Abortion

  • say it lover-SAY IT.

    say it lover-SAY IT. (100)

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    Hello, I'm the girl from the previous thread that a lot of people hated.
    but that doesn't matter.

    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    It's totally unfair to just think that since you have a shitty life at the moment, it automatically means your child is going to have a shitty life.
    April 28th, 2009 at 03:53am
  • lovecraft

    lovecraft (100)

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    say it lover-SAY IT.:
    Hello, I'm the girl from the previous thread that a lot of people hated.
    but that doesn't matter.

    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    It's totally unfair to just think that since you have a shitty life at the moment, it automatically means your child is going to have a shitty life.
    Yes- giving a child a chance is important, but giving a mother the choice is just as, if not more, important.

    Just because abortion may not always be the best choice does not mean that every child will have the chance to grow up safe and healthy. There are some situations where abortion is a better option. And some where keeping the child is a better option. It all depends on the mother, and the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy. Nothing is black and white, and having the choice is incredibly important.
    April 28th, 2009 at 07:26am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    say it lover-SAY IT.:
    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    I believe in giving the fetus a chance if it's the mother's choice.
    Rebuttal question.
    Why don't you believe in giving the mother a choice?
    April 28th, 2009 at 08:01am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    punk_love:
    In the other thread Dru mentioned something about artificial insemination. If you plan to only have one child, but have more than one possible fetus inserted, you may terminate the ones that are left.
    It's mainly for in-vitro. It's called selective reduction. And they implant eggs, not fetuses. But I know what you mean.
    I wasn't trying to call you out, by the way. I didn't understand the first time it was explained to me. Just for future reference, clearing that up is all.
    April 28th, 2009 at 08:03am
  • lovecraft

    lovecraft (100)

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    druscilla's events.:
    say it lover-SAY IT.:
    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    I believe in giving the fetus a chance if it's the mother's choice.
    Rebuttal question.
    Why don't you believe in giving the mother a choice?
    Because she already made a choice. She made the choice to have sex, knowing full well that even with protection, pregnancy is a product of sex.
    April 28th, 2009 at 05:35pm
  • Einahpets

    Einahpets (150)

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    say it lover-SAY IT.:
    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    I believe in giving the fetus a chance if it's the mother's choice.
    Rebuttal question.
    Why don't you believe in giving the mother a choice?
    Because she already made a choice. She made the choice to have sex, knowing full well that even with protection, pregnancy is a product of sex.
    So people who don't want kids aren't allowed to have sex?
    April 28th, 2009 at 05:57pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    say it lover-SAY IT.:
    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    I believe in giving the fetus a chance if it's the mother's choice.
    Rebuttal question.
    Why don't you believe in giving the mother a choice?
    Because she already made a choice. She made the choice to have sex, knowing full well that even with protection, pregnancy is a product of sex.
    So when someone makes a choice the punishment should be to steal their body for nine months? I don't see choices as a bad thing. And I don't see the need for punishment because of them.
    April 28th, 2009 at 07:12pm
  • Matt Smith

    Matt Smith (900)

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    Hello, I'm the girl from the previous thread that a lot of people hated.
    but that doesn't matter.

    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    It's totally unfair to just think that since you have a shitty life at the moment, it automatically means your child is going to have a shitty life.
    I believe in giving women a chance, too.
    Exactly how much of a chance do you think they will have, though? Children born into certain parts of society are at a massive disadvantage. For example, children who are adopted are at much higher risk of school failure, mental health problems, possible drug addiction, whatever. Exactly how much of a chance are you giving a child that is going to be neglected or at the mercy of the care system? It isn't a very good chance, to begin with.

    Undeniably, our parents have a massive influence on who we are, and if you're born to a herion-addict mother with no job and no prospects who only had a child because she was forced, you're not exactly likely to go to university to become a doctor or a lawyer and make something brilliant out of your life. It is unfair. It is social injustice. But it's also the sad truth.

