Abortion

@ dru is beautiful.
My best friend was adopted. He wasn't a "white girl with blue eyes" (He's Filipino-Hawaiian to be specific) and he was adopted into a wonderful home, along with his adoptive brother. I'm sorry to hear about what happened to your mother, but just because she had a shitty adoptive father, doesn't mean they all do.

I wish there was a much easier way to say this without making me sound like a huge asshole, but in some cases, a pregnancy is just what someone needs in order to get their life on track. One girl I know personally says that her unexpected pregnancy with her son changed her life for the better because it got her off of drugs. With me, neither me or my boyfriend was ready for a baby. Neither of us had a job, we had no money, and we were both living with my mom in an already crowded house. My pregnancy made us realize that life isn't always about us, we needed to quit being lazy, and we went out and got jobs and an apartment of our own to support that baby. Even with our situation being the way it was, abortion was never an option.

And I never once recall saying that a woman's body isn't hers to do with what she pleases. By all means, go out and have that abortion if it's what makes you feel better, doesn't mean I or any other person that feels the same as me has to like or support it. I have my own opinions and thoughts, just like you.

When I was 15, I used to be pro-life no matter what the circumstances were, weather the girl was raped or not. Basically what I'm trying to say, unless my own mindset changes over the next couple years, I can't see myself thinking any differently about the subject. If you have consensual sex and you get pregnant, abortion is wrong.

@ asherzx112
I think it's great that your pregnancy and your friend's pregnancy turned your (and their) lives around, but that's anecdotal evidence, not statistical evidence. There are a lot of people who, when they become pregnant, live really bad lives for many reasons (not enough money, unhealthy mother/baby, poor living conditions, unwillingness to take care of a child, etc.). This is not anecdotal evidence.

asherzx112:

I'm sorry, but that's what makes me believe that if you're not ready to have a baby in the first place, you shouldn't be having sex. Like I said in my first post, birth control of all sorts can fail at any time, so you take on the responsibility and acknowledge that if you have sex, you have about a 50/50 chance of getting pregnant. If you're too broke, mentally unfit, don't have the time or in a bad relationship at the time, well, then you shoulda thought about all of that before you had sex.

Firstly, the chances of someone getting pregnant when they're correctly using protection is a lot lower than 50/50, so that's highly inaccurate. Secondly, people with mental illnesses and poor people are allowed to have sex even if they aren't ready for children. Sex isn't just for people who are well-off and healthy.

asherzx112:

And I would much rather see a child be put up for adoption and be put into a loving home with a family that actually wants them, then to be killed outright with no chance or option to live out a life. Hell, there's even options for the mother to find a home for the child before it's even born.

Adoption is an alternative to parenting, not an alternative to pregnancy. Even if a pregnant person decides to put their child up for adoption, they still need to think about their health (both physical and mental) as well as the costs of doctor appointments/checkups. (And even if their perfectly healthy beforehand, there's still a lot of health risks of going through childbirth.)

You also have to remember that a) the adoption/foster system is already full of children that being adopted, and b) there's a lot of abuse in those systems.

asherzx112:

To me, that's just selfish.

I think it's selfish to force someone to carry a pregnancy to term when they don't want it, aren't ready for it, or aren't financially/mentally/physically able to.

@ asherzx112
If you think I should be able to have that abortion whether you like it or not, then I hate to break it to you, but you're pro-choice.

@ dru is beautiful.
I realized that I was pro-choice a couple years ago...You're not telling me any breaking news. But I am also pro-life, as I have properly demonstrated with my opinions.

I am pro-choice with limits:

While I believe some methods of abortion are absurd (with how late you are allowed to get one), a woman having to carry the baby should have the choice. Now, my personal limits are such as rape. If the carrier of the baby was raped and wanted an abortion, I don't see why anyone should stop her, or how about incest, or maybe she is too young and it could endanger her own life. However, I am opposed to someone wanting an abortion just because the didn't want a baby (i.e: no real problems, not a rape baby, or product of incest, or a mental or physical problem). If someone just doesn't want it and decides to abort it, that's where morality drops, she could have the child and put it up for adoption. But anyway, that's my opinion. (If it made hardly any sense I apologize, I ramble too much about this sort of thing.)

