Religion and Homosexuality

  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    I know there are threads for homosexuality, but this one is specifically for the discussion of religion and homosexuality.

    What religion are you and what effect does your religion have on your opinion of gay people, gay rights, gay behaviors, etc?

    Do you think religion is one of the main barriers of gay rights?

    What do you think of gay marriages in a church? Should they be allowed? Should they not? Under what circumstances should they be allowed?

    Do you think God/Allah/Jehovah/Yaweh/whoever loves gay people? Do you think He/She created gay people?

    And any other things you want to say/discuss.

    ---

    I used to to be anti-gay in early high school. My church taught me being gay was wrong and I blindly believed them without questioning things.

    I don't believe homosexuality is a sin. I believe God loves homosexuals. I believe He created them for a purpose and that purpose was not to throw them into Hell. I believe they have the same purpose as the rest of us and that living a homosexual lifestyle is perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the Lord.

    I think religion has created the main barriers against gay rights in my country, at the least.

    I'm not for forcing gay marriage ceremonies upon individual churches. As with any marriage ceremony, I believe it should be up to the church and the minister/priest/whoever. A church is under no obligation to perform the marriage ceremony of every heterosexual couple and I would never force them to perform a gay marriage if they did not choose to.
    May 24th, 2009 at 08:31am
  • kafka.

    kafka. (150)

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    Honestly, I think we should work on making religion irrelevant when it comes to laws/human rights issues rather than try to convince people that God has nothing against homosexuality. I think we should look at this as a civil rights problem, and maybe a state-church separation problem, not as a problem of religious dogma, because religious dogma should not dictate secular laws and that's our main problem.

    I simply don't think I have the right to judge people so I can't say if what other people do is a sin or not, nor do I have the knowledge at the moment to say what God wants. It's none of my business as long as it's not hurting anyone.
    May 24th, 2009 at 09:08am
  • lalaliar

    lalaliar (110)

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    If this seems insensitive then I apologise, but I don't understand why the LGBTQ-etc. community would want a marriage in a church, or a marriage that is recognised by the church. I know it's all about equal rights but the majority of LGBTQ people aren't all that enthusiastic about religion, I'm generalising here, but it's all swings and roundabouts.

    There are civil unions, partnerships and what not they're a show of acceptance but they also separate homosexuals. I don't think there is a solution as there's so much diversity in opinion within the various denominations of religion, and within the LGBTQ community as well.

    My belief in God is that He exists except outside of space and time. I don't think He concerns himself with the lives of his subjects in a 'hands on' kind of way. The Bible I find difficult to put any belief in because I think morality is intrinsic, and that God is transcendent. Though that has little to do with topic I suppose.

    Religion is one of the main barriers to gay rights but I think that is as much to do with members of the LGBTQ community making it like that as it is the church and followers of religion. You see just as many homosexual people who assume that Christians want to preach to them, convert them, homosexuals expect to be accepted when they aren't themselves accepting of the church.

    Tomato After reading this through, I've realised just how bad at explaining my thought process I am. I'm not even sure what I was getting at.
    May 24th, 2009 at 02:16pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    tra-lalaliar:
    If this seems insensitive then I apologise, but I don't understand why the LGBTQ-etc. community would want a marriage in a church, or a marriage that is recognised by the church. I know it's all about equal rights but the majority of LGBTQ people aren't all that enthusiastic about religion, I'm generalising here, but it's all swings and roundabouts.

    There are civil unions, partnerships and what not they're a show of acceptance but they also separate homosexuals. I don't think there is a solution as there's so much diversity in opinion within the various denominations of religion, and within the LGBTQ community as well.
    You can actually get a marriage outside of the church which is still a marriage.
    My mother is a straight Atheist and married my stepfather at the courthouse. It's still a marriage and it's still completely legal.
    May 24th, 2009 at 06:51pm
  • svefn-gengar

    svefn-gengar (240)

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    I think I made a post to do with this in another religion thread. So I'll put it here as well. :cute:

    I find it hard to see the sense in homosexuality being a sin in religions. Your sexuality is set for life, so if God/a god/a higher power created all of us, he/she/it created our sexualities with us. According to that, saying that homosexuality is a sin would be hypocritical.

