California to De-Legalize Gay Marriage

@ Aly Dreamer Jones
Yes, that is what Prop 8 says. Same-sex marriage and civil unions are both illegal in California, they are also not recognized by the State no matter where they are performed. Most States have same-sex marriage illegal, only six States have legalized it. Though hopefully that number will increase to nine this November. I do agree that making same-sex marriage illegal is unconstitutional, there's no doubt about that. No matter how one may spin the issue, there is no way of getting around the fact it does violate the Constitution. However, this hasn't stopped States from making/keeping it illegal and it won't until SCOTUS steps in. Eventually, SCOTUS will have to weigh in on the subject of same-sex marriage, they can't avoid this subject forever. When SCOTUS does weigh in on it, it's either going to make or break the fight for marriage equality in this country. Until then, it's up to us as citizens to continue pushing for marriage equality.

How is this unconstitutional? Tell me a word-for-word sentence in which the constitution says, "Gay marriage is illegal and wrong."

@ Aly Dreamer Jones
I'm sorry, but was that post directed at me? I'm just a little confused if you were talking to me or not with that one. (: If so, you have completely misunderstood my posts and what I am trying to say to you. I am in no way defending the de-legalization of same-sex marriage, I would never defend something so horrible. As I said in my last post, I do agree with you that making same-sex marriage illegal is unconstitutional. The Constitution was created to protect Americans and our freedoms, this includes protecting us from discrimination like this. Making same-sex marriage illegal is discriminating homosexuals, it is sad that this is a legal form of discrimination within the U.S and something our government says is acceptable.

There is nothing in the Constitution that word-for-word defends making same-sex marriage illegal. But there is also nothing in the Constitution that word-for-word defends the legalization of same-sex marriage either. You won't get very far if you're asking for word-for-word statements within the Constitution because there is nothing within the Constitution that deals directly with marriage. Marriage is not directly mentioned within the Constitution so you will find nothing that word-for-word directly deals with it. However, there are amendments that do defend the legalization of same-sex marriage. Or, at the very least, it defends the rights, benefits, and protections that come with marriage that homosexuals are denied. The most commonly used argument is how anti-marriage equality laws violate the Fourteenth Amendment. Making same-sex marriage illegal takes protections away from homosexuals, therefore it violates the equal protections clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Making same-sex marriage illegal takes away the civil rights, benefits, protections, dignity, equality, and respect of gay Americans. It is unconstitutional no matter what argument the anti-gay side of things may choose to use. They can spin it anyway they wish, they cannot get around the fact it is unconstitutional. However, as I said, this has not stopped States from making/keeping same-sex marriage illegal anyway. There are States, no matter how few or many, that will continue to keep/make same-sex marriage illegal until SCOTUS steps in and confirms once again that marriage is a civil right and you cannot take those rights from citizens.

I don't agree with gay marriage but, I also don't agree with divorce, so I would probably say maybe de-legalize it if the majority of people choose to and let the 18,000 already married be. That would be like saying it's legal for a 16 year old to have a baby and then de-legalize it and kill the child. Ummm- that's pretty stupid.

@ LOVE1516
The couples have been allowed to stay married. The California Supreme Court stepped in eventually and ruled that it was unconstitutional for the government to force a couple to divorce and ruled that the 18,000 same-sex marriages performed were to be protected by the law and recognized by the law.

But with that said, why should same-sex marriage be made illegal just because the majority votes on it? That is wrong. It's unconstitutional. All laws like Prop 8 are unconstitutional. Voters cannot take away the civil rights of an entire group solely based upon something innate like sexuality is. Marriage deals with civil rights. To deny the ability to marry to same-sex couples, we have taken away their civil rights. How is that acceptable in the least bit? It doesn't matter if the majority does or doesn't vote for it to be illegal. The public does not and should not get to vote on whether or not someone gets their civil rights based upon something like sexuality.

