We've Come a Long Way, Maybe? - Comments

I liked this article to an extent and clearly, everyone has their own opinions on it. I mean, Radical Feminism annoys me to the bone - it's less 'lets make women equal!' and more 'men are dicks, lets crush them!'. I'm all for equal rights as much as the next girl, but there is a line which one should stand behind, regardless of the issue you're fighting for. Pointing to an issue too much highlights it and can often go against what you're trying to do. I'm not advocating any laissez-faire thing here, but at the same time...

The fact that a woman can choose her career, out of many different opportunities, or even choose to be a stay at home mam, is an amazing feat that our predecessors provided for us. But men deserve to have equal rights too. No one seems to realise that, at least in the UK, fathers don't have the same rights as mothers, especially single fathers. The best kind of feminism is the type that wants equality for all, rather than just pushing up women.

All in all, your article was really nicely written and structured, and was clearly thought provoking. I liked reading the comments (they help provide context), and seeing other people's views on the subject of feminism. But we must remember that 'feminism' is a blanket term - like all other movements and ideologies, there are different branches. Anyway, I enjoyed reading, nicely done.

@ Hilltop Hi-Jinks
I was just quoting someone, lol relax. I know they're different. To some people, however, BDSM is a total turn off and, really, its all based on perspective. That's just how I see it, anyways. No need to get on a high horse about different types of porn and what not. I'm a sexually active adult, I know what I'm talking about. That's not the real issue being discussed here anyways. I apologize for my wicked late response, I'm hardly on here anymore.

Mystik Spiral:

@ Deus Ex Machina

I am from Australia, and we don't see a lot of sexism over here, than say America, as I said before we have the issue of racism to fix. But here in Australia there are plenty of women in managerial positions and high paying jobs. But as I said in my last post some women choose their families over their careers, and that's perfectly fine.

Scientology is a cult, not a religion. I know plenty of Christians, Catholics, Muslims and Jewish people who believe in gay marriage and equality for everyone. Yes religion has had a terrible past, but one cannot think that all people of religion are out to oppress and control people. And I only used religion as an example of your generalizations, I just thought it was an effective analogy.

And as I and sluggy have mentioned before, there are some women who are sort of forced into the porno industry because of their social and economic background, and the more people can help them the better off they'll be. There are some women, very rarely, who like being courtesans like Belle De Jour, who is very famous in England (They even have a t.v show based on her book). Then there's Dita Von Teese, my girlfriend has a girl crush on her hahaha. But there are so many girls who don't really have a choice, it's either sell their bodies or starve. Then there's sex slavery, which is still very very prevalent.

On a different note, how great is this debate? Everyone's coming up with such good points.

No no no, we don't see a lot of sexism in America, either. Please don't turn this into an opportunity to mock and berate Americans. As a working woman I see just as many chances to advance and raise my salary as my male counterparts. I'd like to see the percentage of Australian women in high-paying jobs but I'm not finding anything. However, the Fortune 1000 is companies from all around the world and yet again, women only make up 4%.

Scientology is legally classified as a religion and that's how L. Ron Hubbard wanted it. I see no good in religion. All I see is blind hatred. There are good facets, yes, but look at the pope. He's sitting in a chair made of gold, trying to claim to speak God's words, while people across the world are starving to death. It's all about making yourself look good. There are a few charity organizations in America that are religious: The Salvation Army, Samaritan's Purse, etc. But there are non-religious people who do just as much good and don't have the blood of millions on their hands.

You can't automatically assume these women are "forced." Circumstances could have led them to it but you need to ask them, "is this where you want to be?" I bet most of them will say yes. I don't know why you're complaining about porn and the income gap in the same breath. Women are in 88% of health care and 81% are in education. We all know schools don't pay teachers well and I bet most women in health care are either nurses or technicians. On the otherhand, men make up 80% of engineers, who earn more right out of school and get higher raises.

