Sexism and Feminism: The Muslim Perspective - Comments

@ Spiralling Shape
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=aSStIkuI_o4 An interesting video, I was at first just going to watch the start...but I keep watching it. I didn't even know these things. :P

I can't even seem to figure what this article is. It claims to have the 'Muslim' perspective on sexism and feminism yet it doesn't do that AT all- its a badly written rant about you're own opinions and fair enough, you're free to state them, but don't put them in a context where you claim to be stating facts because you're doing anything BUT. This article has no research or accurate data at all, in fact, majority of what you've said is from a CULTURAL perspective, Islam doesn't dictate it at all. So from one muslim to another, i suggest you attempt to understand what Islam teaches about women, because their status in Islam is actually beautiful- BEFORE you begin to scatter them on a networking site like this one where information like this can truly have an impact.

The things you're talking about are what extremists do. That's not real Islam. True Islamic teachings preach peace, harmony, love and equality for women. People pick out things out of context to use them for their benefits. Quran clearly says that women have a right to marry who they want. Those people who force their daughters and sisters to marry someone they don't want are defying Islamic teachings. Please don't mislead people to believe that it's the way of Islam to discriminate women. Thanks =)

@discoveringclouds

Yeah, I typed the first two comments on my iPhone when I was about to catch a plane. Not my most articulate moments

@ Spiralling Shape
Yeah a lot clearer.

One thing is for sure it is not allowed to be extreme in our religion. A lot of scholars emphasize this.

Culture and people are the problem and miscommunication. Islam is perfect.

Thanks for replying. I'm glad you understand more now. :)

@ discoveringclouds

I'm sorry to hear that you found my comments offensive. That wasn't my intention at all and I can only say that I don't think I phrased myself well and I can see how I came off as a douche.

So basically, I read the article that you mentioned, and I'm not denying the validity of anything written there. I hope I didn't give the impression I am. What I'm trying to say is that it would be a huge falsehood to say that no one has ever interpreted a religious text in a way that impacts on an individual or groups' basic human rights. I use the term 'religious text' very deliberately because I am aware that plenty of people of all races and religions have committed heinous acts under the belief that they were justified by their religion, not just Muslims.

I don't think that Islam is a violent, oppressive, discriminatory religion. Not at all. I also agree that there is a difference between culture and religion, but in some places the two are inextricably linked. For example, in Saudi Arabia (granted, this is an extreme example) they fully use Sharia Law to govern, and have no constitution or legal code. Cultural norms are enforced by the Mutawa, a group which thefreedictionary.com defines as "religious police in Saudi Arabia whose duty is to ensure strict adherence to established codes of conduct". There is a huge difference between the rights and freedoms that a man can enjoy in Saudi Arabia, and those that a woman can. This is an unavoidable fact. And while I think it's amazing that women flourish in such cultures, and many don't think there is a problem, there is also undeniably a vast amount of women that don't and don't have a voice either. It's also true that many women don't think that their society needs to change, but I personally have a problem with inequality and injustice.

For the record, I don't think that Islam forces women into marriage/sex either but that's not to say that forced marriages are unrelated. According to the AHA Foundation "The Tahirih Justice Center released survey results in September of 2011 that found as many as 3,000 known or suspected cases of forced marriage within immigrant communities in the United States in the two years preceding the survey." Admittedly, this is across all religions and is DEFINITELY a cultural issue, as opposed to a religious one but the same website goes onto say that in 2010, 131 British citizens were rescued from Pakistan after having been taken there for marriage against their will. As I previously said, in some places, culture and religion are so tied together that it's hard to separate one from the other.

Islamic Law is interpreted and implemented in Muslim societies in a huge variety of ways. I'm perfectly happy to agree that many Muslims live happy, healthy lives and enjoy the same rights as, for example, I do. However, it's undeniable that there are people suffering at the hands of religious extremists and fundamentalists and I think ignoring this fact is dangerous.

I hope I've made myself a bit clearer?

@ discoveringclouds
Ah I can´t take the credit for that. I must make plenty of shukr that we have really good Islaamic programs on the radio. So all that I know is what I´ve heard

If I could just add my extra two cents... Technically women can't get sold for marriage in Islam. Yes, men have to pay what is called a "mehr" which can be stipulated by the bride's side but that money goes solely to the bride. Her husband can't ask her to share it or help with his business using that money and the bride's family can't ask for it either. From the Islamic perspective.
I just wanted to say this because I've seen this being said quite a bit...

I think religion needs to separated entirely from this article. This is a worldwide cultural issue rather than an Islamic one and it's very sad that you think a religion that promotes peace and understanding is propelling and supporting arranged marriages.
I once met a Muslim woman who was incredibly proud of her headdress (it was a way for women to worship Allah 24/7 in a way men could not, making them feel closer to Him) and when I asked about homosexuality in the religion, she stunned me when she said that although Allah did not support homosexuality, he understood and as long as you lived a good life otherwise there was still a chance of you going to live with Him in paradise. This is cultural, not religious.

@ Spiralling Shape
Hmm about the tolerance in Islam. I think a very strong example of this is the difference between how Christians and Jews lived under the Islamic empire during its golden ages compared to the times in Europe around the renaissance when Jews were severely treated by Christians. The spanish inquisition, i believe it was called. Whereas when Muslims ruled most of the world around the ottoman empire times there was peace and no accounts of torture or violence. -my Christian political science Teacher's Assistant taught me this. Saying Islam isn't as intolerant as some people imagine.

So even from the western liberal perspective of my TA you can see there is more to Islam then the media and news portrays

@ Spiralling Shape

Islam means peace. From Islam I get peace of mind, peace when I go out and peace in every aspect of my life.