    (Also, nobody hates you. People might disagree with your opinions, but I assure you, it's nothing personal.)
    April 28th, 2009 at 07:33pm
  • PurpleStain

    PurpleStain (100)

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    I'm going to say this bluntly.
    If I was pregnant right now and with my financial state, my family's financial state, the economic crisis and all the other factors in this(unfinished high school, unemployment, no to mention not being ready to have and raise a child, and if I decided not to keep the kid; abortion would be my first(and only) choice.
    I wouldn't be able to bare the kid for 9 months then simply give it up. That would fuck me up in more ways than abortion ever would.

    I'm pro-choice all the way.
    As a woman, I am going to fight for woman's rights to decide for them self and not let the decision to some political bastard who only wants to get votes and popularity so he can steal money from the government, to decide what I can and can not do with my own body and life.
    The fact is; abortion is going to exist - legal or illegal.
    The only difference is, that legal abortion is performed by licensed doctors in hospitals and not by some idiot with a coat-hanger in a dirty basement, who wanted to "earn" a few bucks.
    Sorry for wanting at least the woman to survive.
    April 28th, 2009 at 09:23pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    The Strokes:
    Because she already made a choice. She made the choice to have sex, knowing full well that even with protection, pregnancy is a product of sex.
    I had this thought while walking home.

    Two women have protected sex.

    One is single and one is married.

    They both get pregnant and they both get abortions because they don't feel that in their current situations they are ready for a child.

    Is it more acceptable for one of the two women?
    April 28th, 2009 at 11:05pm
  • Faceless_time

    Faceless_time (100)

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    Faceless_time:
    Abortion is wrong, especially for those of white skin color. Not because were better or anything, it's just shown that white babies go like hot cakes when put up for adoption so there is no need for abortion. As for abortion in the circumstances of all groups abortion is still wrong. PUT THE KID UP FOR ADOPTION! AS for all that it's my body crap, the baby, a HUMAN BEING, has the RIGHT to live. I'm sorry that you spread your legs and got knocked up but that doesn't give you the right to destroy another life when you can put it up for adoption or leave it at a police department or firestation. As for rape and incest, put it up for adoption.
    1. Your commenst on skin colour give me the creeps. Has it occured to you that more "white" children get adopted because the majority of children are white? Flawed logic.

    2. Note that it is babies. Cute little ickle babies. That's fine when they're young but what if they don't get adopted? The older you are in the care system, the lesser likely you are to be adopted. And in the adoption stakes, if you no longer like the child, tough as it may be, some are put back into care. The adoption system is not perfect: my own father was adopted and he's screwed up. After being adopted, he left my mother, twice, after me and my sibling was born.

    Also, if we look into the psychological sides of things. Children who are institutionalised are more likely to show signs of the PDD cycle which can cause emotionless and severe psychological problems including learning difficulties in later life.

    3. Don't you dare assume this is all the woman's fault. You make it sound whomever gets an abortion is automatically Slutty McGee. There are so many reasons why women get abortions in which you haven't even considered.

    4. And have you even considered the psychological effect on giving birth to a rape or an incestous child? The one concieved in incest is more likely to have genetic defects which is unfair on the child. The one concieved in rape and those who feel forced to carry the child to the end will cause undeserved turmoil to the rape victim. I mean, if you are robbed, you can at least start to get on with your life. With carrying a child for nine months, I don't exactly see how it is beneficial for mother or child. After all, finding out you were put up for adoption because your mother got raped...not exactly a joyeous moment, huh?

    5. You promote the dumping of children? That makes total sense. I don't want this child, so I'll give birth to it but leave it on a step and maybe someone will see it.
    1. While I respect your opinion, iot is stistically shown that the percentage of white children adopted is higher than that of other racial groups.

    2.Yes that makes sense, because being adpoted is tough, it's far better to murder the child then give it a chance at life no matter what the odds.

    3. Please, tell me, aside from the options I have covered, what other reason is there for a woman to get knocked up? Rape, incest, slutishness, or selfish pleasure are the only reasons for getting knocked up and getting an abortion. Aside from medical reasons of course, but then it is still the mothers responsibilty to give birth to the child.

    4. So now were going to kill the baby because it is stressful and hard on the mother? I get that it is a torment but it is still not right to kill the baby. As for genetic defects, it might need special care but it is our responsibilty as a society to take care of such people.

