Abortion

@ cold.little.crime
Actually, women are more likely to get mental health problems from going through with a pregnancy than they are from terminating one.

Most women aren't entitled to much of any financial aid in America and a lot of that aid goes away if they get a job. Also, the pregnancy alone can cause them to not get hired from temp status, not get a raise/promotion, or to just downright get fired.

Sex ed isn't enough and neither is having total access to birth control since there are going to be instances when that fails or when there's medically a reason to not go through with that pregnancy. Even if the person knows everything there is to know about pregnancy and uses birth control? If they still end up pregnant and don't want to be pregnant for whatever reason (because rape, incest, medical emergency like fetus not viable no matter what or ectopic pregnancy or just flat out don't want to be pregnant), I still respect their ability to choose whether or not to carry the pregnancy.

That's a great thing to do, but fostering and adopting kids is a ridiculously long and expensive process. Lack of interest isn't the only reason why adoption is just not happening for a lot of these kids.

Please stop calling things murder and barbaric. Also, please keep in mind that less than 10% of abortions happen past 12 weeks and often if they are getting an abortion at that period of time or past that then it's because of medical reasons. My coworker had an absolutely wanted pregnancy and got an abortion around that time period because she was told that the fetus was literally not going to survive and that attempting to go through with the pregnancy could have killed her. This was after she'd already had three miscarriages and this broke her fucking heart that she couldn't be a mother yet, but she still does not regret her decision at all.

So please, I'm begging you. I'm pleading with you to never, not even in discussions about abortion on sites, use terms like 'murder' and 'barbaric' when it comes to discussing another human being's decisions about their own body.

Right, through out this entire discussion I've not asked you to change your views or been passively aggressive. I've listened and taken you're points into consideration. So please stop telling me what to think. In a forum specifically dedicated to the debate on abortion I'm allowed to say what I want. I don't discuss this in day to day life. On this board I can and will give you my opinion which you keep on asking me for with your hundreds of questions. I do think abortion past 21 weeks is barbaric. It is just murder at that point. I've already told you I know their is grey areas that I just can't comment on like when people have health issues. I've already said this is just my opinion. What do you want from me I'm not going to change my opinion? Non of these things make me want to change my opinion. I'm not going to reply any more because I feel like no matter how many answers I give you on this question accepting that we have wildly different views is not going to be enough for you. You act like I'm being horrifically insensitive by calling abortion of a 21 week pregnancy barbaric but you're forgetting I've seen 21 week old babies, it's incredibly insensitive to me that you don't even consider how much that upsets me. Unless you've spoke to a preemie mother at that point and looked at that tiny little baby you have no idea what it feels like to say it's not barbaric. And once again these are my opinions which I'm entitled to much like you are entitled to yours but my life experiences have shaped my opinions much like yours have with yours so let's leave it their

@ CallusedSilk
Look up I forgot to tag you

@ cold.little.crime
I'm not telling you what to think. I'm asking you to change some of your language because it personally offends me (and is at a high risk to offend other members) and there is a rule on this site about bashing.

You can disagree with me on what it is to have an abortion past 21 weeks, even though I've already stated that if an abortion is happening at that point it's almost entirely certain that it's for medical reasons. I also pointed out that it's extremely unlikely that it's happening at that period at all. I've also asked you to just refrain from calling it murder or barbaric.

That's fine if you want to stop talking to me about this, but I am letting you know that if you continue to post in this discussion and continue to refer to it as 'murder' and 'barbaric', then I will have to report you.

cold.little.crime:

@ CallusedSilk
My personal views on abortion are that the limit should be lowered to 12 week or 16

Do you have a reason why you want it lowered to that limit? What makes it 'not murder' then but 'murder' at say 18 weeks?

cold.little.crime:

I feel that women should have to look at a scan so they can see what they are ending.

That is actually barbaric that you would want to mentally torture these women who feel as if they have no other choice than having an abortion. Women don't have them for fun or because it's fashionable - they have an abortion because they have to, and for reasons that you would probably dismiss as unimportant, such as finance.

cold.little.crime:

Women should be warned about the PTSD and other mental health problems that can come with abortions and should know about financial aid they are entitled too until they can figure out how to get back to normality.

But let's also educate them on how hard it is to actually have an abortion. Many women cry when they have one or afterwards or even beforehand. It takes a lot to come to that decision and even if they don't regret it, it can haunt a woman for the rest of her life. And honestly, when woman have an abortion because they're not financially stable, they're proving they're able to realistically assess their situation and realise they don't have the money to care for a baby because they're expensive. The idea you're putting across that women who can barely afford to feed themselves should continue with a pregnancy because they'll get financial help from the government is badly thought through. I might not be a mother but I know how difficult it is to raise a child or children on welfare and that is not something to promote just so a woman doesn't have an abortion, because that's honestly really immature.

cold.little.crime:

the baby can and will survive outside the mother at this point and at this point I really can't understand an abortion.