I just used Google search engine to read about women's rights in Islam.

And I'm sure you can find even more information that's true if you're looking to find the truth.

Also check out the comments below, one person here converted to Islam and feels she has more rights than she could have asked for. Which I think is amazing. Others are saying how they do know they have rights.

http://www.islamtomorrow.com/women/rights.asp

So, as I plan to graduate soon from university and further my education, I know that I can work and that I don't have to give a penny to my husband. And he'll know that too and have to accept it. That's my right and I'm happy to know it and know it must be understood. I have the right to my earnings.

So when I was talking to my dad about business and going for interviews and getting out of student loans he was offering to help me. Even though I am educated enough for a job. He encourages me to get a job, but also he is still making a plan to help me pay off my debts. And that was yesterday. So just from this, again I was reminded, that I am fully entitled to my earnings and I don't have to spend it on anyone else. Of course, I do want to send my parents on vacation as soon as I make some money. :D

@ Spiralling Shape
You may be trying not to be offensive but you should reread what you just wrote to me. You're trying to tell me Islam forces women into marriage and sex? It doesn't. Women must give their consent of their free will, without being forced. Anything else is not allowed. Families don't get paid to marry their daughters off. They are not allowed forcing their daughters. They are not allowed selling their daughters. I don't see why they would force them. No girl I know has ever been forced by Islam. Girls I know want to get married just like I'm sure girls you know want to.

Maybe in someone's family you know they are forced to marry someone else, but that's a person or family or tradition forcing then. It's not religion. It's not Islam.

You need to look at the difference between culture and religion. Don't judge Islam by people, look into Islam by studying it. And sadly you are making generalizations about that which you know nothing of. Don't do that, it's really hurtful.

Also I don't know who is interpreting the Quran for you, but I suggest talking to an Islamic scholar instead for proper understanding.

@ discoveringclouds
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I agree, cultures are usually the problem however I still think these cultures treat women unfairly. While some women would find the term 'second class citizen' offensive, I think it's a fair term to apply when one group of people don't have the same rights as another, which is clearly the case here. I hate to criticise anyone's beliefs but I think it is naive to say that Islam is a peaceful, tolerant religion so therefore no one behaves badly because of it. The fact is that places do exist where the Quran is interpreted to mean that women should only have the rights that their father/husband gives them, including being forced into marriages/sex against their will. I would like to stress that this is by no means a generalisation of Islam itself (and I also think it applies to other religions too), just people that use it as an excuse to oppress others. I hope this makes sense?

@ polka
I really like your ideas here. Thanks for the information and reminders. It's nice to think about this more. You seem to have a lot of knowledge. :)

@ Spiralling Shape
Cultures are usually the problem... Islam is a religion though. In Islam women are not supposed to be oppressed in any way. It's good to learn though, I admire your spirit. :)

Also, second class citizen- just the phrase- the point of view of many women from Saudia and Somalia might be much different and they could be offended to know people perceive them as such. The women I know from both places or that have visited are very strong and independent. They don't say anything wrong about either country either. So I guess we do have to see their perspective instead of just one political or maybe outlier perspective you know?

Coming from an Athiest-Western perspective I was always quite reluctant to form strong opinions about religion. I know a lot of Muslim women, living in West, that do enjoy the same rights and freedoms as I do. Recently however, a friend of mine lent me a book called Infidel by Aayan Hirsi Ali (look her up, she's a cool political figure) and after reading I definitely think that this is a valid article (does need a bit of referencing though). I'm not saying that Islam = opression of women, but I think that in cultures like Somalia and Saudi Arabia this is the reality that a lot of women face. They ARE considered second class in many places (and other cultures too!) and are encouraged to think that this is okay. I think that it's important to recognise this, and I don't think that it's racist to do so.

I dunno, I'm still pretty reluctant to voice my opinion on this subject because I do feel like I don't know enough, but there you go..,

I'm going to respectfully disagree with this article as a muslim woman and feminist. This sounds like a journal entry, and not much of an article. Islam is a free and peaceful religion. If this article represents how you see Islam...I am so very sorry for you and how your family has brought you up. I do hope that as you age your horizons will be broadened and your eyes more open. May I suggest a rewrite, with facts and sources.

Not too sure where you´re from but your title is seriously deceptive. This is not feminism from a muslim´s perspective, but it´s from your perspective. I´m a muslim and I majored in english, geography, biology and zoology. I am far from stupid and my dad is more than happy to let me study. As for arranged marriages, it is against Islaam to force a woman to get married. the wedding can only commence if the woman gives her consent. A woman needs three witnesses for that.
How many times is it stated in the Quraan that the best of men are those who treat their families well.
I´m sorry that wherever you are, people are not treating you as you should but don´t blame islaam for that. How many times are women mentioned in the Quraan. try reading Surah Nisaa, Surah Maryam, Surah Nahl. How beautifully did our Prophet (peace be upon him) treat his wives and his daughters.
If Islaam was so unfair to women, why would some of the most "educated", "modern" women revert to Islaam? Look at Lauren Booth (Tony Blair´s sister in law) and Yvonne Ridley (an absolute splendid journalist), and our sister Hollywood (sorry I don´t know your name :)) down there all accept Islam if Islam did not raise women on a pedestal? If we were not treated like queens in our religion?
I´m sorry if I´m rude. It was not my intention.

I agree with the comments stated that this has no facts and sources but you don't need me to tell you that anymore. I do agree though that somehow women in your country are being treated differently by men because I've learned this before in my Social Studies. However, I also don't get my facts straight with this particular topic that much because I suck somewhat in that subject.

It wasn't a good article but this would make a good blog if you think about it. :)