    5.It is completely legal in several states in the U.S.A and other countrys to leave the baby at a police, fire, or medical station. They have a better chance at a good life when that happens than they do if they're sucked out by vacuum force in a late stage abortion and have their head smashed to pieces.
    April 29th, 2009 at 01:43am
  • Faceless_time

    Faceless_time (100)

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    Hello, I'm the girl from the previous thread that a lot of people hated.
    but that doesn't matter.

    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    It's totally unfair to just think that since you have a shitty life at the moment, it automatically means your child is going to have a shitty life.
    I believe in giving women a chance, too.
    Exactly how much of a chance do you think they will have, though? Children born into certain parts of society are at a massive disadvantage. For example, children who are adopted are at much higher risk of school failure, mental health problems, possible drug addiction, whatever. Exactly how much of a chance are you giving a child that is going to be neglected or at the mercy of the care system? It isn't a very good chance, to begin with.

    Undeniably, our parents have a massive influence on who we are, and if you're born to a herion-addict mother with no job and no prospects who only had a child because she was forced, you're not exactly likely to go to university to become a doctor or a lawyer and make something brilliant out of your life. It is unfair. It is social injustice. But it's also the sad truth.

    (Also, nobody hates you. People might disagree with your opinions, but I assure you, it's nothing personal.)
    So because the poor child has a small chance at a sucessful life we should allow it to be killed before it has proven what we can do? You say that a child like that is unlikely to be a doctor like it's a justifiable reason for an abortion. Isn't human life intristically more valuable than what that human may provide to our society?
    April 29th, 2009 at 01:48am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    Faceless_time:
    So because the poor child has a small chance at a sucessful life we should allow it to be killed before it has proven what we can do? You say that a child like that is unlikely to be a doctor like it's a justifiable reason for an abortion. Isn't human life intristically more valuable than what that human may provide to our society?
    No. She's just saying that you're saving a fetus to turn it into a child that will probably have a horrible life rather than just terminating the pregnancy before there is a child at all.
    April 29th, 2009 at 02:49am
  • Jewel Nicole

    Jewel Nicole (100)

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    I believe it's a woman's choice. Regardless of the circumstances. :)
    April 29th, 2009 at 03:39am
  • Jewel Nicole

    Jewel Nicole (100)

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    I believe it's a woman's choice. Regardless of the circumstances. :)
    April 29th, 2009 at 03:40am
  • ChemicallyImbalanced

    ChemicallyImbalanced (1365)

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    3. Please, tell me, aside from the options I have covered, what other reason is there for a woman to get knocked up? Rape, incest, slutishness, or selfish pleasure are the only reasons for getting knocked up and getting an abortion. Aside from medical reasons of course, but then it is still the mothers responsibilty to give birth to the child.
    What if contraception fails? Or a condom breaks? Just because you have sex does not mean it's purely for selfish pleasure or that you're a slut.
    Couples have sex to show each other their love, it's not just everyone being sluts.
    Quote
    4. So now were going to kill the baby because it is stressful and hard on the mother? I get that it is a torment but it is still not right to kill the baby. As for genetic defects, it might need special care but it is our responsibilty as a society to take care of such people.
    1. You aren't killing a baby, that would be infantcide. You're terminating a pregnancy or a fetus.

    2. Forcing a woman to go through nine months of pregnancy and carry a child that she doesn't want it just as cruel when you consider the physical, emotional and mental effects.
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    5.It is completely legal in several states in the U.S.A and other countrys to leave the baby at a police, fire, or medical station. They have a better chance at a good life when that happens than they do if they're sucked out by vacuum force in a late stage abortion and have their head smashed to pieces.
    What states is it legal to dump your baby?

    And if abortion is legal, in most places they're only performed a certain number of weeks into the pregnancy, so that methods like that aren't used.
    April 29th, 2009 at 09:30am
  • The Master

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    1. While I respect your opinion, iot is stistically shown that the percentage of white children adopted is higher than that of other racial groups.

    2.Yes that makes sense, because being adpoted is tough, it's far better to murder the child then give it a chance at life no matter what the odds.

    3. Please, tell me, aside from the options I have covered, what other reason is there for a woman to get knocked up? Rape, incest, slutishness, or selfish pleasure are the only reasons for getting knocked up and getting an abortion. Aside from medical reasons of course, but then it is still the mothers responsibilty to give birth to the child.

