Abortion

Most of you here have very good points and I respect them though I am pro life. This sounds very harsh, but most women (unless raped and became pregnant, which is very uncommon) had the choice to have sex in the first place and take the chances (small or not) that they would get pregnant. Why should an innocent life be wasted because of one bad choice?

Also, if you choose to get an abortion it can have effects on future pregnancies, such as higher chance of having a miscarriage.

This is simply what I believe and I know there are some exceptions to it.

PerfectSecond:

Most of you here have very good points and I respect them though I am pro life. This sounds very harsh, but most women (unless raped and became pregnant, which is very uncommon) had the choice to have sex in the first place and take the chances (small or not) that they would get pregnant. Why should an innocent life be wasted because of one bad choice?

Also, if you choose to get an abortion it can have effects on future pregnancies, such as higher chance of having a miscarriage.

This is simply what I believe and I know there are some exceptions to it.

The problem with that argument is how you define life. If you see life as beginning at conception, then yes, abortion is killing an innocent life. If you see life as beginning at birth, then abortion is not killing an innocent life.

Yes, if you're pregnant, you made the choice to have sex, but I don't think everyone who has sex is reckless and promiscuous, and completely ignorant of the possibilities/consequences of sex. Sometimes you just don't consider the consequences until you're faced with it. I think in that case, it is better to consider adoption if you're not ready for a child, but that's not always an option, nor is it always the better option.

If a woman makes the choice to have sex, then she should be able to make the choice on having a baby.

Someone may be pro choice, but that doesn't automatically mean they'll get an abortion.

I think you both misunderstood what I meant. I did not intend you for you think that I believe pro choice people will go get abortions. I'm not stupid.

I believe that life begins when the brain is able to function, which is approximately 40 days after concenption. I also did not say that people who have sex are reckless or permiscuous. Many of my friends have sex almost every week. Three of which are pregnant. I did not mean for you both to misunderstand me.

Faceless_time:

As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.

I had a friend who was raped and became pregnant from it. I also have multiple friends that have been raped and (fortunately) did not get pregnant. I also have a very close relative who was raped for years by her father.

This is one of the most ignorant, heartless, cold statements I have ever heard in my life.

You don't care about the person carrying the fetus, just the fetus itself?

What if your best friend were raped and got pregnant and was emotionally fucked and wanted an abortion? You would just tell her to suck it up for nine months and deal?

PerfectSecond:

Most of you here have very good points and I respect them though I am pro life. This sounds very harsh, but most women (unless raped and became pregnant, which is very uncommon) had the choice to have sex in the first place and take the chances (small or not) that they would get pregnant. Why should an innocent life be wasted because of one bad choice?

Also, if you choose to get an abortion it can have effects on future pregnancies, such as higher chance of having a miscarriage.

This is simply what I believe and I know there are some exceptions to it.

If you can't trust a woman with a choice, how can you trust her with a child?

i think abortion should only be an option to a mother/woman/girl who is going to die because of the baby, and... well I'm not so sure about a raped woman/girl.

otherwise, it was the half the girl's fault and half the guy's fault for this. they either:
1. were drinking
2. forgot birth control
3. were "just hooking up"

no one wants to be pregnant while single. so guess what the best condom/birth control in the whole wide world is?....Abstinence

I don't know why someone would have sex before they're married now-a-days anyway. Because now, it's almost certain you can contract a disease from your partner. If you waited, and your husband/wife waited too, neither of you would get a disease because the only people you'll be having sex with is, hopefully, your spouse.

and you know what? if you do get pregnant and are single, do the kid a favor by not killing it and put him/her up for adoption or give him/her to a family who's been trying but can't have a baby, has a stable income and home. sure it will be tough but in the end people will respect you for the selfless act you did... especially the Church and me :)

kllyqtpie15:

i think abortion should only be an option to a mother/woman/girl who is going to die because of the baby, and... well I'm not so sure about a raped woman/girl.

otherwise, it was the half the girl's fault and half the guy's fault for this. they either:
1. were drinking
2. forgot birth control
3. were "just hooking up"

no one wants to be pregnant while single. so guess what the best condom/birth control in the whole wide world is?....Abstinence

I don't know why someone would have sex before they're married now-a-days anyway. Because now, it's almost certain you can contract a disease from your partner. If you waited, and your husband/wife waited too, neither of you would get a disease because the only people you'll be having sex with is, hopefully, your spouse.

and you know what? if you do get pregnant and are single, do the kid a favor by not killing it and put him/her up for adoption or give him/her to a family who's been trying but can't have a baby, has a stable income and home. sure it will be tough but in the end people will respect you for the selfless act you did... especially the Church and me :)

So, there are only those three ways a woman got pregnant if she wasn't raped? You can't be on birth control that failed? That's completely impossible? You can't be in a loving relationship with someone? You have to be a loose slut that is spreading her legs at parties?

Maybe people have sex before marriage because there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe they want to feel intimacy with their partner and don't think a stupid piece of paper has the right to tell them "it's okay now". I lost my virginity to my fiance. I believed we would get married and I love her. I loved her then. Yes, I thought she would be the only person I slept with. Do I regret not waiting until we were married to have sex? Never.