Besides that, Prop 8 seems to be like it's on its last legs. Support for same-sex marriage has grown a lot in the last four years. In recent polls, it showed that same-sex marriage support in California was higher than it's ever been at 60% in support. So the majority no longer even wants this law. If Prop 8 should survive the U.S Supreme Court and be upheld for some reason, it will fall in the polls if we can successfully get it back to a vote in 2014. But it seems slim that it would survive the courts, that's just speculation though based on how the Justices seem to be reacting during the Prop 8 hearing done last Tuesday.

@Airi
If we are to let the government decide everything we do and they make gay marriages legal, abortions, and other stuff. Soon when the people have no voice, U.S.A will become like some countries that make you dress a certain way, men control everything (I'm not a psycho man hater), steal children to be forced into war. Racism is illegal but, some continue to be racist. Even though the Declaration of Independence said all men are created equal and what about abortions, The human life amendment prohibits abortions but, the majority of people fought for it to be legal. So I believe the people that get up and vote and whatever come's the highest well wins. Yeah abortion is now legal in some states because the majority, I think it's wrong but, I also think it's wrong to let the government dictate our every move. I like the government they help lock up bad people and do other wonderful things. I believe there also no reason to fight all over racism, gay marriages, and abortions. Someone always disagrees and there will always be different opinions, the civil war started because of slavery, should we start a war over gay marriages? No. Slavery is now illegal but, there still slavery. If abortion was illegal, the mother that didn't want the baby, would just jump out a two story window to get rid of it, they're still people that kill people over racism. Anyway my point is the majority fought for many things why should it be different this time? That was only my opinion and I'm not about to go into a whole argument about this topic you believe what you believe and I'll do the same.

@ LOVE1516
Why do you think you have the right to tell people they aren't allowed to get married?

@dru's war paint
I never said I had the right, I said the majority. Why are you scared the majority won't decide to let it happen? What happens, happens.....

@ LOVE1516
I don't think anyone has the right to vote on the rights of others. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the beginning of the Constitution.

Since the majority of Americans believe in same-sex marriage, I doubt the majority would vote against it . . .

@dru's war paint

Well if you're so confident in the majority.... Why are you even arguing? My opinion won't change either way.

@ LOVE1516
I'm confident in the majority, not the American government.

I also always argue against persecution and discrimination when I see it; it's in my nature.

(P.S. Abortion is legal because the U.S. Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional to make it illegal.)

@ LOVE1516
Comparing same-sex marriage to slavery is comparing apples to oranges. They're not comparable. They are on a different spectrum and aren't very comparable at all. I am confused by your post. So you're saying that if the majority wants it, it should happen regardless of whose rights it violates? So since we're comparing same-sex marriage to slavery, if the majority voted to enslave African Americans again, you would be totally okay with it despite the fact it violates their human rights? You really wouldn't see anything wrong with it and would say we shouldn't fight against it simply because the majority wanted it? I don't understand that. I don't see how you could be okay with something that violates another person's rights, be it human or civil rights. It's wrong. It's injustice and in my eyes, every injustice is worth fighting against and stopping. We shouldn't roll over and accept injustice just because the majority may want it.

Slavery is wrong because it violates a person's humans rights. We shouldn't re-legalize slavery if the majority wants it because in doing so, we would be violating the human rights of an innocent group of people. It is wrong. Just as banning same-sex marriage is wrong. Banning same-sex marriage violates the civil rights of LGBTQ people. We should not allow the majority to step on the rights of the minority and unjustly hurt them. Why should we? Are the minority less deserving of their rights and protections under the law than the majority? As a lesbian, what makes me undeserving of my civil rights that you receive as a heterosexual? What makes me undeserving of having my civil rights protected like you have yours protected? I don't see why my rights should be put up to a public vote and be taken away from me by the majority.

I'm not trying to argue with you at all, rather I'm trying to engage you in a friendly debate. That is what these threads such as this one are used for, friendly debates between users. If you don't want to, you're free to not respond to me or anyone else challenging your opinion, You can ignore the replies you get to your comments if you so choose. I'm sorry if anything I said offended you in anyway, it wasn't my intent and I hope you don't take my words negatively. ^^

Yes I know their debates but, certain topics make me frustrated:) I don't hate people for stating their opinion though, because believe me I don't stop from stating mine...