I'm curious to know how you think we should close the "wage gap." You think the less qualified person should be hired? Gender shouldn't be considered. Maybe we should all stop crying foul and open our eyes to the fact that men are in the higher-paying jobs. They probably always will be. Why? Well, if we're talking biology, men are more geared towards "difficult" careers: technology, math, engineering. Women work in education, clerical, or health care.

I also looked up some more statistics and it turns out that 79% of mothers prefer to work part time or not at all. Not surprising. Oddly, 70% of fathers prefer to work full time! Men work more hours across the board which is what contributes to this gap in pay. When a couple has children, who's expected to stay home? The mother. There's nothing wrong with that. But complaining about it being unfair is pointless.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/dec/14/radical-feminism-waging-the-real-war-on-women/

I'm just curious about something. You bring up good points, but I'm wondering what you believe should be done about women in the porn industry? Yeah, those women have been sexually abused but they're more likely than not going to want to stay in the porn industry, and they're not ever going to be brain surgeons. Their mentality is premature and it always will be because of their sexual abuse (most likely as young women or kids) and that's horrible, I understand that. But I've seen women who have come out of porn, and that's great, but chances are they're not going to leave beacuse they've got a screwed up idea about sex, and they see porn as a job and as a way to make really good money. I appreciate your want of saving these women, and I understand how awful it is that they get abused, but they don't want to leave. They find porn to be enjoyable, some even find that they're taking custody of their own body and expressing it and using it in ways that they find to be liberating. If I could save all of the abused girls, I would too. But the harsh reality is you can't and their skewed idea about sex and porn is something that makes them want to stay. Porn is a billion, maybe even trillion, dollar industry and it's not going anywhere.

Maybe being a housewife is mentally and physically crippling, but who are you or anyone else to judge them if they choose that lifestyle? Biologically speaking, women have an extremely strong maternal instinct, so it's not that hard to believe that what some women want is to stay at home and take care of kids. I understand why the below comment brought up religion, because a lot of religious people claim to be tolerant, but only if you follow the same religion as they do. Feminism is kind of like that, they want to support women only if they follow the lifestyle they believe they should. It's odd that you think a housewife is forced into her lifestyle (that's what you made it sound like below) and most likely she's not. If she finds it too hard and wants to get out, then she should get the help she needs. But if she enjoys her lifestyle as a housewife and finds it to be the right lifestyle for her, why shouldn't she live it? She makes those decisions for herself.

@ Deus Ex Machina

I am from Australia, and we don't see a lot of sexism over here, than say America, as I said before we have the issue of racism to fix. But here in Australia there are plenty of women in managerial positions and high paying jobs. But as I said in my last post some women choose their families over their careers, and that's perfectly fine.

Scientology is a cult, not a religion. I know plenty of Christians, Catholics, Muslims and Jewish people who believe in gay marriage and equality for everyone. Yes religion has had a terrible past, but one cannot think that all people of religion are out to oppress and control people. And I only used religion as an example of your generalizations, I just thought it was an effective analogy.

And as I and sluggy have mentioned before, there are some women who are sort of forced into the porno industry because of their social and economic background, and the more people can help them the better off they'll be. There are some women, very rarely, who like being courtesans like Belle De Jour, who is very famous in England (They even have a t.v show based on her book). Then there's Dita Von Teese, my girlfriend has a girl crush on her hahaha. But there are so many girls who don't really have a choice, it's either sell their bodies or starve. Then there's sex slavery, which is still very very prevalent.

On a different note, how great is this debate? Everyone's coming up with such good points.

sluggy:

@ Deus Ex Machina

"[Women in porn] aren't hurting themselves and they aren't hurting anyone else."

No, but they are being hurt by the pornographers who take advantage of their poverty and who rape them for public entertainment and profit.

The fact that we live in a society in which women's rape is public entertainment ought to concern all of us, regardless of whether or not you call yourself a feminist.

"Sex is sex, and it sells."

