Religion and Homosexuality

druscilla prefers.:

Well, 1 Corinthians is New Testament... but:

Although "homosexual" is a very common translation, it is almost certain to be inaccurate:
- If Paul wanted to refer to homosexual behavior, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males.
- The second term is "arsenokoitai" in Greek. The exact meaning of this word is lost. It seems to have been a term created by Paul for this verse. "Arsen" means "man" in Greek. So there is no way that "arsenokoitai" could refer to both male and female homosexuals.

Remember, Paul lived in Rome where Romans were torturing Christians and killing them. The Romans had wild orgies and were not ashamed of having sex with men (in public, no less). This is where I personally believe politics comes into the Bible.

There are a few more quotes in the Bible that seem to forbid homosexuality, I was just giving the one example.
But yeah, I know that a lot of it's political and down to interpretation. :cute:
I was just saying that in response to people thinking that there is entirely no mention of homosexuality in the Bible.

radio with guts.:

druscilla prefers.:

Well, 1 Corinthians is New Testament... but:

Although "homosexual" is a very common translation, it is almost certain to be inaccurate:
- If Paul wanted to refer to homosexual behavior, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males.
- The second term is "arsenokoitai" in Greek. The exact meaning of this word is lost. It seems to have been a term created by Paul for this verse. "Arsen" means "man" in Greek. So there is no way that "arsenokoitai" could refer to both male and female homosexuals.

Remember, Paul lived in Rome where Romans were torturing Christians and killing them. The Romans had wild orgies and were not ashamed of having sex with men (in public, no less). This is where I personally believe politics comes into the Bible.

There are a few more quotes in the Bible that seem to forbid homosexuality, I was just giving the one example.
But yeah, I know that a lot of it's political and down to interpretation. :cute:
I was just saying that in response to people thinking that there is entirely no mention of homosexuality in the Bible.

Actually, I think she had said there was no mention of the Bible calling monogamous romantic homosexual relationships sinful. Because there isn't. I know the seven Bible verse regarding homosexuality and they refer to promiscuous homosexual sex, which is indeed sinful in the same way that promiscuous heterosexual sex is.

druscilla prefers.:

Actually, I think she had said there was no mention of the Bible calling monogamous romantic homosexual relationships sinful. Because there isn't. I know the seven Bible verse regarding homosexuality and they refer to promiscuous homosexual sex, which is indeed sinful in the same way that promiscuous heterosexual sex is.

But I think that's pretty much down to interpretation, too...
I mean, what about "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman"?
I don't really see that it refers specifically to promiscuity, although most of them kinda do.

radio with guts.:

I mean, what about "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman"?
I don't really see that it refers specifically to promiscuity, although most of them kinda do.

Yeah but the way I see it, that line doesn't say anything about a relationship as such, which is why I believe that the bible says nothing particularly against gay marriage.

radio with guts.:

druscilla prefers.:

Actually, I think she had said there was no mention of the Bible calling monogamous romantic homosexual relationships sinful. Because there isn't. I know the seven Bible verse regarding homosexuality and they refer to promiscuous homosexual sex, which is indeed sinful in the same way that promiscuous heterosexual sex is.

But I think that's pretty much down to interpretation, too...
I mean, what about "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman"?
I don't really see that it refers specifically to promiscuity, although most of them kinda do.

I think it refers specifically to sex. It doesn't talk about how thou shalt not have relationships with mankind as with womankind. Remember, during the time of Leviticus they were trying to rebuild the Hebrew nation and gay sex wasn't going to help with reproduction.

David and Jonathan were gay. Or so I believe going by Biblical translation and verses.