    That's one of the main reasons I've lost my religion as a Christian; being a bisexual person, I can't see how I'm not allowed to have relations with another boy, when if God created me, it was his doing that I go that way.
    May 24th, 2009 at 07:20pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    Alexface.:
    I find it hard to see the sense in homosexuality being a sin in religions. Your sexuality is set for life, so if God/a god/a higher power created all of us, he/she/it created our sexualities with us. According to that, saying that homosexuality is a sin would be hypocritical.
    A lot of religions believe sexual orientation is a choice.
    They're wrong, but that's why they don't believe your (and my) argument.
    May 24th, 2009 at 07:59pm
  • lalaliar

    lalaliar (110)

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    druscilla's map.:
    You can actually get a marriage outside of the church which is still a marriage.
    My mother is a straight Atheist and married my stepfather at the courthouse. It's still a marriage and it's still completely legal.
    And homosexuals can't have those?
    I'm not entirely sure how it works in the States. I 'spose I should read up on it but it doesn't really apply to me.
    May 24th, 2009 at 08:04pm
  • Matt Smith

    Matt Smith (900)

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    The first thing which jumps to mind is the fact that the Church of Scotland last night appointed its first gay minister. Scott Rennie. As far as I know, he had a lot of support from his congregation, although there were also some pictures of protestors in Edinburgh too.

    Still, it's pretty good news as far as I'm concerned. Yay for progress.
    May 24th, 2009 at 08:09pm
  • svefn-gengar

    svefn-gengar (240)

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    druscilla's map.:
    A lot of religions believe sexual orientation is a choice.
    They're wrong, but that's why they don't believe your (and my) argument.
    Yeah, that's it. And I really can't see the logic in that. Okay, I'm not saying religions are logical, or that they're meant to be, but one would think that if a religion is going to have its good turns and its sins, they would be well-thought out.
    May 24th, 2009 at 08:54pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    tra-lalaliar:
    druscilla's map.:
    You can actually get a marriage outside of the church which is still a marriage.
    My mother is a straight Atheist and married my stepfather at the courthouse. It's still a marriage and it's still completely legal.
    And homosexuals can't have those?
    I'm not entirely sure how it works in the States. I 'spose I should read up on it but it doesn't really apply to me.
    Only in the states where gay marriage is legal.
    May 24th, 2009 at 09:01pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    Bloodraine:
    The first thing which jumps to mind is the fact that the Church of Scotland last night appointed its first gay minister. Scott Rennie. As far as I know, he had a lot of support from his congregation, although there were also some pictures of protestors in Edinburgh too.

    Still, it's pretty good news as far as I'm concerned. Yay for progress.
    When Gene Robinson (first gay Episcopal bishop) because a bishop at his ceremony (whatever it's called) he had to wear a bullet-proof vest under his robes because of credible death threats made on his life.

    To me... that just... shows how nonsensical religious fanatics are. Which is the worse sin? Being gay or killing someone?
    May 24th, 2009 at 09:03pm
  • Matt Smith

    Matt Smith (900)

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    I think even in the logic of the religious fanatic, loving the wrong gender (and I stress that 'wrong' is their point of view, not mine) should be less severe than killing someone. Love is better than murder. Or not, as it would appear.

    Gene Robinson was banned (or not invited?) from the Lambeth Conference last year. Which I find sad. I know there were a lot of political issues involved with it that were not his fault, and the Anglican church was seemingly on the verge of a split, so Rowan Williams probably didn't have a lot of choice. But it makes me sad because the people who had a problem with him weren't those in the Church of England and therefore I don't think he should have been banned from the event. It's Britain, we're supposed to tolerate this, regardless of what African/Australian Bishops think.

    Still, I don't really get Anglican Church politics so a lot of what I've said is probably ignorant. I'm thinking Episcopal is just what the Anglican church is called in America? Either way, half of my family are C of E and they seem to be a fairly liberal Church in Britain. I know this isn't the case in the rest of the world, though.
    May 24th, 2009 at 09:25pm
  • puffycloud

    puffycloud (100)

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    I am a christian and I used to believe that homosexuality was the worst sin there was. But thank God, he changed my heart. God wants us to love all people for who they are and not be judgemental. I support gay rights.
    May 25th, 2009 at 02:32am
  • veronika

    veronika (130)

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    tra-lalaliar:
    You see just as many homosexual people who assume that Christians want to preach to them, convert them, homosexuals expect to be accepted when they aren't themselves accepting of the church.
    Those are pretty big claims to make - that homosexuals don't accept the church and that they assume all Christians want to preach at them.

    Generalisations have their place, but I think it's dangerous to generalise in this instance because it can seem offensive. Not just to homosexuals, but Christians as well.

    There are actually quite a lot of homosexual people who are religious, and who accept the church - but that's not to say that ALL non-religious gay people don't accept the church. I believe you can accept something but not agree with it. You can't just say that because they're gay they don't accept the church.

    And not all Christians want to preach to gay people. Not all Christians want to condemn homosexuality. And as I stated before, some are even gay themselves.

    But besides all that, marriage isn't just a religious ceremony these days. Atheists can get married just like Christians and no one bats an eyelid. A church isn't a necessity for marriage. You can do it in a courtroom. On the beach. In a garden. In your backyard. You don't even need a pastor / priest / minister / whatever to marry.