It's funny, then, why men are not desperately selling their bodies for money - lining up to be degraded and abused in front of cameras - in anything even remotely approaching the numbers in which women (are forced to) sell thesmelves.

"I'd like to see statistics on this."

One of zillions of examples: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/oct/24/physicists-show-bias-against-female-job-applicants

"The study found not only that the scientists rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant, but also that the hirers would have given the male student a higher starting salary. "Male and female science-faculty members, including physicists, said they were more likely to hire the male student," says Moss-Racusin. "They also offered to pay him about $4000 more per year on average and were more likely to offer him career mentoring, relative to the identical female student." "

Workplace discrimination is pervasive and sets women back at every level. The fact that women have to do almost everything around the house (because most men don't do their fair share) does not even come close to explaining the staggering economic discrepancy at every level.

I still don't see how and why you consider pornography "rape." Are women supposed to hide their sexuality behind closed doors? Does it disgust you to see a female expressing sexual pleasure? I hope you know that many, many, MANY women and men find non-consensual sex in porn to be highly arousing. It's a secret fantasy. That doesn't mean that rape is okay. I also do not care for your use of the term "rape." You don't know what rape is. It isn't watching porn online. It's being violated to your core, violently and against your will. These women all consent (at least, they do in the United States. Canada is sounding less and less attractive, tbh.)

You must not know many men. They are highly aroused by images--naked women, women engaging in sex, bare breasts, etc. The images can get their motors going. Women? Not so much. Studies have proven time and time again that the key to arousal in females is nearly opposite of a man's. So why are people going to try to sell something that won't move? 90% of people watching porn are male and I'd say a good chunk of them are heterosexual. Young, attractive girls having sex on camera is what they want to see and the girls are willing to do it.

A Google search can easily refute any of your examples. There's studies saying women are actually earning more. This is only in one section of the entire possible list of careers. Physics is NOT a place many women make their mark. As I said before, more women work in clerical jobs, cleaning jobs, etc. It's pretty uncommon to see a woman in high-ranking scientific positions. I don't think it has to do with any bias. The men are better equipped for the job. Also wondering if you looked at my link about the Fortune 1000 companies, because those are the best-of-the-best and women only make up FOUR PERCENT.

Men don't do their fair share around the house? Please. My boyfriend does all the cleaning and I make most of the money. How's that for strange? I think it's a gross generalization to say that men are lazy and useless (which is what you're doing.) As aforementioned, this "staggering economic discrepancy" is because men take the higher earning jobs. Please read my links! Also, if you're a physicist, $4,000 is not a huge blow to your salary. I still can't believe you said most men don't help out around the house. I can't stand feminists.

@ Deus Ex Machina

"[Women in porn] aren't hurting themselves and they aren't hurting anyone else."

No, but they are being hurt by the pornographers who take advantage of their poverty and who rape them for public entertainment and profit.

The fact that we live in a society in which women's rape is public entertainment ought to concern all of us, regardless of whether or not you call yourself a feminist.

"Sex is sex, and it sells."

It's funny, then, why men are not desperately selling their bodies for money - lining up to be degraded and abused in front of cameras - in anything even remotely approaching the numbers in which women (are forced to) sell thesmelves.

"I'd like to see statistics on this."

One of zillions of examples: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/oct/24/physicists-show-bias-against-female-job-applicants

"The study found not only that the scientists rated the male applicant as significantly more competent and hireable than the (identical) female applicant, but also that the hirers would have given the male student a higher starting salary. "Male and female science-faculty members, including physicists, said they were more likely to hire the male student," says Moss-Racusin. "They also offered to pay him about $4000 more per year on average and were more likely to offer him career mentoring, relative to the identical female student." "

Workplace discrimination is pervasive and sets women back at every level. The fact that women have to do almost everything around the house (because most men don't do their fair share) does not even come close to explaining the staggering economic discrepancy at every level.

@ Sara_K

"But if the women consents, there's really nothing to be done or said about it."

