was up to you and me, and the choice was ours, what would you decide?[/i]

How kind of you to ask. My choice would to have no religion in classes that teach things based on factual evidence.

Overall, this article was well-organized. It was poorly researched and full of flaws, but it wasn't a rambling mess. So, it did have structure, I'll give it that. Otherwise, I think what's in it is highly illogical.

Time for a ripping.

[i]I am going to assume that most of us here are religious in some sort and believe in God, or some immortal being from which life began, so maybe it will be easier for me to convince you of something that you already believe in.[/i]

You can't assume things in an article like this. What's funny is the fact that you actually SAY you're making an assumption. Good way to give away that you know nothing about writing anything persuasive. You've made my job so much easier.

Two assumptions that are wrong: that most people here are religious - while it's true the majority of people on Earth are religious, a little internet community is totally different. Second, the fact that everyone religious believes the Earth was created in seven days and is 5000 years old. That's wrong.

[i]In many of my science classes, when this topic of evolution comes up, the kids in the room will groan and ignore it.[/i]

So? I do that in math class. Doesn't mean it's untrue and I shouldn't learn it, or should also learn that God made numbers. And frankly, I love learning about evolution. Assumption number three.

[i]You can tell that even some of the teachers aren’t too happy to preach what they don’t believe in.[/i]

TOO BAD. It's in their job description and curriculum. And evolution is not "preaching" considering that it's a fact.

[i]For their sake, for our sake, creationism must be taught.[/i]

No. You've proven nothing.

[i]Teachers and students must be free to talk about controversial issues openly in the classroom to keep a spirit of freedom of speech and open-mindedness in the school setting.[/i]

THERE IS NO CONTROVERSY. The scientific community does NOT debate whether or not evolution is true. They're done, that's it. There is no more controversy. Evolution is not a "theory". It's a fact. The only reason it's still called a "theory" is to appease the religious people who would get "offended" otherwise.

If the SCIENTIFIC community says evolution is a fact, then it belongs in the SCIENCE class. Derp.

[i]I think that everyone should at least have a chance to choose for themselves, especially the teenagers. We are old enough and wise enough, and we’ve been through quite a lot of experiences which could give us enough sense as to what we want to believe. A poll taken in 2009 showed that 66% of children between the ages of 13 and 17 wanted to know more about creationism than they were being taught.[/i]

Well, if they want to learn more, they can go to church, or a religion class in school. Or Google it, that works, too. It's not up to science to give them false facts.

[i]Who knows if some of those who were surveyed are right in this room?[/i]

What room? This makes no sense.

[i]Look at it from this point of view. What kind of science is being taught to the future of the world? A philosophy, a viewpoint of science rooted in a worldview that blatantly disregards anything supernatural.[/i]

Well, yeah. Because it's not likely that it exists. What's wrong with a life without the supernatural, anyway? The world still is what it is. Science is helping us break out of superstition and discover what the real wonders of the universe are.

[i]Everything happened by accident, by chance. We came from fish, and monkeys and Neanderthals. Is this really what we want to know, and want our descendants to know?[/i]

*facepalm* I'm not even going there.

Pick up a book about evolution for five minutes. IT WAS NOT BY CHANCE. Derp.

[i]f so, what is to stop us from going out and committing crimes, causing a massacre or maybe committing suicide? There’s nothing that comes after this life, apparently, so why bother trying to be a good person? Why bring any children into the world? Maybe because that is how society wants us to interact? Well, is society going to keep you from dying and rotting in the ground?[/i]

So you're saying the only thing that stops you from murdering everyone in sight and killing yourself is because you believe in God? Because, you know, atheists aren't good people AT ALL. This marks assumption number four. You know what stops us from doing these things? Because we don't want to. It's in human nature to want to live and help each other, obviously some more than others. Not because of religion.

[i]But for those of you who love to argue over a political or controversial issue, you may look at it from this point of view. Allowing creationism to be taught enables students to learn about the different religions that came forth from it, which, in turn, has a great deal of educational value.[/i]

But it's only the Christian story taught, of course. What about the Hindus, huh? Where's their spot in the science class? I wanna learn about giant space turtles. And it's not educational value at all. It's drivel.

