Abortion

Original thread ishere deleted.

Abortion.
For or against?
Why?
Do you think it's okay only in certain situations?

Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy.

The Strokes:

druscilla; young.:

The Strokes:

The mental repercussions... there are just as many, if not more, with abortion.

If you're referring to "Post-Abortion Syndrome", it doesn't exist.
The American Psychological Association says there is absolutely no evidence to back that a single abortion can cause mental problems, although you may experience some depression and whatnot afterward. That has to do with hormone changes that come from no longer being pregnant, the same hormone changes that can have the same affect on women who carry a child to term and deliver it.

I'm not talking about Post-abortion syndrome. I'm talking about the mental mind screw you put yourself through after an abortion. You can't change your mind, you have killed something. What if a month later, you think, "Maybe that I shouldn't have...". It messes with your brain something awful.
Depression and whatnot... yes, it might be caused by hormone changes, but it's made worse by the knowledge that you killed something that you created, you killed a little piece of you. You don't feel that way after giving birth, and in fact, when you give birth, there's hundreds of different hormones and endorphins released, to help you bond with your child. If you don't keep the child, yes, that would hurt, and might depress you, but you'd be able to comfort yourself with the thought that they were living in a better situation than the one you could offer.

Most women report feeling "relieved" after an abortion, actually.

And giving up a child would mentally fuck with me a lot more than getting an abortion would.

I couldn't find anything that recorded the exact feelings of women right after they had an abortion, but I did find these:

from the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health. "An analysis of psychological stress showed that those who terminated their pregnancy had experience no greater levels of stress or anxiety than had the other teenagers at the time of the pregnancy test, and they were no more likely to have psychological problems two years later."

From the American Psychological Association. "Having 1 abortion was positively associated with higher global self-esteem, particularly feelings of self-worth, capableness, and not feeling one is a failure."

So yeah, I'd say that abortion isn't as much of a psychological terror as some people would like to believe. (Women can deal with the consequences of their decisions!--shocking, I know.)

Quoting from the other thread:

--

The Strokes:

A massive amount of endorphins are released when you give birth. When you get an abortion? A fair amount of pain, stress, and discomfort.

Ask any woman who's given birth and she's likely to tell you that she was actually in some kind of state of discomfort, pain stress. Talk to a woman who's had a c-section. Usually the woman cannot even hold the baby straight after having a cesarean birth because she's recovering from having a part of her body sliced open.

Birth is not always a joy like you make it out to be.

Of course, it can be a happy experience. But having an abortion can also be happy for the woman - a relief. Women are not always hysterically emotional creatures - we can deal with what comes our way. If I want an abortion, then surely that means I DON'T want a kid. If I get rid of it, that's a fucking relief. Not all women will feel the same though. But don't just group ALL women together and say that's what they'll feel.

Here's an article I came across that I found very interesting to read which ties in with the topic of what some women feel after an abortion. Sure, the article is opinion based, but nonetheless the woman who wrote it obviously didn't feel pain or stress or discomfort, like you think all women feel.

A snippet:
It wasn't the "hardest decision I have ever had to make". It was actually really, really easy.
The only thing I felt afterwards was intense relief.
Does this mean I enjoyed it? Of course not.
It just means that I'm honest.

(For the record, I don't really know if I'd ever have an abortion if I was in that position - it's just for argument's sake).

Whoooooa

The other thread should not have been deleted. Only chat threads get deleted at 200 pages. I'll talk to Dujo and see if there is any way to get the other one back with all our discussions.

EDIT: Nevermind, we can't. Sorry.

Well, let's get the ball rolling.
I have two interesting issues relating to abortion that I've been meaning to mention for a while.

Proposed abortion TV adverts in the UK
Good thing? Bad thing?

In La Rioja, Spain, a school has shown students videos which contain images of Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero alongside aborted foetuses. Right? Wrong? Blatant indoctrination?
Original article here, English version here.
Anyone interested can watch the presentation here. I have done, it's very graphic. The context to this all being Spain's new abortion law and the fact that the Catholic church still holds large influence in Spain. I find trying to paint Zapatero as a baby killer in this way horrendous, but that's just me. I support the new law, too.

Bloodraine:

Well, let's get the ball rolling.
I have two interesting issues relating to abortion that I've been meaning to mention for a while.

Proposed abortion TV adverts in the UK
Good thing? Bad thing?.

I don't see anything wrong with it personally.
I mean, I can see why people wouldn't like the idea since it's a touchy subject, but whatever you think of abortion, if it's a legal service then people have the right to know about it.
Especially because a lot of young girls may not know how to go about getting an abortion. If you're a teenager you might not know where to get it, if it's free or not etc. so they might be too scared to find out.