Women don't "choose" to be in pornography any more than a homeless person might "choose" to eat from a trash can. The women who end up in porn literally have nowhere else to go.

"Just because her goals don't fit what a feminist's goals might be doesn't mean that her goals are any less valuable."

As I mentioned in my earlier comment, there are certian things that all human beings (even women) have in common. One of those things is a need for mental and physical stimulation and challenge. The life of a housewife, whatever its own merits, is emotionally and mentally crippling; it stunts the human development of a human being.

The point isn't to judge and look down on women who don't subscribe to some kind of feminist ideal; the point is to understand that, in a male-supremacist society, women's choices are limited. Just as the choices of a poor person are limited in a society of economic inequality. If there is a level of human dignity and freedom that is off-limits to a certain population (women, the poor, whoever), then you can't call their "choices" the free choices of a free human being.

One last thing: a woman is more likely to be killed, beaten, or raped in her home than anywhere else. The home is actually the most dangerous place for women in this society (by "this society", I meant developed, Western nations, every single one of which is male-supremacist). Something to keep in mind the next time people think, "oh, there's nothing wrong with a woman being kept at home to serve her family with no economic independence of her own."

Mystik Spiral:

I personally don't think that pornography is bad, but I think how those women got into pornography/prostitution needs to be addressed. In some cases those women choose to be in that industry, and good for them. But there are a lot of women, a lot of young girls who are sold into that industry because of their economic and social background. And I think there needs to be women's groups to help them.

And I think it's a huge generalization to say that feminism is about hating all men. It's a bit like saying that all religion is a front to control and oppress people, which simply isn't true. (By the way I'm Atheist) It's a bit like judging an entire race or culture because of a few bad eggs. I do admit that there are women who hate men, but they're not really feminists, they're sexists and that's completely different to feminism.

There are plenty of women in high paying jobs, the fact of the matter is in some companies the male will probably get the promotion because there is always a "risk" of the woman becoming pregnant. Which I think is a bit ridiculous, pregnancy shouldn't be seen as a penalty. And there are a lot of women who like to both have a family and a career, the women who choose to be housewives are intelligent people, they just find that their family is more important than a career.

I think we have more important things to worry about than researching why women are entering pornography. They aren't hurting themselves and they aren't hurting anyone else. Sex is sex, and it sells.

Apparently you aren't familiar with Scientology. It's all about control. It's about suppressing the masses to a tolerable level. Back in the Middle Ages, Christianity was the worst offender. You HAD to obey their religion. The Crusades were singularly focused on obliterating people who refused to worship God. Religion has a long and bloody history, filled with death, oppression, child molestation, rape, and control. I don't know why we needed to bring religion into this but it always seems to worm it's way into the dirtiest crevasses.

I'm talking about "modern" feminism, which you apparently didn't read. You're sticking your head in the sand if you don't see the obvious touting of sexism that goes on within current feminist circles. I do not and will never consider myself a feminist. I'm not sure where any of you live, but women are far from oppressed in the United States. We have the same rights as men and can easily complain if we feel we're being harassed or otherwise threatened.

I'd like to see statistics on this. There are very few women in high-paying jobs and most women simply don't work as much as men. This is because women focus more on having a family and staying home. Salary isn't a deciding factor. Only 4% of the CEOs in the Fortune's top 1000 companies are female. In some metro areas, unmarried women in their 20s earn more than men because they're surrounded by poorly educated, low-wage Latino males. It all depends on location and the population in said location.

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2012/10/09/the-real-reason-why-women-earn-less-than-men/

If a woman wants to do porn, it isn't anti-feminist. If a woman is forced into porn, it is.

I don't know what it's like in Canada, but in America women can be incredibly vocal on women's issues. This includes younger women, like myself.

However, I thought your article was incredibly well-written. As an American, I had never heard of this massacre and it was interesting to read from another viewpoint.