    4. So now were going to kill the baby because it is stressful and hard on the mother? I get that it is a torment but it is still not right to kill the baby. As for genetic defects, it might need special care but it is our responsibilty as a society to take care of such people.

    5.It is completely legal in several states in the U.S.A and other countrys to leave the baby at a police, fire, or medical station. They have a better chance at a good life when that happens than they do if they're sucked out by vacuum force in a late stage abortion and have their head smashed to pieces.
    1. As I have already stated, it is flawed logic as white people in the US/UK are the majority race and will therefore have a higher adoption rate.

    2. I don't know about you but have you ever went into a slum recently? I was born in the Scottish equivalent and believe you me, it ain't a pretty sight. The majority of my peers are either on drugs, in a dead end job or raising a child. In my primary school, I'm the only one that gained any form of higher education. I personally think this is due to a genetic defect of some description because my views, values and intelligence have somewhat passed over the rest of my family.

    A nice statistic about my hometown is that we have the highest rate of drug overdoses in the UK. Or Scotland. Something like that. One in four children live below the breadline. Violence, drugs, gang culture, knives and more recently, guns are a part of everyday life for the majority of under 25s in my region. Only those who are above the "underclass" seem to get on anywhere in life. There is so much environmental factors you need to consider before making a blanket statement about "letting" the foetus reach "life" as it were. I don't see how, exactly, this means they have a chance in life as life in my area is a highly polarised society: you are either a scumbag (Ned, we call 'em.) or you're middle class or you're a respectable person but still a member of the so-called underclass. I am still part of that underclass and in my mind, I always will be a part of that culture.

    3. There's millions of reasons for getting an abortion. For example, what if the mother has a severe form of psychological problems? What if the mother is a junkie? What if the mother cannot afford to give birth to the child? What if the mother is homeless? What if the father demands an abortion in a bad relationship? What if they simply do not want a child and have ended up pregnant regardless? I have barely scratched the surface.

    And do not use the word "sluttishness". It takes two to create a life but it's the female who must carry the child whereas the bloke can piss off if it gets too heavy for him in a relationship.

    And I have never recalled anyone getting an abortion for fun. That's like drilling out your teeth because Heroes or Coronation Street isn't on.

    And the mother's responsibility to give birth to the child? Even if it's killing her?

    4. Would you -personally - adopt someone with Down's Syndrome?

    Women in those situations are hardly going to be in the best of mental health, are they? Let's consider this Austrian bloke, eh?

    His daughter was forced to give birth to, what, 7 of her father's children? Those kids are going to know how they were brought into this world and how, exactly, is that going to make them feel? The mother will probably be stuck on counselling for the rest of her life. I do not see how this is a viable route for all those who have been affected by such circumstances.

    5. Since you're a Yank, I will assume you haven't read up on anything like "Dustbin Baby" - a book for kids dealing with someone who was abandoned as a baby. It can cause severe psychological issues with children because - no matter what - they will find out they were dumped and do you honestly think that the first thing that will enter their heads will be "Oh well, at least I'm still here?"

    They will think what was so wrong about them that they were dumped alone. They will think they are unlovable, they are wrong, they're horrible.

    And it isn't exactly legal. If a child is dumped, it is classifed as abandonment and neglect which is a criminal offence.

    And where in the name of all that is good and green did you get the idea that in a late abortion, the foetus is sucked out and smashed to bits?

    The early abortions are "sucked out" because they are tiny enough to be "sucked out". The late abortions (quite rare, really) the foetus is terminated in vitro and is removed either by forceps or by giving birth.
    April 29th, 2009 at 03:01pm
  • Matt Smith

    Matt Smith (900)

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    Hello, I'm the girl from the previous thread that a lot of people hated.
    but that doesn't matter.

    What I don't understand, is why don't you all believe in giving a child a chance?
    It's totally unfair to just think that since you have a shitty life at the moment, it automatically means your child is going to have a shitty life.
    I believe in giving women a chance, too.
    Exactly how much of a chance do you think they will have, though? Children born into certain parts of society are at a massive disadvantage. For example, children who are adopted are at much higher risk of school failure, mental health problems, possible drug addiction, whatever. Exactly how much of a chance are you giving a child that is going to be neglected or at the mercy of the care system? It isn't a very good chance, to begin with.