First I'm not against same sex, okay well I am-ish but, not fully.. I don't hate people that are gay considering I know some awesome people that are gay and some of my family members are gay, I do let them know I don't agree and we get along fine......

I don't argue much on this topic, I don't care to much no bodies really getting hurt or at least killed, so I'm not too bothered by it..

I'm just going to say, it's my opinion and I never change my opinion, in less they have cold hard proof, probably why I get in trouble for arguing so much XD and I do believe the majority should choose because, what if you let the government choose and they didn't choose your opinion, You'd be pretty P-off, if you say just make it legal, my opinion I wouldn't vote at all.. But anyway if you say just let it be legal, that will never happen because there will always be someone who wants it different or just to start a fight so that they can do something..

Sorry if I seem like a b*tch on the abortion topic but, that's something I don't take lightly, for reasons...

@ LOVE1516
But banning same-sex marriage does hurt people. Maybe not physically like slavery would, but it hurts people mentally, which is just as bad. By being against same-sex marriage and banning it, you* are sending a message to people that being gay is not okay and that people should be ashamed of it. Which is simply not true. You are not only taking away a person's rights (which is a very harmful thing to do itself), but you're also taking away their dignity. You are forcing them to become second class citizens because of an innate thing like sexuality. You are telling them they are inferior to heterosexuals. You are telling them that they are undeserving of the same rights, protections, and dignity that heterosexuals receive. You are harming them in so many ways. I am an American just like you. I am a Californian just like my fellow citizens who are heterosexual. But I am a second class citizen according to my government courtesy of laws like Prop 8. I do not have the same dignity you have, I have had it taken away from me. I and every other LGBTQ person in State's like California where it is banned are being punished for something we were born with and for something that harms no one. But I have faith that'll all change in California very soon. I have faith that'll all change across the U.S in the next few years.

I don't see how you can't be bothered by people having their rights ripped away from them. Because that is exactly what laws like Prop 8 does. Prop 8 is even more cruel than your average law banning same-sex marriage, because we had our rights given back to us and had them heartlessly ripped away from us due to people's hatred and bigotry for us. It's not okay and it should bother people. Whenever someone has their rights violated or taken away, it should bother people. We shouldn't just be shrugging our shoulders and say discriminating minorities is okay.

I do hope in time you will change your opinion in time. I do hope you will open your heart and see why taking away an innocent person's rights is wrong and something worth standing up against. I really do mean this and I hope you don't take that negatively (because I mean it in a nice way so I do hope it comes across that way), I hope everyone who is against same-sex marriage or who believes the majority should be allowed to hurt minorities unchecked will someday see why we shouldn't be doing either of those things.

*you is used in a universal way and in no way directed at you in specific

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals just gave Prop 8 the final blow!

After five years, Proposition 8 is officially dead and gone. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals has lifted the stay on the law, same-sex marriages are resuming today in California which makes us the 13th State to legalize. Originally, the courts were supposed to wait 25 days after the Supreme Courts ruling but they decided to lift it immediately instead. From what I've heard, the first marriage is set to take place here in San Francisco in 20 minutes or so.

I'm so ecstatic, Mibba. I can't even explain how happy this makes me. It's finally a reality. I'm so happy this hateful law is finally gone. It's some pretty nice timing too since SF Pride starts today haha. Perfect timing right there. I'm really quite proud of my State. I knew we could overcome this.

I just realized I made this thread four years ago and it has come full circle. I love that.

@ bateman

bateman:

Is it just me, or do Christians seem to be some of the biggest hypocrites ever?
They're not even supposed to be against homosexuality - just the act of gay sex.

Some Christians are. Not all Christians are against homosexuality. I find it a little rude.

druscilla the misfit:

Christians are supposed to think that divorce is wrong and a sin.
So I don't understand the "Christian" thinking behind this one at all.

I agree. But I think they'd be thinking that homosexuality is a bigger issue than divorce. Or that's what I would guess.

@ treat02
The idea of one sin being bigger than another because Man says so is very problematic.

@ druscilla the misfit
Agreed, but honestly, I'm not sure what they were thinking. That was a wild guess.