Oh, I certainly agree that women who are in the pornography business more likely than not have been sexually abused some time in their life. I don't think porn is bad, and like I said, the whole torture porn thing bothers me a lot. But if the women consents, there's really nothing to be done or said about it.

As far as the feminism thing goes, I'm just pointing out that I find extreme feminism to be kind of hypocritical. I agree with certain aspects of feminism; that women should feel empowered and should create the life they want for themselves and all of that. You asked if it's fair to ask women why the prefer to be mothers... Why should their motives be questioned? Would you question a woman's motive if she wanted to be a working, successful woman? If a woman decides to be a stay-at-home mom, the whole point of women's empowerment is she can be what she wants without having to answer to anyone. It's hard to accept sometimes, I know, I don't agree with that lifestyle. But that doesn't mean she's wrong in doing it. Just because her goals don't fit what a feminist's goals might be doesn't mean that her goals are any less valuable. And I'm not trying to attack you or anything, I'm just saying that feminism shouldn't be just about empowering women who don't want to live a 1950's-esque lifestyle. Because some women still want that.

But I agree with you on the rape thing. Women's rape does seem too normalized in society. It's like someone hears about it on the news and they're not surprised, they feel bad for a few seconds and forget about it. And what's worse, it's hard to say how we can stop things like that. I know of a lot of organizations that help women who have been sexually abused, and yet still so many become victims. It's upsetting.

Hey all, this is sluggy (author of the article). I'm not going to address the virulently anti-feminist comments (because if you hate feminism period, there's nothing I can say to you). But I'd like to address some of the other comments/arguments being made here.

First of all, there's a tendancy to think of discrimination on an individual level - if a man refuses to hire a qualified woman for a job just because she's a woman (or ditto for a white person and a black person), then we see that as discrimination. That's true, of course, but discrimination doesn't stop there (on the individual level) - it's also structural and built into the society itself. To be female in a male-supremacist society, or black in white-supremacist society, means that you are systematically devalued and that various institutions in society uphold your subordination. That means in a patriarchal society, men and women are not on equal footing per se (in just about anything).

How is this relevant? Well, let's look at rape for example. Women are the overwhelming majority of rape victims; even on the rare occasion that a male is raped, he's almost always raped by another man. (Yes, there are female rapists, but they are very, very rare. And it's usually an older woman going after a child, because she needs the age difference to compensate for the power imbalance.) But on the rare occasion that men/boys are raped, it's generally taken very seriously. For example, when people found out about the Catholic Church abusing (mostly) boys, there was a lot of outrage. But in society more broadly, girls are about 4 times more likely to be raped than boys; yet we rarely hear about that, let alone get upset over it. That's because sexual violence against boys/men is seen as montrous and abnormal; sexual violence against girls/women is seen as par the course normal. Our commitment to do anything necessary to protect boys from molestation (despite its relative rarity) is testimony to the value of a boy's life; our refusal to do anything necessary to protect girls from molestation (despite its relative ubiquity) is testimony to the worthlessness of a girl's life.

AboveUsOnlySky mentioned that some women like being stay-at-home mothers, etc. That's obviously true, and I'm not going to physically force such women to go out and work if they don't want to. But isn't it fair to ask why some women enjoy that? After all, men (even those who *really* love children) rarely do. Since girls and boys are raised in very different ways, and treated extremely different from day one, is it at all conceivable that the tastes we develop as we grow up are influenced by that? Human beings (irrespective of sex) need stimulation and are generally driven to try new things that challenge them, etc. In a society that didn't stunt women's potential in so many ways, is it at all conceivable that women would not enjoy living that kind of sheltered life? (And no, I'm not saying that motherhood is inherently degrading; I'm saying that limiting your entire life to just that one aspect is. There are societies, such as the traditional Iroquois, where women have a lot of economic and political power, and where motherhood doesn't lower a woman's status because women are not devalued to begin with.)

