Religion and Homosexuality

VampShadsOwns:

what is intersex?

Don't you have a dictionary? Couldn't you google it?
I'm a big believer in being proactive finding things out rather than expecting the answer to be given to you every time. But anyway.
If you didn't already guess from the name, intersex means people who are neither one sex nor the other. Hermaphrodites is another word for it.

VampShadsOwns:

But, it is not what God intended. Therefore it is a sin in his eyes.

a) How do you know it's not what He intended? Did you ask?
b) Are cars a sin? Is hair dye a sin? Is surgery a sin?
c) If you believe it's biologically occurring, but a sin, then by logical deduction you must believe God created gay people simply to create a bunch of people who were sinners and couldn't control their sin. Does that sound like a God of love to you?
d) And if you believe it's not a sin, but you say it's a sin to God, well, you're contradicting yourself. You can't have it both ways.

---

Personally, I don't believe it's a sin. I believe God has no problem with gay people. Look at David and Jonathan.

VampShadsOwns:

Those are interesting. However, there are so many other things happening there. read this article as well.

Article

Also, I personally am not against homosexuals. I never have been,

I'm more likely to believe multiple article with multiple scientists input that one article. One article can be biased. That's why you're required to have more than one source for a research paper.

druscilla runaway.:

VampShadsOwns:

Those are interesting. However, there are so many other things happening there. read this article as well.

Article

Also, I personally am not against homosexuals. I never have been,

I'm more likely to believe multiple article with multiple scientists input that one article. One article can be biased. That's why you're required to have more than one source for a research paper.

i agree. Although it is possible for a group of people to be biased. I however doubt
there is an overwhelming chance of that happening.

Careless Whisper.:

I still wouldn't support it. I believe it is a sin. Regardless of whether or not the couple was Christian, I still wouldn't think it was right. Being a Christian doesn't exempt you from your wrong doings.

Wrong doings? Woah, harsh much?

By the way, just thought I'd bring up that people used to use the bible to justify not allowing interracial marriages...

druscilla's trapeze.:

By the way, just thought I'd bring up that people used to use the bible to justify not allowing interracial marriages...

Does it really say anything about interracial marriages in the bible? Wow.

druscilla's trapeze.:

VampShadsOwns:

But, it is not what God intended. Therefore it is a sin in his eyes.

a) How do you know it's not what He intended? Did you ask?
b) Are cars a sin? Is hair dye a sin? Is surgery a sin?
c) If you believe it's biologically occurring, but a sin, then by logical deduction you must believe God created gay people simply to create a bunch of people who were sinners and couldn't control their sin. Does that sound like a God of love to you?
d) And if you believe it's not a sin, but you say it's a sin to God, well, you're contradicting yourself. You can't have it both ways.

---

Personally, I don't believe it's a sin. I believe God has no problem with gay people. Look at David and Jonathan.

1. It says in the Bible which was inspired by God.
2. Objects are not a sin. It is the idea of materialism which is a sin. How we interact with thingss. God made ALL things and saw that they were good. It is humans who make things sinful.
3. God gave humans Free Will.

David loved Jon as a brother...they weren't gay.

And, I don't believe I'm contradicting myself.

VampShadsOwns:

1. It says in the Bible which was inspired by God.
2. Objects are not a sin. It is the idea of materialism which is a sin. How we interact with thingss. God made ALL things and saw that they were good. It is humans who make things sinful.
3. God gave humans Free Will.

David loved Jon as a brother...they weren't gay.

1.) Verse.
2.) God did not make cars. And since He didn't how do we know He intended for them to exist?
3.) Yes, God gave humans free will. Your sexuality, however, isn't a choice.

Bible verses show that they shared a romantic love. Some people don't believe it. Some do.

druscilla's trapeze.:

VampShadsOwns:

1. It says in the Bible which was inspired by God.
2. Objects are not a sin. It is the idea of materialism which is a sin. How we interact with thingss. God made ALL things and saw that they were good. It is humans who make things sinful.
3. God gave humans Free Will.