    So I think it's more about convincing people that homosexuals deserve the same legal rights as straight couples than it is to convince the church to accept them.
    May 25th, 2009 at 02:52am
  • Cresent_Moon_126

    Cresent_Moon_126 (100)

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    I'm a christian, and I believe that you have a choice to be homosexual, no one forces you to be gay, God doesn't decide whether you're going to be gay or not, as you live, you choose that path.

    Christians aren't supposed to judge, but they're not suposed to sympathize either. If you want to find out whether being homosexual is a sin, by the biblical purposes, it's in the bible. Specifiacally in the bible, which is why most churches don't let homosexuals in the church.
    Killing someone or being gay according to God, is still sin in God's eyes.
    May 25th, 2009 at 07:09am
  • ChemicallyImbalanced

    ChemicallyImbalanced (1365)

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    Cresent_Moon_126:
    I'm a christian, and I believe that you have a choice to be homosexual, no one forces you to be gay, God doesn't decide whether you're going to be gay or not, as you live, you choose that path.

    Christians aren't supposed to judge, but they're not suposed to sympathize either. If you want to find out whether being homosexual is a sin, by the biblical purposes, it's in the bible. Specifiacally in the bible, which is why most churches don't let homosexuals in the church.
    Killing someone or being gay according to God, is still sin in God's eyes.
    It's not a choice. It may be to some people, but I really can't help that I'm attracted to girls, I just am. I can't explain it.

    Where in the bible does it name homosexuality as a sin? I know that it's said to be untraditional, and the act of gay sex wasn't allowed, but I don't think there's anything saying you can't be gay.
    May 25th, 2009 at 08:30am
  • cardiotoxicity

    cardiotoxicity (100)

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    Cresent_Moon_126:
    I'm a christian, and I believe that you have a choice to be homosexual, no one forces you to be gay, God doesn't decide whether you're going to be gay or not, as you live, you choose that path.

    Christians aren't supposed to judge, but they're not suposed to sympathize either. If you want to find out whether being homosexual is a sin, by the biblical purposes, it's in the bible. Specifiacally in the bible, which is why most churches don't let homosexuals in the church.
    Killing someone or being gay according to God, is still sin in God's eyes.
    "Choose that path"? Loving someone isn't committing a crime. Loving someone is not a sin.

    How is killing somebody on the same par as being gay?
    May 25th, 2009 at 11:55am
  • cups and cakes.

    cups and cakes. (100)

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    Alexface.:
    Your sexuality is set for life, so if God/a god/a higher power created all of us, he/she/it created our sexualities with us.
    I know a guy who was straight, got married to a woman, then they had a miserable relationship after a miscarried baby. He then met a guy who he's now dating... and decided he's gay. Not bisexual. Gay. So... maybe people aren't exactly born with their orientation, but rather born to become that orientation... if you get my drift?
    May 25th, 2009 at 12:36pm
  • lalaliar

    lalaliar (110)

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    acid bath:
    Generalisations have their place, but I think it's dangerous to generalise in this instance because it can seem offensive. Not just to homosexuals, but Christians as well.

    There are actually quite a lot of homosexual people who are religious, and who accept the church - but that's not to say that ALL non-religious gay people don't accept the church.

    And not all Christians want to preach to gay people. Not all Christians want to condemn homosexuality. And as I stated before, some are even gay themselves.
    I apologise if what I said caused offence to you, or to anyone else. However I wasn't saying that all non religious gay people don't accept the church, neither did I say that all Christians want to preach to gay people, or that gay Christians do not exist.

    When comparing the effect of religion on homosexuals on a global scale what is to be said for predominately Islamic countries such as Yemen, Iran, Pakistan, Mauritania and northern Nigeria where homosexuality can be punishable by death?
    Wikipedia:
    Nigeria, 5 - 14 years / Death.
    Areas under Sharia have instituted death for men and women. Any content, advocating groups or associations, support, talking to, marriage, etc regarding LGBT persons can land you in jail for at least four years.
    Another source that corroborates with the wiki article is here.

    Christian stand points on the issue of homosexuality seem almost tame in comparison with the rights or lack thereof given by countries governed by Sharia law.
    May 25th, 2009 at 01:26pm
  • svefn-gengar

    svefn-gengar (240)

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    cups and cakes.:
    I know a guy who was straight, got married to a woman, then they had a miserable relationship after a miscarried baby. He then met a guy who he's now dating... and decided he's gay. Not bisexual. Gay. So... maybe people aren't exactly born with their orientation, but rather born to become that orientation... if you get my drift?
    Yeah, I agree with that. I know some straight people who've been married and had kids then realised they're gay.
    May 25th, 2009 at 03:24pm