But then again, I don't like the idea of it being promoted. It's a bit weird promoting abortion. Like I'm pro-choice but I wouldn't say that abortion is the best idea/choice.

^I don't think the idea would be to promote abortion as such, but rather educate people on it.

Like you say, abortion is a touchy subject - for people on both sides of the coin - and it'd be interesting to see how this goes... I certainly can't think of it happening here in Australia any time soon. I think people do need to be educated on it, but I can see it having some very negative backlash.

I don't like the idea of abortions (meaning I don't think I'd get one), but I'm perfectly okay with women who get them. I mean, it's a choice between a rock and a hard place. You could either have an abortion and risk regretting it, or you could not have one and still risk regretting it. It's a personal choice, and I don't think that the government should have any say in it, other than to put regulations in place to make it safer.

squiggles:

^I don't think the idea would be to promote abortion as such, but rather educate people on it.

Like you say, abortion is a touchy subject - for people on both sides of the coin - and it'd be interesting to see how this goes... I certainly can't think of it happening here in Australia any time soon. I think people do need to be educated on it, but I can see it having some very negative backlash.

I agree.

I don't think, honestly, that there is enough focus on abortion - in the countries where it's legal, of course. I think that educating people on abortion would be very helpful, though it would probably cause some controversy.

I'm still very much pro choice. Like the person above me said, you could not get an abortion and then regret it. And who wants to regret bringing their child into the world?

Jesse;:

I don't like the idea of abortions (meaning I don't think I'd get one), but I'm perfectly okay with women who get them. I mean, it's a choice between a rock and a hard place. You could either have an abortion and risk regretting it, or you could not have one and still risk regretting it. It's a personal choice, and I don't think that the government should have any say in it, other than to put regulations in place to make it safer.

Agreed. I don't think anyone but the individual involved should have a say in what the decision is.

Oh Snap!:

Jesse;:

I don't like the idea of abortions (meaning I don't think I'd get one), but I'm perfectly okay with women who get them. I mean, it's a choice between a rock and a hard place. You could either have an abortion and risk regretting it, or you could not have one and still risk regretting it. It's a personal choice, and I don't think that the government should have any say in it, other than to put regulations in place to make it safer.

Agreed. I don't think anyone but the individual involved should have a say in what the decision is.

Agreed. :)

Googling information about abortion myths.
And Focus on the Family includes so much bullshit [that has been scientifically proven wrong] on abortion that I felt absolutely horrible for anyone considering abortion that stumbled across that site.
Scaring someone into carrying a pregnancy to term is disgusting.
So is lying.

"Recent public opinion polling indicates a majority of Americans support additional limits on abortion, including bans on late term abortions. They are not comfortable with the virtually unrestricted access it currently enjoys."

If our discussions are any example, this is complete and utter BS.

I agree with you (For once :tehe:), scaring people into carrying a pregnancy is repulsive. Convince people to come to their own decision. Fear is never a good tool.

The Strokes:

"Recent public opinion polling indicates a majority of Americans support additional limits on abortion, including bans on late term abortions. They are not comfortable with the virtually unrestricted access it currently enjoys."

If our discussions are any example, this is complete and utter BS.

I agree with you (For once :tehe:), scaring people into carrying a pregnancy is repulsive. Convince people to come to their own decision. Fear is never a good tool.

I think most people on Mibba are liberal. I'm not sure that our ratio is equivalent to that of America as a whole.

However, America doesn't have "virtually unrestricted access" and late-term abortions are banned except in the case of the mother's health.

Abortion is wrong, especially for those of white skin color. Not because were better or anything, it's just shown that white babies go like hot cakes when put up for adoption so there is no need for abortion. As for abortion in the circumstances of all groups abortion is still wrong. PUT THE KID UP FOR ADOPTION! AS for all that it's my body crap, the baby, a HUMAN BEING, has the RIGHT to live. I'm sorry that you spread your legs and got knocked up but that doesn't give you the right to destroy another life when you can put it up for adoption or leave it at a police department or firestation. As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.

Faceless_time:

Abortion is wrong, especially for those of white skin color. Not because were better or anything, it's just shown that white babies go like hot cakes when put up for adoption so there is no need for abortion. As for abortion in the circumstances of all groups abortion is still wrong. PUT THE KID UP FOR ADOPTION! AS for all that it's my body crap, the baby, a HUMAN BEING, has the RIGHT to live. I'm sorry that you spread your legs and got knocked up but that doesn't give you the right to destroy another life when you can put it up for adoption or leave it at a police department or firestation. As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.