So the Bible says that homosexuals may engage in a relationship as long as they don't actually have sex...
And, I mean, it's obviously possible to have a romantic relationship without the sexual aspect, but it still doesn't give homosexual couples equal rights with heterosexual couples.
Though, you're right, it is because of politics and other factors, that is the reason for it--I'm not going to go around encouraging Christians to think that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry... don't wanna give anybody that impression.
:shifty

Lol that's a far stretch interpretation

radio with guts.:

So the Bible says that homosexuals may engage in a relationship as long as they don't actually have sex...
And, I mean, it's obviously possible to have a romantic relationship without the sexual aspect, but it still doesn't give homosexual couples equal rights with heterosexual couples.
Though, you're right, it is because of politics and other factors, that is the reason for it--I'm not going to go around encouraging Christians to think that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry... don't wanna give anybody that impression.
:shifty

No, I never said that.
I said that there was nothing mentioned about loving, monogamous homosexual couples being a sin. This includes sex inside the marriage bed.
The sex referred to in other verses is casual, promiscuous sex. Which is a sin in the Christian religion, no matter what gender is getting it on with what gender.

druscilla prefers.:

radio with guts.:

So the Bible says that homosexuals may engage in a relationship as long as they don't actually have sex...
And, I mean, it's obviously possible to have a romantic relationship without the sexual aspect, but it still doesn't give homosexual couples equal rights with heterosexual couples.
Though, you're right, it is because of politics and other factors, that is the reason for it--I'm not going to go around encouraging Christians to think that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry... don't wanna give anybody that impression.
:shifty

No, I never said that.
I said that there was nothing mentioned about loving, monogamous homosexual couples being a sin. This includes sex inside the marriage bed.
The sex referred to in other verses is casual, promiscuous sex. Which is a sin in the Christian religion, no matter what gender is getting it on with what gender.

Where in the Bible is same-sex marriage mentioned? The first letter to the Corinthians -for example- says nothing of it.

kafka.:

druscilla prefers.:

radio with guts.:

So the Bible says that homosexuals may engage in a relationship as long as they don't actually have sex...
And, I mean, it's obviously possible to have a romantic relationship without the sexual aspect, but it still doesn't give homosexual couples equal rights with heterosexual couples.
Though, you're right, it is because of politics and other factors, that is the reason for it--I'm not going to go around encouraging Christians to think that gays shouldn't be allowed to marry... don't wanna give anybody that impression.
:shifty

No, I never said that.
I said that there was nothing mentioned about loving, monogamous homosexual couples being a sin. This includes sex inside the marriage bed.
The sex referred to in other verses is casual, promiscuous sex. Which is a sin in the Christian religion, no matter what gender is getting it on with what gender.

Where in the Bible is same-sex marriage mentioned? The first letter to the Corinthians -for example- says nothing of it.

It's not mentioned. But since the Bible does not condom loving, monogamous homosexual relationships, this would mean they're not a sin. Which in turn means there's nothing sinful about gay marriage. Which in turn, allows sex after marriage for a homosexual couple.

Granted, I'm not big on the whole 'no sex before marriage thing period' but I understand that it's a sin in Christianity. (Well... mainstream Christianity.)

druscilla's ribbon.:

It's not mentioned. But since the Bible does not condom loving, monogamous homosexual relationships, this would mean they're not a sin. Which in turn means there's nothing sinful about gay marriage. Which in turn, allows sex after marriage for a homosexual couple.

Granted, I'm not big on the whole 'no sex before marriage thing period' but I understand that it's a sin in Christianity. (Well... mainstream Christianity.)

Would anymore living before the first century even think of same-sex marriage as possible?
I think, to some extend, that we're trying to stretch it too far. But then I don't think the Bible is the absolute truth, but rather the information that God considered that we need(ed) to hold as absolute.

kafka.:

Would anymore living before the first century even think of same-sex marriage as possible?
I think, to some extend, that we're trying to stretch it too far. But then I don't think the Bible is the absolute truth, but rather the information that God considered that we need(ed) to hold as absolute.

Would anyone living before the first century even think of inter-racial marriage as possible?

Let's not forget that Christianity did have problems getting started because of how bigoted they were towards homosexuals.

kafka.:

druscilla's ribbon.:

It's not mentioned. But since the Bible does not condom loving, monogamous homosexual relationships, this would mean they're not a sin. Which in turn means there's nothing sinful about gay marriage. Which in turn, allows sex after marriage for a homosexual couple.

