I wish you were aborted. - Comments

it was a bit unfair. sorry. i completely empathize with other situations like rape or incest or if the child will have down syndrome but even in all of those situations it's not right to kill a baby.

That argument's really an unfair one, because it only talks about those who wanted to have sex, and doesn't bring up other scenarios and complications. :/

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate through most of this, since I have no set belief. =P

totally agree with everything you said. :)
and skank just because he's a guy doesn't mean he can't understand and can't empathize with a woman who is going through something like this. If the woman didn't want to get pregnant especially if she's a teenager then there's a wonderful thing called abstinence to prevent that. it works very well. sex is designed to reproduce therefore if you don't want to reproduce then don't have sex. it's that simple.

I'd kick my Grandmother, too. Then, I would run like Hell.

Yeah. In a situation like that, you're either going to protect something that hasn't lived, or someone that you know and love. In the end, the irony is that you can adopt a baby that would've been aborted, if you chose your wife. >_>
I know that if I /did/ chose the baby, I'd be the most over-protective father that you've ever seen.

I like that game, though. It's interesting to see what's important to people.

Skank: but that 'sea monkey' is part of you. Flesh and blood and all.

Guitar Man: My grandma. I hate her.

Nah seriously though. I like these kinda things. Because you say one is worth the same as the other, but you'd think anyone who truly loved someone wouldn't put their lives at risk for the sake of something that doesn't even have the capacity to love yet. I mean, love of your life > sea monkey every time, right?

I feel horrible for the people who have to actually make these decisions, though.

Random tidbit, but something Skank. said reminded me.
There's a book I read that was set in the future; Abortion was illegal, but i was only like that because it had been agreed on that after a child turns 13 to the time they turn 18, the parents had the right to chose to 'abort' them, or not, judging on the behaviour of the child, and how they might benifit society in the future.
It was...an interesting read. Not totally on abortion...but, meh.

I don't think we can change anyone's opinions through words; only possibly through letting experience something for themselves. Even so, I like to see these debates. >_>

Skank.: That scenario reminded me of a game I used to play with people. "Would you rather kick a three-legged puppy, or your Grandmother?"
Much more of an issue, here. Though, in situations like the one you gave, I doubt everybody would be able to actually make a choice between the two.
I'd definately chose my wife.

Ohhh and I have another hypothetical senario (I love these):

Let's pretend for a second your married. Your wife (whom you love) is pregnant. But, you find out that she will definitely die if she gives birth. The baby will survive and be healthy and live a normal life yada yada ya, but your wife will die. There is no way around it. She can't have that baby without dying.

Now, would you want her to have an abortion, or not?

No see. The beginning of a human is formed. Human, yes. Living thing, yes.

Person? No.

I don't argue that it's not going to form into a human. It's just not a person. A person can feel and think and remember and love and hate and do all the things that make us what we are.

A fetus at the time of abortion cannot feel or think, because the brain isn't developed enough. If you can't think, you can't remember or love or hate.

There is no persona/personality/person.

And to be honest, if someone had to decide between killing a baby and aborting a fetus (hypothetical, bare with me), they'd abort the fetus. No matter how pro-life they are.

If it's "just as bad", why would they value a baby over a fetus?

if i thought like you think, that a fetus is not a human person. if i had that logic, i would agree with you.

but i don't. i beleive that once that sperm combines with the egg, another human is formed. what else could be formed?

you argue decent points, but i find that nothing is better than killing the child.

I believe it depends how far along the pregnancy is for it to count as two murders. Isn't it usually when the fetus is old enough to survive outside the womb?

When you've been raped, somehow managed to defy the laws of nature, gotten pregnant and given birth to a baby and raised that child without feeling any resentment to it, spoken to ever single woman who's been a victim of rape and concieved because of it, spoken to every woman who has ever had an abortion to find out why they chose to do so, come back, and then tell me abortion is wrong.

I wouldn't have an abortion. I'd rather people didn't. But I see why people do, and I think everyone should have the choice. It would be great if abortion wasn't needed. But in some cases it's necessarily. People act like girls go out, get pregnant and go "Oh no, I'm pregnant! Silly me! Oh well, better go have an abortion!" It's not like that. Sure, some girls might be that stupid, but most aren't.

Guitar Man is right. Things are completely different when they effect you personally.

It's all well and good for you to say abortion is wrong/selfish/unnecessary/murder, but you have never been pregnant, never will be pregnant, and never will be faced with such a decision.

People watch Juno far too much. "Oh just get it adopted!" It's not that easy, either. And if someone is raped, the pregnancy and birth itself is tramatizing. Possibly as life destroying as the rape itself.

to Guitar man:

yeah i figure if you're going by the whole branching universe stuff you'd be safe lol. hadn't thought of that, but this wasn't about physics or the science of time travel lol

To Skank:

If a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is charged with two murders. Why is that? its sort of contradictory isn't it?

and just because its law doesn't make it ok.

Remember we had slavery in this country for a long time. Was it okay just because it was legal? i think not.

Despite: No, but I Google'd it and realized that I've almost purchased it, before. It looks good.

Guitarman have you read "Rant: An Oral Biography of Buster Casey" by Chuck Palahniuk? If not, you should. I think you'd like it.

I think skank. pretty much said it all..

I'd probably somehow twist it into a compliment. I really would. I'm flattered in the oddest of ways.

If my Mother had a time-machine and aborted me...Well, I'm a firm believer in the time-paradox, so in the end, I think I'd be safe.
That, or there would be another reality branching off, and in at least one world, I'd be safe. In another, I'd be dead, and in maybe the fifteenth, I'd be a King.

Yes, I know that this was a serious rant, but I couldn't help it. >_>

All I can say is: Things are completely different when they effect you personally.

Right now I'm a person. :) If someone aborted me as a fetus, I wouldn't be a person then, so it's irrelevant. Wishing you aborted a person is wishing someone dead.

Aborting a fetus is just that. Aborting a fetus. Notice how the words kill/killing/murdering/baby/child/person don't come into that sentence? It's because it's not murder, not killing, and it aint a person.

Rape and accidents happen. Mother > fetus.

"It's not fair on the fetus because it won't get the chance to experience life" can always be counted with "It's not fair on the mother..."

Because she is a person and the fetus is an under-developed human. Big difference. :)

If it was murder it would be classed as murder. If the fetus was a baby it would be classed as a baby. It would be illegal everywhere.

And no offence, but you're a guy. You will never have to go through pregnancy. You will never get raped and end up pregnant. You will never use protection with a boyfriend and end up pregnant. You will never be stuck with something you don't want and have to make a difficult decision.

And you will never be called a murderer for doing what's best for you, because you mean more than the goddamn sea-monkey inside of you.

hmm, i've never heard itused before.

and i agree, its just stupid when people say "homophobia is gay"

If you said "I wish you were aborted" to me, I wouldn't be offended. It's not even a clever statement. It's more overused than 'homophobia is gay.'