David loved Jon as a brother...they weren't gay.

1.) Verse.
2.) God did not make cars. And since He didn't how do we know He intended for them to exist?
3.) Yes, God gave humans free will. Your sexuality, however, isn't a choice.

Bible verses show that they shared a romantic love. Some people don't believe it. Some do.

1. TBA - my room is a sty...:S
2. God gave humans the means to make cars - he made metals etc - everything belongs to God. It is how we humans use them that is the sin/not the sin
3. Depends. I know lesbians who CHOOSE to be because they hate men. I also know that sexuality is not always a choice you make. But then we had a visiting priest who was gay - not by choice, but he hated being gay and he prayed to God and now he is no longer gay, and is married happily with a woman.

EDIT:

Human's who are 'hermaphradites' don't exist.

If a human has an XXY set of chromosomes they are still male.
If a human has XXX they are still female.

Even if they do have both sets of organs...it is the genes that determine whether you're male or female. If you have a Y-Chromosome...you are male. End of.

kafka.:

Careless Whisper.:

^ I disagree.

And what makes attraction between a man and a woman not sinful?

The fact that a man and a woman can produce babies together.
I personally think that to measure how true the feelings between to two people are to their ability to procreate is a disgusting out-dated way of thinking.

The marriage between a man and a woman isn't sinful because it is what God intended.

And yes, the fact that a man and a woman can produce children is part of it. Though that isn't the main point, I don't think. That's not the whole point of marriage.

I don't care if anyone thinks its "out-dated". I guess you can call me old-fashioned. I'll just call myself a follower of Christ.

:cute:

VampShadsOwns:

EDIT:

Human's who are 'hermaphradites' don't exist.

If a human has an XXY set of chromosomes they are still male.
If a human has XXX they are still female.

Even if they do have both sets of organs...it is the genes that determine whether you're male or female. If you have a Y-Chromosome...you are male. End of.

Okay, well, it's not really that simple, but let's run with it. So, if a genetically female baby is born with male parts, they can only marry a male? But wouldn't that make the male partner a homosexual since he's with someone who appears to be a male?

VampShadsOwns:

Human's who are 'hermaphradites' don't exist.

If a human has an XXY set of chromosomes they are still male.
If a human has XXX they are still female.

Even if they do have both sets of organs...it is the genes that determine whether you're male or female. If you have a Y-Chromosome...you are male. End of.

It's honestly not that simple, and I'm very close to (and actually used to date) someone who can tell you, with 100% conviction held up by personal experience, if you get my drift, that it's not. In a lot of cases, unfortunately, if babies are discovered to be hermaphrodites in any way and have surgery done to "correct" them (which is generally frowned upon now, true, and which I myself am against) the doctors honestly basically tell the parents, "Well, their genitals look more male-like / female-like, so we're just going to go ahead and run with that, and make it look male / female completely." Then the kid grows up. Cue the problems that can arise.

Things have gotten...a little better of late, since they're actually classifying the different types of hermaphrodism that occur, but even if scientifically you can say, "It's really just one or the other," morally, and if you have to live it, it really isn't.

Well, biologically hermaphrodism in humans is not true.
Emotionally, mentally, soul-ly, morally that may be a different case.

So, I agree with you there. However, biologically unles you're an invertebrate...humans cannot be hermaphrodites

So what should an intersex person do if they want to marry? What would God say?

Well, there's nothing in the Bible about it. As far as I know.

Careless Whisper.:

kafka.:

Careless Whisper.:

^ I disagree.

And what makes attraction between a man and a woman not sinful?

The fact that a man and a woman can produce babies together.
I personally think that to measure how true the feelings between to two people are to their ability to procreate is a disgusting out-dated way of thinking.

The marriage between a man and a woman isn't sinful because it is what God intended.