1. Your commenst on skin colour give me the creeps. Has it occured to you that more "white" children get adopted because the majority of children are white? Flawed logic.

2. Note that it is babies. Cute little ickle babies. That's fine when they're young but what if they don't get adopted? The older you are in the care system, the lesser likely you are to be adopted. And in the adoption stakes, if you no longer like the child, tough as it may be, some are put back into care. The adoption system is not perfect: my own father was adopted and he's screwed up. After being adopted, he left my mother, twice, after me and my sibling was born.

Also, if we look into the psychological sides of things. Children who are institutionalised are more likely to show signs of the PDD cycle which can cause emotionless and severe psychological problems including learning difficulties in later life.

3. Don't you dare assume this is all the woman's fault. You make it sound whomever gets an abortion is automatically Slutty McGee. There are so many reasons why women get abortions in which you haven't even considered.

4. And have you even considered the psychological effect on giving birth to a rape or an incestous child? The one concieved in incest is more likely to have genetic defects which is unfair on the child. The one concieved in rape and those who feel forced to carry the child to the end will cause undeserved turmoil to the rape victim. I mean, if you are robbed, you can at least start to get on with your life. With carrying a child for nine months, I don't exactly see how it is beneficial for mother or child. After all, finding out you were put up for adoption because your mother got raped...not exactly a joyeous moment, huh?

5. You promote the dumping of children? That makes total sense. I don't want this child, so I'll give birth to it but leave it on a step and maybe someone will see it.

Faceless_time:

Abortion is wrong, especially for those of white skin color. Not because were better or anything, it's just shown that white babies go like hot cakes when put up for adoption so there is no need for abortion. As for abortion in the circumstances of all groups abortion is still wrong. PUT THE KID UP FOR ADOPTION! AS for all that it's my body crap, the baby, a HUMAN BEING, has the RIGHT to live. I'm sorry that you spread your legs and got knocked up but that doesn't give you the right to destroy another life when you can put it up for adoption or leave it at a police department or firestation. As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.

Adoption is not always the best option.

"As for all that it's my body crap," I see this remark as incredibly close minded. Would you want your body used for 9 months by something you don't want, and then would you want to deal with the pain of giving away a child that you had given birth to and bonded with? This isn't Juno, this is real life. Situations like that are few and far between.

The human being that is created does not legally have the right to life until it is born and takes it's first breath. That's the law. Many people disagree with this and believe life starts at conception, but the law disagrees.

I highly doubt skin color matters when considering an abortion vs. an adoption. If you don't want your body used for nine months, then abortion is the better option. It all depends on the person, and what kind of strength they have. (Abortion is just as difficult as adoption, do not belittle either.)

Faceless_time:

Abortion is wrong, especially for those of white skin color. Not because were better or anything, it's just shown that white babies go like hot cakes when put up for adoption so there is no need for abortion. As for abortion in the circumstances of all groups abortion is still wrong. PUT THE KID UP FOR ADOPTION! AS for all that it's my body crap, the baby, a HUMAN BEING, has the RIGHT to live. I'm sorry that you spread your legs and got knocked up but that doesn't give you the right to destroy another life when you can put it up for adoption or leave it at a police department or firestation. As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.

Okay, yeah, skin colour thing was creepy. Sort of like "we're white! We must breed!"

I know you didn't mean it like that by the way, but that's sort of how it reads to me...

Forcing a woman to carry to term a baby that is the result of rape seems almost to be putting some of the blame on her shoulders - not only does she have to live with what happened to her, possibly suffer from conditions like PTSD* but she has to wait nine months to have a baby she doesn't want? Right... what about the rapist? If you can find something comparable to do to him, then I might understand. Until then it will always strike me as a creepy, slightly misogynistic argument.

*PTSD = Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Faceless_time:

Abortion is wrong, especially for those of white skin color. Not because were better or anything, it's just shown that white babies go like hot cakes when put up for adoption so there is no need for abortion.

Depends on where you are.
I read some article on adoption in the Guardian's magazine some while ago. Apparently, in Britain, you're not supposed to adopt outside of your own ethnic group. So white people can only adopt white children. It seemed hidelously extreme, actually. They interviewed a woman with a Dutch grandfather who was apparently disallowed from adopting anything other than a part-Dutch baby.

I probably need to do some more research on this, because it does sound ridiculous.

Faceless_time:

As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.

Again, this probably needs more research, but children born of incest are likely to have a lot of mental/physical problems as a result. So it's not that simple. You can't really group them as a 'normal' child because the circumstances aren't normal.