@ Somebody.Nobody
Isn't it relatively immoral to say a woman isn't as important as a fetus and should have to be a prisoner inside her own body for nine months and then have to explain the adoption procedure to everyone who knows, include the child she may already have? (Most women who get an abortion already have a child.)

I just re-watched Revolutionary Road and its so depressing to me to think that Kate Winslet's character dying of a botched at home abortion isn't just over the top drama, but a legitimate problem of that time era and something still happening today.

@ dru is beautiful.
Plus people don't think about the costs of raising a child. I used to disagree with abortion until I though about all the cons vs the pros. Most of the pros are "what ifs" than the cons are in a way. I just wouldn't abort myself because of my beliefs, but I don't think the right of other women to abort should be taken away.

@ Ayana Sioux
Just the costs of having a child in the US are, like, 8 grand. That's 75% of my yearly income.

More than I originally said. Read post below mine.

@ dru is beautiful.
@ Ayana Sioux

According to The New York Times:

Quote

From 2004 to 2010, the prices that insurers paid for childbirth — one of the most universal medical encounters — rose 49 percent for vaginal births and 41 percent for Caesarean sections in the United States, with average out-of-pocket costs rising fourfold, according to a recent report by Truven that was commissioned by three health care groups. The average total price charged for pregnancy and newborn care was about $30,000 for a vaginal delivery and $50,000 for a C-section, with commercial insurers paying out an average of $18,329 and $27,866, the report found.

@ Name Of Misery.
So my numbers were way off. I'll edit my post. Thank you for that info.

@ Name Of Misery.
That's ridiculous. I ought to just have my child at home.

however I also think there should be some kind of structure in regards to carrying out an abortion. I don't think it should be carried out if there isn't consent between both parents of the child, but I feel that if one parent wants the child and the other doesn't, the parent that wants the child should take full responsibility in caring for the child if able.

@ Ayana Sioux
I don't think a man who doesn't have to carry a fetus for 9 months deserves to force another human to go through the pregnancy. However, it might interest you to know the majority of states have laws on the books allowing rapists visitation rights. What if the "father" is out of the picture? The pregnant chick is just screwed? What if she doesn't know who the father is? What if he's married? What if he threatened to kill her if she got an abortion?

Until we can transplant fetuses into the bodies of men, they are not the one who is pregnant and they do not have the right to force a woman to remain that way if she doesn't want to. That's just using women as human incubators.

You say men should take "full responsibility", but they can't because they can't be pregnant.

@ dru is beautiful.
But I still feel like the fathers role as a parent should be considered. It seems really inconsiderate and unfair to cease the possible existence of a child that the father may want. I know that some males that I know want children and would be devastated if their female partner aborted their child. I don't think their decision should be completely ignored because I find it really insensitive. Yes, I know that men cannot carry children and carrying a child can put a toll on a woman's body, but what about considering the fathers feelings?

Also I see I wasn't too clear about the fathers decision. I think that in regards to rape, the father should have no say in a women's abortion. If the woman doesn't know who the father is, to me that's a grey area.

@ Ayana Sioux
there are a lot of women in the world willing to get pregnant, and also lots of children up for adoption, why force a woman who clearly doesn't wish to have a baby to go through nine months of discomfort and health risks only because the "father" wants?

Idk, that sounds pretty unfair and egoistical to me.

@ taion
That's understandable, however some men would prefer to have their own child. Plus what if the man loves the woman he's with and he would want to have a child by her? I don't know, it seems unfair on both sides.

@ Ayana Sioux
forcing the person you suposeddly love into something like this, completely against their will, sounds even more egoistical to me.

@ Ayana Sioux
Yet it's not more unfair to force a woman into bodily submission? Men should only fuck prolifers if they are against abortion in case of pregnancy. Men should be able to speak but not be given bodily autonomy over another. Women are not human incubators

The only way I think abortion is ok is if A: the woman was raped (if you're out having sex with any random guy just for the fun of it then um not sorry you need to take care of your kid) *Or* B: the baby has horrible medical issues that could actually kill the mother. And even in both those instances its still the woman's choice, and the rape instance could be just as falsified as a legit rape, because 95% of rapes are not reported.