    Undeniably, our parents have a massive influence on who we are, and if you're born to a herion-addict mother with no job and no prospects who only had a child because she was forced, you're not exactly likely to go to university to become a doctor or a lawyer and make something brilliant out of your life. It is unfair. It is social injustice. But it's also the sad truth.

    (Also, nobody hates you. People might disagree with your opinions, but I assure you, it's nothing personal.)
    So because the poor child has a small chance at a sucessful life we should allow it to be killed before it has proven what we can do? You say that a child like that is unlikely to be a doctor like it's a justifiable reason for an abortion. Isn't human life intristically more valuable than what that human may provide to our society?
    Actually, I say nothing of the sort.
    I'm not talking about getting rid of all 'poor' people. But the original poster was talking about giving children a 'chance'. Which seems thoroughly paradoxical to me, because exactly how much of a chance are you giving a child who is going to be born into an extremely unstable environment, who was only brought into the world because the mother was forced not to have an abortion? It's a poor chance at life, at best.

    I also don't think human life is itself better than making a contribution to society. It's kind of the same thing. We're not all equal in that respect, either. Human life could be a woman who has been in a coma for twenty years. She's clearly not contributing as much to society as, say, a teacher. For example.
    April 29th, 2009 at 05:11pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    2.Yes that makes sense, because being adpoted is tough, it's far better to murder the child then give it a chance at life no matter what the odds.

    3. Please, tell me, aside from the options I have covered, what other reason is there for a woman to get knocked up? Rape, incest, slutishness, or selfish pleasure are the only reasons for getting knocked up and getting an abortion. Aside from medical reasons of course, but then it is still the mothers responsibilty to give birth to the child.

    4. So now were going to kill the baby because it is stressful and hard on the mother? I get that it is a torment but it is still not right to kill the baby. As for genetic defects, it might need special care but it is our responsibilty as a society to take care of such people.

    5.It is completely legal in several states in the U.S.A and other countrys to leave the baby at a police, fire, or medical station. They have a better chance at a good life when that happens than they do if they're sucked out by vacuum force in a late stage abortion and have their head smashed to pieces.
    2.) No one is talking about murdering a child. Abortion is the cessation of pregnancy, not infanticide. Infanticide is wrong.

    3.) A woman who has sex with her boyfriend of three years. A woman who has sex with her husband. A woman who has sex with her fiance.

    4.) Once again, this is an abortion thread, not an infanticide thread. We are discussing fetuses and pregnancy, not children. We aren't talking about Andrea Yates here.

    5.) My mother was adopted. She was raped for seven years. Wow. What an absolutely fantastic life for a young girl.
    April 30th, 2009 at 12:26am
  • punk_love

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    3. Please, tell me, aside from the options I have covered, what other reason is there for a woman to get knocked up? Rape, incest, slutishness, or selfish pleasure are the only reasons for getting knocked up and getting an abortion. Aside from medical reasons of course, but then it is still the mothers responsibilty to give birth to the child.
    I am one of the girls who just so happened to be molested for a good part of my life. From 9 years old until 6 months before my 14th birthday. So that is what, 4 and a half years? Right. If I hadn't said anything to better myself from the situation, there is no doubt in my mind that I was going to be raped.

    Now if I had been raped at anytime during those years and had gotten pregnant, I would have had to have an abortion. There was no way in hell I was ready for that kind of responsibility. Not to mention it was my mother raising me by herself. And she worked 80 hours a week. So who would take care of the baby? I would surely have to finish school. I wasn't even in high school yet.

    Could I have carried the baby to full term and given it up for adoption? Not a chance. Having to have the reminder of what happened to me for so long would surely mess me up in the head.

    Am I saying other girls my age couldn't do it? No. But I know I wouldn't have been able to.

    So should I have to pay the consequence for what I had no control over?

    Just for the record, I was not raped, nor did I get an abortion. I was simply using "what ifs."
    April 30th, 2009 at 04:48am