California to De-Legalize Gay Marriage

druscilla; nonsense.:

Christians are supposed to think that divorce is wrong and a sin.
So I don't understand the "Christian" thinking behind this one at all.

It varies for some now.
Depends on the denomination, the modernization of it, and the interpretation.
I did a paper on this, and apparently, if you weren't gonna go all religious about it, they don't like gay marriage because they want to promote the 'nuclear family' or the mother-father-child thing.

Here's an excerpt from my article on gay parenting:

The first contention deals with the idea of the ‘nuclear’ family, also known as the traditional archetype with a mother, a father, and their children. The opposition point out the need for balance in the child’s life because each heterosexual parent socializes their children differently and children have to view this variation for themselves. They digress that if there is a disparity then the child will never learn to identify with the one sex that is absent from their life. This would seem valid, until one realizes that this issue has never been proved, and ignores many examples that contradict it. For example, there can be the relaxed sex type play that occurs in many homes, like the father being the cook or the mother being the breadwinner, or the anti-stereotypical careers of parents, like a pilot mother or a male secretary. These are instances that are less common and not always perceived by the public, but they happen anyway, amidst being against the ‘nuclear’ family paradigm. Another illustration would be single-parent homes, which provide the child with only one gender role to look up to. They aren’t conventional, but they’re real, and for the most part, they work out all the same.

Tyler Durden.:

Is it just me, or do Christians seem to be some of the biggest hypocrites ever?
They're not even supposed to be against homosexuality - just the act of gay sex.

^^I'm Christian, but I don't take some of the beliefs. The people that do, however, believe that homosexuality will eventually LEAD to gay sex. So yeah.

Tyler Durden.:

Is it just me, or do Christians seem to be some of the biggest hypocrites ever?
They're not even supposed to be against homosexuality - just the act of gay sex.

Is it me, or is that a rather large generalisation?
I do not think it is ever accurate to apply one characteristic to over two billion people.

^ Okay, I shouldn't have generalised like that.
Of course I didn't mean every single Christian on earth.

druscilla; nonsense.:

Christians are supposed to think that divorce is wrong and a sin.
So I don't understand the "Christian" thinking behind this one at all.

I think you've heard of Henri the VIII, he tried to convince the Pope to cancel his marriage with Catherine of Aragon it was common practice then, within the Catholic Church although divorce is not permitted the Pope can declare a marriage invalid.

I don't think Christianity itself has much to do with the law, but rather conservatory views, if you look at countries where same sex marriage is legal - in South Africa 79% of the population is Christian, in Belgium Roman Catholicism is the major religion with I think around 40% of the population, in Canada Catholics and Protestants also form the majority, while in China where 95% of the population claims to be atheist same sex marriage is not permitted.

This is a completely terrible situation. Rights should not be taken away from anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

And with that being said, you really should do your research on the case before you start saying things like
"Eighteen thousand gay couples are legally married in the state of California.
The state plans to forcibly divorce them."

The judges have been saying that those 18,000 marriages that occured in California when gay marriage was legalized will remain valid and still be recognized as legal.

And what the judges are deciding is not necessarily about rights. It's more about whether Prop. 8 was legal in the first place. There's a difference between making an amendment and a revision to the California Constitution. If they decide that Prop 8 would be making an amendment then the decision from November stands because that's the way the system works. There are however, different guidlines to making a revision to the state constitution, which a proposition would not cover.

Please, next time do your research before making rash statements like forcing thousands of people to divorce.

Geek.inthe.Pink:

This is a completely terrible situation. Rights should not be taken away from anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Plenty of people have rights taken away from them all the time. Governments do it on a regular basis for the cause of 'national security'. Sometimes, they do it legitimately; and it's inevitable that some people, such as prisoners or people detained due to mental illness, lose certain rights.

Though this has nothing to do with gay marriage. Still, 'rights should not be taken away from anyone' is too broad a term; think about it.

Bloodraine:

Geek.inthe.Pink:

This is a completely terrible situation. Rights should not be taken away from anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Plenty of people have rights taken away from them all the time. Governments do it on a regular basis for the cause of 'national security'. Sometimes, they do it legitimately; and it's inevitable that some people, such as prisoners or people detained due to mental illness, lose certain rights.

Though this has nothing to do with gay marriage. Still, 'rights should not be taken away from anyone' is too broad a term; think about it.

I realize that. I was more referring to marriage rights. If people are put in prison and their rights are taken away, it's usually for a decent reason. Of course, this is a general statement as well. Sadly, prisoners still have better access to health care than a majority of Americans...but I suppose that's beside the point.

I'll be sure to clarify myself next time.

Geek.inthe.Pink:

Bloodraine:

Geek.inthe.Pink:

This is a completely terrible situation. Rights should not be taken away from anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.

Plenty of people have rights taken away from them all the time. Governments do it on a regular basis for the cause of 'national security'. Sometimes, they do it legitimately; and it's inevitable that some people, such as prisoners or people detained due to mental illness, lose certain rights.

Though this has nothing to do with gay marriage. Still, 'rights should not be taken away from anyone' is too broad a term; think about it.

I realize that. I was more referring to marriage rights. If people are put in prison and their rights are taken away, it's usually for a decent reason. Of course, this is a general statement as well. Sadly, prisoners still have better access to health care than a majority of Americans...but I suppose that's beside the point.

I'll be sure to clarify myself next time.