With the help of Western medicine. If you had a baby at 21 weeks it would die if it didn't go in an incubator and have all that medical care. While it is great that babies born prematurely can survive thanks to our health service, that doesn't mean that should dictate our abortion legal limit. When babies born at 21 weeks can survive without medical help, then maybe it should dictate the legal limit, but to be frank, that's never going to happen. Because while they might be able to survive outside of the mother, they cannot survive as a functioning human being.

Oh cool, well I best not comment on this form any more for being reported, on holding up the wrong side of the debate ey? FYI I was hugely offended when you called adoption naive but you said it was your opinion and I thought "hey, we all have them". Enjoy your insides argument.

@ cold.little.crime
I actually said it's naive to think that pregnancy doesn't change a person's life to go through with a pregnancy.

However, that being said? You're right. I shouldn't have used that word at all, regardless of what I was commenting on, and I apologize.

Also, once again, this has nothing to do with sides of a debate. Calling someone or something barbaric is bashing and that's against the rules.

@ Mr. Darcy
I understand your frustration, but if you could refrain from using the term 'barbaric' (even in response to someone else using it) in the discussion, I'd appreciate it.

I would like to speak up on behalf of myself and many women who suffer from Post Partum Depression, it is a very real and painful struggle to go through mentally and I think it's unfair to force a woman to go through that. Making women have a pregnancy isn't going to magically turn them into a perfect mother, it will only result in more turmoil for the woman. Now again I am biased because I kept my baby, but I considered abortion at first. But I ended up having a PPD because in a way I felt pressured to keep my baby by my boyfriend and family, and now I'm dealing with depression. Because my life has been changed so drastically. I can sympathize with a lot of women who are scared and aren't ready.

It is not a cure all for women. It should be a woman's choice to go through with it. I was one of the women who's birth control failed, I was being careful and if still happened. But I shouldn't be punished when I had no intention of having a child.

Pregnancy is not easy for everybody. I had a very hard labor and c section which also contributed to my PPD. Unless you've been through this you truly do not have the right to tell women how they should feel.

I love my child absolutely but it takes so much sacrifice and stress of making sure you have an income, insurance, etc. not everyone can be prepared to make that sacrifice, and they shouldn't have to be forced. It causes more harm than good in some cases.

For anyone who says that you know you get raped or whatever that you should just have the baby it's really not that simple. When I was almost 17 I was raped and that ended in a pregnancy that I didn't really want. But because my father was the only one able to respond at the time when the police called they refused to give me the day after pill because he didn't want me to have it - he said it was my fault and that I should suffer the consequences. So, me and I ended up carrying a baby - 28 weeks and then having a stillborn.

Now had I had the choice I would have taken the day after pill and that would have saved me a lot of pain and I would have had to carry his baby. So for someone to say that I should just have the baby put it up for adoption was really not that easy because this is my body and he forced himself on me you made me make that decision. But because I was under age and in Texas apparently I don't have the right to my body regardless of the situation - and then after I lost the baby my dad blames me for that then I killed the or whatever I don't even really remember what I said but it was something along those lines.

Just because you don't want something doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else too. If it's not your body and its not hurting you physically then stay out of someone else's business it's really none of your business. A fetus isn't a person if it is isn't a baby its not even necessarily a living thing. Is the complex cells that aren't even viable so to put that above the needs are the wants of the mother who is viable and should have the right to her own body to make these decisions - the decisions that even a corpse has thing as we can't take organs or anything from a body that is dead in 10 let me have the permission of said dead body - then why is it okay to tell a woman she can't have an abortion. This is her body this is her decision it is her right to not carry a pregnancy to term if that's not what you want.

Let's not forget that pregnancy is also extremely hard on the female body, especially if she is under the age of 21 usually the body undergoes a lot of stress because she's actually not physically ready to give birth. At least my problem is that I wasn't completely develop pictures yet - Mike its head and widens or anything and giving birth was so painful because my pelvic bone was separating so much. Adoption isn't as easy as it sounds - as someone who wants to adopt I have to go through screening after screening STI screening and background check then home check every month until I have a child in my home. If I'm not married it's even harder because I'm a woman so this just goes back to the women can't make decisions for themselves.

Some abortion facts from America.

The article has some good information and is a good reference guide if people want to have a conversation about the facts of abortion, especially since the article does list all of its sources.

I've had an abortion!

To be honest I'm happy that i made that choice, yes I do agree with "your body, your choice." Yes I am a parent already, I have a son. When I found out I was pregnant again, I really had to think and I had to do it alone. Because every time I went to him it was "It's your choice." I knew what he wanted, I knew he wanted me to keep it. But at the same time he also knew that would be a bad choice, I had no idea how far I was. I went to the e.r and found out I was 5 almost sixs weeks, they told me they couldn't find a heartbeat. I kept asking if they just weren't looking in the right spot and if the speaker was on, but it was still no heart beat. So when I got home I thought some more, either I end up going through a miscarriage which is worse then an abortion, or just go through with the abortion.