And it's not "almost certain" you will contract a disease from your partner if you practice safe sex. Not everyone who has sex before marriage is a herpes infested whore.

And we aren't talking about killing children, by the way. We're talking about ending a pregnancy. My mother was adopted. The selfless act her biological mother committed lead to my mom being raped for seven years. Yes, I'm glad she's alive but that's not exactly a good thing, getting raped for seven years. It's not like everyone who is adopted has a life of fucking sunshine and rainbows. And if you get an abortion, it's not like the fetus knows what it's missing out on anyway.

druscilla's journal.:

So, there are only those three ways a woman got pregnant if she wasn't raped? You can't be on birth control that failed? That's completely impossible? You can't be in a loving relationship with someone? You have to be a loose slut that is spreading her legs at parties?

Maybe people have sex before marriage because there's nothing wrong with it. Maybe they want to feel intimacy with their partner and don't think a stupid piece of paper has the right to tell them "it's okay now". I lost my virginity to my fiance. I believed we would get married and I love her. I loved her then. Yes, I thought she would be the only person I slept with. Do I regret not waiting until we were married to have sex? Never.

And it's not "almost certain" you will contract a disease from your partner if you practice safe sex. Not everyone who has sex before marriage is a herpes infested whore.

And we aren't talking about killing children, by the way. We're talking about ending a pregnancy. My mother was adopted. The selfless act her biological mother committed lead to my mom being raped for seven years. Yes, I'm glad she's alive but that's not exactly a good thing, getting raped for seven years. It's not like everyone who is adopted has a life of fucking sunshine and rainbows. And if you get an abortion, it's not like the fetus knows what it's missing out on anyway.

I'd been waiting for someone to say that! I don't believe sex before marriage is wrong and just because you have it does not make you a slut! Good for you!

I know that adoption doesn't always turn out very well (such as your mother; I am deeply sorry that that happened to her), but not every family will be horrible either. I have friends who are adopted and have loving parents. Also, just because a woman made a choice to have sex does not necessarily mean that she can't be trusted with a baby. My pregnant friends are having their babies and I know all three will take very good care of them. Some girls may be too young or unable to take care of their babies for some reason, but there is always adoption as an option, though it is usually a tough, heart-breaking dicision. it may be best for the baby though, as long as the baby was adopted through a trustworthy organization with plenty of background checks into the potential parents.

kllyqtpie15:

I don't know why someone would have sex before they're married now-a-days anyway. Because now, it's almost certain you can contract a disease from your partner. If you waited, and your husband/wife waited too, neither of you would get a disease because the only people you'll be having sex with is, hopefully, your spouse.

That argument doesn't really work.
Total abstinence before marriage will not eradicate STDs.
Just because you're married, does not guarantee you will not have an affair and get an STD that way. Just because you're married, does not make you immune from rape, one can still get an STD that way. And so on.

The most obvious solution would be promoting better sexual health. More access to condoms, that sort of thing. But oh no, that isn't a good idea.

kllyqtpie15:

I don't know why someone would have sex before they're married now-a-days anyway. Because now, it's almost certain you can contract a disease from your partner. If you waited, and your husband/wife waited too, neither of you would get a disease because the only people you'll be having sex with is, hopefully, your spouse.

That seems a lot backwards to me. People are having sex younger now. Not waiting until marriage, and there are plenty of couples out there with children who aren't married.

Marriage means a lot less now.

Marriage doesn't protect you from STD's. If you love a person enough to have sex with them... go get checked for diseases. Not everyone who has sex is playing fast and loose with their body.

Dru: :arms: :arms: :arms:

kllyqtpie15:

i think abortion should only be an option to a mother/woman/girl who is going to die because of the baby, and...

You either give the choice to all women or none at all. Restricting abortions severely to only those who are going to die because of the fetus is very cruel. In fact, restricting abortions altogether is cruel, in my opinion. Why should a woman be forced to carry a fetus she doesn't want just because other people who have nothing to do with her say so?

kllyqtpie15:

otherwise, it was the half the girl's fault and half the guy's fault for this. they either:
1. were drinking
2. forgot birth control
3. were "just hooking up"

And do you think those are the only reasons? Women who get abortions are not just women who go about getting drunk, forgetting contraception and sleeping with strangers. Contraception can fail, accidental pregnancies can occur.

I think the stereotype of a woman who gets an abortion as being a drunken, forgetful and 'easy' person is quite skewed.

kllyqtpie15:

I don't know why someone would have sex before they're married now-a-days anyway.

Well, I'll tell you why. Because there's nothing wrong with having sex. It's instinctual. Sex isn't just for married people.

kllyqtpie15:

and you know what? if you do get pregnant and are single, do the kid a favor by not killing it and put him/her up for adoption or give him/her to a family who's been trying but can't have a baby, has a stable income and home. sure it will be tough but in the end people will respect you for the selfless act you did... especially the Church and me :)

Ah, the old adoption card.