Although people in prison are allowed to get married.
So someone who raped five kids and killed them can get married, but a guy person can't.
Hell, Sadie fucking Adkins from the Manson murders got married in prison.
But gay people can't.

druscilla; gutter.:

Although people in prison are allowed to get married.
So someone who raped five kids and killed them can get married, but a guy person can't.
Hell, Sadie fucking Adkins from the Manson murders got married in prison.
But gay people can't.

No one ever said the government was 100% fair.
That's why there are protests. People fighting to change the law.

Now, I could be wrong when I say this as it is 4 in the morning and I am tired, but I thought that once a law is passed only people who break the law AFTER the fact will be punished, not people before. Like, say, stealing a car was "legal: for years, and then one too many people steal a caar so they make it illegal. Anyone who breaks that law after will be persecuted, but not those who stole a car before that law was inacted.

So, wouldn't it be unfair to say that these people marriages don't exist when their marriages took place before the de-legalization of gay marriage? Or am I completely in left feild with this?

Tyler Durden.:

They're not even supposed to be against homosexuality - just the act of gay sex.

True, but gay marriage isn't the same as just being gay or having sex with someone of the same sex.
It's because marriage happens before God that it's a problem to them.

Sardonic Grin:

Now, I could be wrong when I say this as it is 4 in the morning and I am tired, but I thought that once a law is passed only people who break the law AFTER the fact will be punished, not people before. Like, say, stealing a car was "legal: for years, and then one too many people steal a caar so they make it illegal. Anyone who breaks that law after will be persecuted, but not those who stole a car before that law was inacted.

So, wouldn't it be unfair to say that these people marriages don't exist when their marriages took place before the de-legalization of gay marriage? Or am I completely in left feild with this?

You're right--in California, as well as in most states, the constitution prohibits de-facto laws. However, the Yes on 8 campaign has yet again decided that the constitution is completely irrelevant, so long as they can take one more step to making the entire LGBT community completely and totally miserable. What a wonderful world we live in.

Lestat:

Tyler Durden.:

They're not even supposed to be against homosexuality - just the act of gay sex.

True, but gay marriage isn't the same as just being gay or having sex with someone of the same sex.
It's because marriage happens before God that it's a problem to them.

But marriage doesn't have to happen before God. It can happen in the city hall, before a city official or office clerk or whoever. In the United States, marriage has nothing to religion, which is why I find it baffling that courts are even listening to what comes out of the Yes on 8 campaign's mouth.

Bloodraine:

Tyler Durden.:

Is it just me, or do Christians seem to be some of the biggest hypocrites ever?
They're not even supposed to be against homosexuality - just the act of gay sex.

Is it me, or is that a rather large generalisation?
I do not think it is ever accurate to apply one characteristic to over two billion people.

Thank you, Bloodraine. I'm a proud Christian, and heck, I don't even live in California, but why is everyone pegging this on Christians? There are other religions that are against homosexuality and gay marriage, you know. Ones who are definitely not as accepting as Christians are. Try going to Saudi Arabia and being gay. You'll get a wall dropped on top of you. I think it's a rather large jump to say that Christians are wholly responsible for Prop 8 going through. Prop 8 was decided by a vote. The California people voted for it. I'm sorry if it didn't turn out like everyone wanted it. I'm a little disappointed for the people who were affected by it, but it wasn't my vote. Voting is an American right. The right for people to decide what they want. Majority rules. I'm sorry. Myself and other conservatives lost this election. But you know what? I don't complain about it. We lost. Maybe we'll get another chance in 2012.

Christians aren't responsible for every single social injustice in the world. In fact, I think we've done a heck of a lot of good over the years.

Drover;;:

Ones who are definitely not as accepting as Christians are.

I'm a Christian, too. But I know of some Christians who would love nothing more than go out and shoot every homosexual to ever walk the face of the planet which is definitely no different from the Saudi Arabia thing you mentioned.

I know it's a generalization to say all Christians hate homosexuals because I don't and know ones that don't. However, it is a generalization that is widely embraced by America and especially young people as a whole.

Young adults and teenagers rarely want to identify themselves as Christians anymore because other people, when they hear it, generally think that they are judgment, discriminatory, and homophobic. And for that to be occurring, I think that some Christians somewhere must have fucked up really, really bad.

I don't know. Maybe it was the Salem Witch Trials. Or saying that 9/11 was the work of God to punish our Godless nation. Or George W. Bush "talking to God" and killing thousands of American soldiers. Or all the wars fought in the name of God. Or the protests at funerals of homosexuals and children who have died of AIDS. And the killing of abortion doctors. Somewhere in there I think the message of love and acceptance that all Christians are supposed to embody got lost.

Don't shoot me when you read this :roll:
But say me and my girlf [I wish] wanted to get married.
Couldn't we just get married outside California? And then go back?
Sorry for my n00b Britishness.
:crazy:

ARGH. Double. Even more n00bness.
:mrgun:

teapot asylum:

Don't shoot me when you read this :roll:
But say me and my girlf [I wish] wanted to get married.
Couldn't we just get married outside California? And then go back?
Sorry for my n00b Britishness.
:crazy:

That state is under no legal obligation to recognize the marriage, I believe.

I hate living in California because of this, I hope this new round of congressional talks has a good outcome in terms of legalizing it so everyone will finally be able to be married, While it would be nice and all, It frustrates me how much some people are so uncomfirtable with gays getting married (That they chose to donate so much money to the de-legalization cause to ban it), That gets me so angry.

I know that whoever is working on this in California decided that it should not have been on that ballot, that it is not an issue that could be voted on.

I don't know how that's going to affect anything...