Granted, I'm not big on the whole 'no sex before marriage thing period' but I understand that it's a sin in Christianity. (Well... mainstream Christianity.)

Would anymore living before the first century even think of same-sex marriage as possible?
I think, to some extend, that we're trying to stretch it too far. But then I don't think the Bible is the absolute truth, but rather the information that God considered that we need(ed) to hold as absolute.

I don't know. I do know that I believe truly and completely that God does not consider homosexuality to be a sin and I find that truth in the Bible.

I'm really tired of people acting like gay people are going to hell, thats ridiculous, God loves all of us. Gay or straight. But I guess that's just my view.

Btw, It also says that you aren't supposed to judge people in the bible, its not your place.

I hate it when people act like they have a choice over what sexuality they are.
There are so many people who have been punished, imprisoned, kicked out of their families and some even kill themselve because of the fact their gay.
If you could choose your sexuality, then why would any one pick to live like that?

^ That's part of my reasoning for believing that it isn't a choice. Although, many people are (and I guess should be) proud of the choices they make in life, so I guess some people could reason that it is a choice and that some gay/bi/etc people are willing to die for those beliefs.

And I quote from the book Sexuality Now chapter 1 - Exploring human Sexuality: Past and Present:

"Christianity began as a small sect following the teachings of Jesus. It was formalized as a religious philosphy by Paul and by other early leaders who were influenced by the Roman legal structure.

Jesus himself was mostly silent on sexual issues such as homosexuality or premarital sex. He was born a Jew and was knowledgeable in Jewish tradition, and many of his attitudes were compatible with mainstream Jewish thought of the time.

However, he was liberal in his thinking about sexuality, preaching that men should be held to the same standards as women on issues of adultery, divorce, and remarriage.

The Gospels also show that Jesus was liberal in his recommendations for punishing sexual misadventures. When confronted with a woman who had comitted adultery, a sin for which the Hebrew Bible had mandated stoning, Jesus replied "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Paul and later followers, such as St. Jerome and St. Augustine, established the Christian view of sexuality that was to dominate Western thought for the next 2,000 years.

St. Paul condemned sexuality in a way found neither in Hebrew nor Greek thought -nor anywherein the teachings of Jesus. Paul suggested that the hightest love was love of God and that the ideal was not to allow sexual or human love to compete with love for God, hence why the ideal situation was celibacy."

Take that conservatives.

I am a christian, but I have nothing against anyone homosexual, or bisexual, or so on. If they want to be with a person of the same gender, why not? It's their decision, not mine, and even then I would want whoever it is to be happy with the person they love instead of being unhappy with someone they're not.

My religion has almost no impact on the way I see homosexual people.

I don't like to incorporate sexuality with religion because there is no way that you can. In every religion it says that liking the same sex is a horrible crime and they are damned. Well, that is what I am lead to understand. Now I'm not sure if I have my own religion any more. I do believe in gay rights. I do believe that God loves them because they are his children. Me personally, I don't believe I have a sexuality really. They are two very complicated subjects to attempt to try and fuse together.

SammySuicide:

I don't like to incorporate sexuality with religion because there is no way that you can. In every religion it says that liking the same sex is a horrible crime and they are damned. Well, that is what I am lead to understand. Now I'm not sure if I have my own religion any more. I do believe in gay rights. I do believe that God loves them because they are his children. Me personally, I don't believe I have a sexuality really. They are two very complicated subjects to attempt to try and fuse together.

Quakers don't believe homosexuality is a sin. (Christian denomination, btw.) Any Christian denomination that truly follows the word of God would have to believe the same thing because the Bible explicitly states that we are not fit to judge other human beings. That is reserved for God and only God. Humans have sinned and therefore cannot be fit to judge sin. Otherwise they simply aren't following the word of God, rather putting themselves in the position of God to become a judge which, in itself, is a sin.