You know, adoption is a CHOICE just like abortion is a CHOICE. Women shouldn't be forced to go through pregnancies they don't want, only to be forced AGAIN to put it up for adoption. Because, you know, apparently having an abortion makes you a self centered, stupid woman who's an easy slut. Yeah... right. :|

And with adoption, most of the time you cannot pick and choose who the baby goes to. Often it's fostered out to a home, or it's adopted by people you don't know. You can have arranged adoptions, yes, but most people put it up for adoption and don't know who it's going to. Sometimes children NEVER get adopted. So don't try to paint adoption as some great, fantastic life saver of an option. It's a choice just like abortion is a choice.

You make the assumption that women who have abortions should not be respected, and it's only women who go through with pregnancy that should have respect. I think that's disgusting and low. Women who have abortions are people too, and they're not bad people who don't deserve respect. In my country, abortion is legal so it's not like they're breaking the law, are they?

In my opinion, women who have abortions should also be respected. Though it is against my beliefs, that was probably one of the hardest problems she has faced up to that point and it is cruel to talk about or be mean to that person. They just had to lose their baby; be a bit considerate.

Maybe some day there will some kind of technology that could keep you from getting pregnant 100% if you take it before/after sex. (I heard there was this one pill, almost 100% though, that simply killed off the sperm after you take it. Sounds like a good idea to me, personally.) That way, eventually, abortions wouldn't be necessary (for the most part) and may become obsolete completely.

PerfectSecond:

In my opinion, women who have abortions should also be respected. Though it is against my beliefs, that was probably one of the hardest problems she has faced up to that point and it is cruel to talk about or be mean to that person. They just had to lose their baby; be a bit considerate.

Maybe some day there will some kind of technology that could keep you from getting pregnant 100% if you take it before/after sex. (I heard there was this one pill, almost 100% though, that simply killed off the sperm after you take it. Sounds like a good idea to me, personally.) That way, eventually, abortions wouldn't be necessary (for the most part) and may become obsolete completely.

Abortion takes a lot of strength. I can see it being harder than adoption for some women.

I thought the morning-after pill/emergency contraceptive pill worked 100% of the time by inducing your period?

^I don't think it's 100% effective. I don't think any morning after pill / emergency pill / contraceptive pill is.

But I'd say the chances of it failing flat out is pretty rare.

The Strokes:

I thought the morning-after pill/emergency contraceptive pill worked 100% of the time by inducing your period?

Depends on how quickly you take it. If implantation has already occurred, you'll remain pregnant. It's about 75% effective.

kllyqtpie15:

i think abortion should only be an option to a mother/woman/girl who is going to die because of the baby, and... well I'm not so sure about a raped woman/girl.

Would you want a reminder that you had been raped growing inside you for nine months?

kllyqtpie15:

otherwise, it was the half the girl's fault and half the guy's fault for this. they either:
1. were drinking
2. forgot birth control
3. were "just hooking up"

There's only three options? You can be in a loving relationship. You could be raped. There are more than three ways to become pregnant.

kllyqtpie15:

no one wants to be pregnant while single. so guess what the best condom/birth control in the whole wide world is?....Abstinence

I don't know why someone would have sex before they're married now-a-days anyway. Because now, it's almost certain you can contract a disease from your partner. If you waited, and your husband/wife waited too, neither of you would get a disease because the only people you'll be having sex with is, hopefully, your spouse.

Sex is a choice. You're allowed to do it before you're married. And it's not "almost certain" you'll contract a disease from your partner.

kllyqtpie15:

and you know what? if you do get pregnant and are single, do the kid a favor by not killing it and put him/her up for adoption or give him/her to a family who's been trying but can't have a baby, has a stable income and home. sure it will be tough but in the end people will respect you for the selfless act you did... especially the Church and me :)

Pregnant and single? What if you want to keep the baby? Who's to say a pregnant and single mother doesn't have a stable income and home?

Not all children put up for adoption actually get adopted. If they did, there would be no such thing as care homes. But there is, and there's already barely enough of them to care for them all. If no one had abortions, that would be even more children without families. Is that really what you want?

I do believe that in certain circumstances abortions are okay. That does not mean that having an abortion just to have an abortion is okay. A victim of rape, I can understand. In the other thread Dru mentioned something about artificial insemination. If you plan to only have one child, but have more than one possible fetus inserted, you may terminate the ones that are left. That's fine too.

I feel that I'm not making sense anymore. So I do believe that I will shut up now.

I think that abotion as previously stated is a choice, and can sometimes be the best choice.
Like, if the kid is going to have a shitty life because their mom is a crack head, a prostitute, or just couldn't support them.
But I'm NOT saying that the only people who get abortions are like that^
I'm just saying that these are instances that it's better for the potential child.
I mean, I think that anyone should have the option. It doesn't matter if you're married and could totally support it, it's your decision whether or not to carry a child around for nine months.

And, yes, while adoption is an option, unless you personally know the person, you can't be sure that your child isn't going to be abused or molested. I'm not saying there aren't amazing foster parents out there, but that it would drive ME crazy, not knowing.

Also, if embryonic stem cell reasearch was fully approved, the aborted embryos could be used to save someone else's life.