[i]A controversy is always worth a good discussion.[/i]

THERE IS NO CONTROVERSY.

[i]And a controversial topic on religion is even more thought provoking due to the fact that it is one of the many things that can unify, or destroy, a nation, a community, a family.[/i]

Emphasis on destroy.

[i]Discussing things like this provide critical thinking skills which should be emphasized more in our education.[/i]

You do that in English class, not science class.

[i]Take for example, this debate-slash-speech occurring right now.[/i]

Huh?

[i]From kindergarten we have it drilled into us that we have choices, that no one forces us to do anything.[/i]

More lies being fed to kids in school!

[i]This topic causes you to think about your choices. But do we have any when it comes to mingling education with religion? Evidently, since this is being discussed, we do NOT. Why can we not have any say in this particular matter? What are they afraid of? That we will start thinking about what’s going on and thinking about why this is the way it is? It has gone on record that once we start thinking, things happen.[/i]

You do have a choice. You can take religion classes in school. Also, science is the start of people thinking. We're trying to grow out of religion now.

[i]Many people believe that today’s generation is both capable of restoring peace and of destroying the very fabric of our world. But doing either of these things requires a particular amount of genius, and genius, my friends, is what we have.[/i]

Well, some of us do.

[i]So if it was up to you and me, and the choice was ours, what would you decide?[/i]

How kind of you to ask. My choice would to have no religion in classes that teach things based on factual evidence.

Overall, this article was well-organized. It was poorly researched and full of flaws, but it wasn't a rambling mess. So, it did have structure, I'll give it that. Otherwise, I think what's in it is highly illogical.

@ Aightball

The point was that if is "shoving beliefs down throats" by teaching something then it goes [i]both[/i] ways. I'm not saying it should be mandatory. I'm just saying that teaching something doesn't shove anything down anyone's throat. If that was the case then [i][b]everything[/i][/b] we learn would be, but people only use that argument when it comes to anything dealing with religion.

Personally, I think it should be optional. For the reason that not everyone can afford to attend religious schools. My mom can barely afford my tuition each year but she does because we have no other choice, I cannot attend our public school even if I wanted to because of harassment issues that I had to deal with before freshman year. I'm not saying it should be mandatory, I just think it should at least be offered.

You know what, I had a HUGE reply to this, but I think I'm going to write an article. A counter argument for this.


>:D

I think (i repeat, think) the reason it's against the law to teach it in schools is because....
Well, think of it this way:
Say I'm Jewish (which I'm not), and a friend of mine in the same class as me is Catholic. Would it be fair to me, the Jew, if only the Catholic / Christian version of 'the beginning' was told, or vise versa? No, it would not be fair. There is just not enough time and money to teach about every religion in one or even two classes at a school.
I say that if you want to learn more about a religion, you ask someone personally, in your own time.
I don't mean to be offensive and if this has somewhat offended you, then I am deeply sorry.
Just keep in mind that you should never have to learn something you don't want to be taught.

Wow... Don't be so hateful towards people in anything you write. That's just... that was BEGGING for all this negative feedback. I don't feel sorry for you. You practically screamed at them to lash out. I don't care if you're a kid. That's just horrible.
Anyway, if you want Creationism taught in schools alongside Evolution, in the science classes, disregarding the separation of church and state, we'd have to teach ALL religious beliefs about creation anyway, because this may be a shock to you, but there are more religions than Christianity, and here's the kicker. They don't all believe in your god.

km23>

I guess to me if it's optional, then fine, teach it. But too often, such things are mandatory in public school. As a non-believer, I don't want to hear about things I don't believe in and that can't be proven. I want facts and science gives me those facts. If I want to hear about a fictional way we came into being, I'll take a class on it. But if I'm in public school (which I was when I was in school), then I don't want anything to do with religion in that school. It simply defeats the purpose. If people want religion, go to the religious schools. If you want a secular education, then go to the public schools.

And if it's being mandatory, then it *is* being shoved down our throats. Any time you make someone sit through a religious class that isn't a believer, you're forcing a belief on them. They don't have to believe, but you're still forcing it on them. I want to keep public school secular and if Creationism is being taught, then it's not secular anymore.