And yes, the fact that a man and a woman can produce children is part of it. Though that isn't the main point, I don't think. That's not the whole point of marriage.

I don't care if anyone thinks its "out-dated". I guess you can call me old-fashioned. I'll just call myself a follower of Christ.

:cute:

So what is the whole point of marriage then if only a man and a woman can get married?
Two people of the same gender can fall in love just as well as people with different genders can, so it can't be love/companionship/support, you say it's not just the fact that they can have children, what is it then?

Australian Aboriginals are not mentioned in the Bible. Does that mean that God intended for them not to exist?

On the same note, I like to think God didn't intend us to be discriminatory. Love thy neighbor and all, but I'm not a person with theological studies, I wouldn't know.

Australian Aboriginals are not mentioned because the Bible was not written by Australians.

Hmm...

I have a couple of points to make, so bear with me.

First: What people don't understand is that there is a difference between the christian Church and the christian Faith. The christian Church is what preaches that homosexuality is wrong, and the people who follow the Church, will soak that up. The christian Faith, however, says that God loves everyone, no matter what, and He created everyone perfectly. Therefore, if Gay people were made from God, then God must not have a problem with homosexuality.

Second: As far as Gay marriage goes, the mistake Christians (or anyone of any religion who opposes gay marriage...) made, was involving the State with their marriages. Now it's become a legal issue, and not a Church issue, and they really have no control over it, because as the polls stated last time I checked, more people are for gay marriage then opposed. If Christians hadn't involved marriage with the state, then gays just wouldn't be allowed to get married. done deal. Because the Church would be their own little club, and they would be allowed to include or exclude people as they pleased.
Obviously, back in the day when the government was first involving marriage with law, it wasn't forseen that this would become an issue. Just making a point.

Third: I have come up with THE best argument for gay marriage, and why it should be legal in every state in ths US. It is Unconstitutional to deny somebody their rights, based on religion, color, social status, or Gender. And since Marriage is a legal right, by denying a couple to marry simply because they're both the same gender.... well, it's simply unconstitutional.

And finally, as just a closing, I do very strongly believe the Marriage should be legal for everybody, heterosexual, homosexual, bi, tri, omnisexual, asexual... whatever. Live and let live, love and let love. XD

druscilla's trapeze.:

Cresent_Moon_126:

I'm a christian, and I believe that you have a choice to be homosexual, no one forces you to be gay, God doesn't decide whether you're going to be gay or not, as you live, you choose that path.

Christians aren't supposed to judge, but they're not suposed to sympathize either. If you want to find out whether being homosexual is a sin, by the biblical purposes, it's in the bible. Specifiacally in the bible, which is why most churches don't let homosexuals in the church.
Killing someone or being gay according to God, is still sin in God's eyes.

Yet you never hear any people talking about how they chose to be straight. (Unless they're "reformed" gays.)
God made us. God made us with the sexual orientation we are. Because it's not a choice. Science and doctors and psychology have proven that.
Being homosexual is never specified as a sin in the Bible.
Tell me, when did you make the conscious decision to be heterosexual?
And, please, tell me when I made the conscious decision to be pansexual. Because I was confused about my sexual orientation for nearly five years.

Actually, Leviticus 18:22 states "Do not lie with a man as on does with a woman; That is abonination."

Sorry, I'm not saying I agree with it, because I honestly think the Bible is crap... just making a correction. Though it never exactly says "Don't be Gay" It does make statements as written above...

Although, many historians have claimed that in those days, abomination didn't mean evil, it meant dirty. So maybe they were referencing to the fact that it was dirty to have sex without the purpose of making children, and two men/two women can't make a child.

Oh, and never let anyone try to throw Sodom and Gomora (Genesis 19) in your face. It never states the sin that God destroyed the cities for. Many historians believe the sin was Greed, not homosexuality.

Wow... sorry to go off on a tangent. I just read alot of religious texts. Know alot about them...