I chose abortion.

Why? 1.There was no heart beat.
2.I was going to have a child with an addict, who ended up leaving to California a few months later to get sober. If I would have kept that child, he probably would have overdosed again and most likely would have died.
3.I have a child already, I didn't have money like that, nor did I have a job. How was I going to support two children?

So yes I support abortion.
I don't trust adoption.

To many psychos out there, to many drug addicts. To many irresponsible people. To many abusers.

An abortion isn't an easy thing, not for anyone involved. Some people have no choice, even if it's not medically related. The cruelty in forcing someone to look at a scan before they're allowed to have an abortion is what's barbaric in this situation. If I got pregnant now I would have to have an abortion because of personal reasons. Naturally I'm being careful, but sometimes you can still get pregnant. I couldn't handle giving a child up for adoption even though I admire those who are strong enough for that. So forcing me to see the potential baby I HAVE to terminate is cruel and would quite possible kill me. Yeah, let's look after an unborn fetus but not the mother to be...

Abortion is an extremely personal opinion people have, and if you don't want one then don't - but you can't force someone to see your way by banning something. Women have been having abortions for CENTURIES. Where there is a will, there is a way.

Besides if you can't trust me with a choice how can you trust me with a child?

@ folie a dru.
This is an issue that most people consider to be in the grey area. I, on the other hand, see it as black and white. I believe that everyone deserves a chance. You see, a fetus has already beaten so many odds. They are literally that one in a million. The one that won the race. The child (or fetus as some prefer), is a life form. He or she has potential; not only to live but also to contribute to society.

In the case of rape, I do not believe that the baby (or fetus), should have to pay for the mistakes of the father with life. It is a terrible circumstance, do not get me wrong. I know how difficult that situation can be from a first hand experience. However, I have also seen how a child can beat the odds, can grow into something even more beautiful.

I believe that abortion is taking the life of a child. No matter what the cause is for the abortion, it is murder. Abortion is robbing a baby of its life, of its potential to be something great. I do not believe that any situation justifies this action.

esenigma:

The child (or fetus as some prefer)

Well, anyone who goes by the actual dictionary definitions of "child" and "foetus" prefer it.

Quote

The child (or fetus as some prefer) is a life form. He or she has potential; not only to live but also to contribute to society.

Why is the potentiality of a foetus's life more important than the actuality of a woman's life?

Quote

In the case of rape, I do not believe that the baby (or fetus), should have to pay for the mistakes of the father with life.

So why should the mother pay instead?

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I believe that abortion is taking the life of a child. No matter what the cause is for the abortion, it is murder.

By definition a child has been born. And by definition murder is the killing of someone with malice aforethought. So it's neither of the things you said.

@ esenigma

I get where you're coming from, but what if the mother can't afford to raise a child? If she can barely afford herself, why bring another human being into it? I'm not against abortion. If it's not your body, then why judge? There are situations where some people have no choice but to do what's best for them. Not my body, not my business but that's just me.

If I want to get an abortion, then so be it. I respect your opinion but you don't know what anyone goes through at all. Maybe an abortion is the best bet for them. My body, and I can do whatever I want with it.

Is this forum still active? I would love to see everyone's thoughts on the recent abortion laws passed in Alabama, Missouri and other states... Are you pro life or pro choice? And why?

@ January Rose
I think the new anti-abortion laws are disgusting. People shouldn't be allowed to restrict women's choices, especially (mainly) older white men who don't fully understand how women's reproductive systems work and even the process of conception.

I'm pro-choice because I don't think it's other people's business to decide what a woman does with her body. It's our right to have bodily autonomy. Just as it is someone's right to not like abortion; that's fine, but as soon as somebody starts actively trying to limit access, resources or education to abortion, and by association sexual education, it's wrong. Have your opinions but don't let them effect other people.

I don't understand what's so hard about not wanting someone else to take my rights from me...like, it's my body. I, the woman in question, do not like that men who don't know jack-shit about my body, are trying to tell me what to do with it. To be fair some women don't even know about their own bodies!

Is that making sense at all???? I'm sorry that this is coming off as super passive-aggressive, but truly...what the actual hell is wrong with people that are anti-abortion? But it comes back to It's my body! and that's entirely fair, but still this shouldn't be something up for debate. I feel, but what I feel does not dictate all, and that's that on that

BUT to answer your question, January Rose, these are my thoughts as well.

lonely girl.:

@ January Rose
I think the new anti-abortion laws are disgusting. People shouldn't be allowed to restrict women's choices, especially (mainly) older white men who don't fully understand how women's reproductive systems work and even the process of conception.

I'm pro-choice because I don't think it's other people's business to decide what a woman does with her body. It's our right to have bodily autonomy. Just as it is someone's right to not like abortion; that's fine, but as soon as somebody starts actively trying to limit access, resources or education to abortion, and by association sexual education, it's wrong. Have your opinions but don't let them effect other people.

@ folie a dru.
My uterus. My decision