Lastly, concerning porn - all of the women who get into porn are *extremely* poor and most (estimates vary from 60 to 75%) have a history of child sexual abuse. They are there because they have nowhere else to be, not because they woke up one morning and decided that sucking dicks sounded better than becoming a brain surgeon. They are also frequently abused within the industry and use a lot of drugs to mentally/emotionally survive their "job". Anybody who can say with a straight face that porn is just like any other job has no idea what porn actually is and has never listened to the stories of women who were in it. The fact that women in this society are paid lots of money to be abused for public entertainment isn't proof of female empowerment; it's unspeakable tragedy.

AboveUsOnlySky:

I agree with you being bothered by the whole BDSM aspect of /actual/ porn (torture, I think you said specifically) but to each his own I guess.

BDSM and torture are two VERY different things. Just as you don't want to lumped in with more extreme feminists, you shouldn't lump in BDSM with something that will legitimately cause grievous bodily harm just because of extremists parading as practitioners.
B/D.D/S.S/M, as it is when broken into it's factions, in it's simplest form is the give and take of complete trust and love, the willingness to make your significant other as happy as they can be and the ability to understand the difference between embarrassment, hurt and harm.
There's nothing sinister that can even remotely relate to torture for people who understand the practice and use it appropriately.

@ Sara_K that is my exact problem with it. I know a lot of women who want to be homebodies and have lots of kids and take care of their children and husbands in the future. I even know someone who wants to be a trophy wife and hell, if that's what she wants then good for her! Let her be that way. I totally think its hypocritical. Literally every feminist I know - and I'm not saying this applies to every feminist in the world, forget America, but just the ones I know - takes it to the extreme. I don't think people realize just how many advancements women have made. Women have worn pants since the 60s. Even in media, we have more female comedians like Kristen Wiig and Tina Fey that are actually popular among both sexes, and even movies like Magic Mike that advertise male bodies are huge milestones. So what if that movie was like borderline porn with a dumb plot, aren't a lot of movies now-a-days? I agree with you being bothered by the whole BDSM aspect of /actual/ porn (torture, I think you said specifically) but to each his own I guess. And with the whole sexual abuse thing, yeah I'm a victim of it. I'm in college and in a sorority and we had a mixer with a frat at a bar and one of their pledges tried to do a little too much with me and I pushed him up, cried over it when I got home and called out the frat. You don't see me boo-hooing about it every single day; I have friends who were raped who don't cry about it every day either. People move on with their life. And I don't buy bullcrap about women never being the sexual assaulter, its just as likely for a woman to be likely to sexually assault a guy as it is vice versa. Just watch the South Park episode where Ike and his teacher have an affair, haha.

Porn isn't bad, not at all. The only things about porn that bother me are the whole torture thing and that some of the girls don't necessarily look legal. But I suppose it's just a matter of taste. I heard in Cali they're making porn stars wear condoms, which a lot of people are not cool with.

But that's a whole other can of worms.

I agree with most of the below quotes regarding feminism, although I focused more on the sexual abuse part of this article. Not necessarily the porn/ femininity part. I guess what I didn't think about before my first comment was that while sexual abuse is always bad, it's often forgotten that men can be victims of sexual abuse but that doesn't seem to get as much attention... Hm.

AboveUsOnlySky:

Unfortunately feminism is a joke and probably will be for a long time. I believe in equality with women and all and I am a victim of sexual assault but I'm not going to be all, "I hate men, yeah feminism!" over it. I think a lot of the problems with feminism - at least in the US, anyways - is that its an extreme rather than an idea and, similarly to why people like Ron Paul don't get elected president even though people agree with him, it is too extreme for people to want to stand firm with. I know a lot of feminists who are, to put it bluntly, batshit crazy and I know I wouldn't want to associate myself with them even though we have common ideas.

Just thinking out loud here. Doesn't it seem kind of hypocritical that feminism is a movement concerning the freedom of women to choose their own lifestyle, as long as it's the lifestyle feminists believe they should choose? I agree with your comment, and it made me think. They want women to have the choice to live their own lifestyle, but if a woman wants to stay at home and take care of the kids while her husband goes to work and makes the money, does feminism support that lifestyle? Because it seems like that's what they're trying to stop...

I'm getting way too philosophical for my own good, so I'll stop.

Unfortunately feminism is a joke and probably will be for a long time. I believe in equality with women and all and I am a victim of sexual assault but I'm not going to be all, "I hate men, yeah feminism!" over it. I think a lot of the problems with feminism - at least in the US, anyways - is that its an extreme rather than an idea and, similarly to why people like Ron Paul don't get elected president even though people agree with him, it is too extreme for people to want to stand firm with. I know a lot of feminists who are, to put it bluntly, batshit crazy and I know I wouldn't want to associate myself with them even though we have common ideas.

I personally don't think that pornography is bad, but I think how those women got into pornography/prostitution needs to be addressed. In some cases those women choose to be in that industry, and good for them. But there are a lot of women, a lot of young girls who are sold into that industry because of their economic and social background. And I think there needs to be women's groups to help them.

And I think it's a huge generalization to say that feminism is about hating all men. It's a bit like saying that all religion is a front to control and oppress people, which simply isn't true. (By the way I'm Atheist) It's a bit like judging an entire race or culture because of a few bad eggs. I do admit that there are women who hate men, but they're not really feminists, they're sexists and that's completely different to feminism.

There are plenty of women in high paying jobs, the fact of the matter is in some companies the male will probably get the promotion because there is always a "risk" of the woman becoming pregnant. Which I think is a bit ridiculous, pregnancy shouldn't be seen as a penalty. And there are a lot of women who like to both have a family and a career, the women who choose to be housewives are intelligent people, they just find that their family is more important than a career.

While I agree with that nearly everything is becoming sexualized, It's not just limited to the women. EVERYTHING is becoming sexualized.

I hear/read the word "feminism" and it's automatically synonymous with the word "sexist." Both men and Women are guilty of it. Quit perpetuating it For crying out loud. What Deus Ex Machina said in her Comment was spot on. Though, one more point to add, What about Gay and other types of porn? I don't see any advocacy for that. Is that not also "degrading" to the parties involved? No. Not if they choose it of their own free will and the viewers can separate Fantasy from reality as Deus Stated. It is not Men who are sexist against women, It is THAT man, or that GROUP of men that are and Visa Versa. This is the very same As Racism. White people aren't allowed to say "nigger" Simple because they're white. Every damn group is a minority these days. Quit judging the whole by a part. Man, Woman, Black, white, gay, Straight, Stupid, Intelligent, Beautiful, Ugly, We are all...Human.

Bah.. Didn't mean to Rant.

I firmly believe that modern feminism is a front to perpetuate gender supremacy and hatred of anything with a penis.

Also, the pornography thing bothers me. It isn't degrading. It's a job and they make really good money selling something that men absolutely love. My boyfriend watches porn and I could care less. He doesn't expect me to look or act like whatever female he sees because he, like most men, can separate fantasy from reality. Sex is integral to men and visual cues are the strongest turn on for them. Who cares? Don't like it, don't watch it. You don't like how porn "degrades" women (perhaps down to the level of men?) but at the same time, you don't want women to be held to strict societal standards of dress and appearance. Women have absolute freedom unless it involves showing their own sexual pleasure on the internet: then they're dirty harlots.

Men earn more money than women because they enter different occupations. How many wildly rich female CEOs do you see? Very, very few. That's why there's a skew in earnings. Women are not taking the high-paying jobs. Why? Because they aren't going to graduate school to become nuclear physicists or building Microsoft or coding Facebook. A lot of women choose to raise children and stay home. We need to encourage girls to go into things like science and math. I'm going to veterinary school. In a few years, I'll be making twice what my boyfriend makes.

God bless the women who gave me the right to vote, marry who I want, and go to school. I'll be making you proud, ladies.