Ghosts

I believe in them, the amount of people -who I know are not liars and I trust completely- that have told me about experiences to do with ghosts even though I haven't experienced anything like it have got me convinced.

I've done a lot of research on the subject as well and I think there is too much evidence to ignore supporting the existence of ghosts. Yes, there is evidence against it - but really they haven't been proved to not exist yet and I haven't found totally solid evidence.

^ As I said earlier in the thread; there's no proof that they don't exist because you can't possibly have "proof that something doesn't exist".

I have yet to see any even vaguely convincing evidence in favour of the paranormal, and I think what is considered evidence for them can easily be debunked.

Alex; periphery.:

Mm. I'm perplexed by all the people who come onto this thread and say "I've seen/heard enough evidence..." without providing any examples. Why not go into detail? I assume that people assume that nobody likes a tl;dr post, but I love when other people write long posts. Give us your evidence, people!

@ Alex; periphery.
I've thought about the psychics and lottery deal too. It's things like that that make not believe in the supernatural.

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Still, when it comes to night and the dark, I'm the kind of person to strictly insist there's only ghosts and other beings floating around when things go bump. My beliefs are driven by fear. During the day, and when I'm calm, I say that, no, ghosts aren't real. Maybe they exist only to certain people.

I can't help but wonder what this thread is doing in the Science forum...

@ Quirky
Exactly what I was wondering. I would think World would be a better sub-forum.

I was thinking Religion actually, since spirits, angels, gods, etc. are supernatural phenomena, and becoming a ghost is a kind of afterlife. But maybe that's a stretch. World seems more general, so it's probably a better fit. After four years, I am still learning my way around the forums.

Either way, the existence of ghosts is not supported by science.

I definitely believe in ghosts and the paranormal in general. Too many things have happened to me in my life to not believe in it. I've seen things that can't possibly be just "coincidence" or "hallucination." I mean, the closet door in our hallway opened by itself the other day and it's never done that before, and there was no way a breeze could have done it because A) the door was tightly shut and B) it's too heavy to be moved by a breeze either way...I've tried it to disprove it should it ever happen.

I've also heard things in our house that can't be explained as hallucination or anything like that. Not voices, per se, just things, like muted conversations when no one else is in the house but me. I've heard footsteps, seen shadows when there was no way for a shadow to be made. To me, that's evidence. I know that no one else can really fully take me at my word on that because they didn't experience it, and I'm fine with that. I think the paranormal is something that you truly have to experience firsthand to believe in.

I believe in the possibility of ghosts. But with no proof that it exists--as well as proof that it doesn't exist--I'll never be sure. That is also the way I think about aliens.

@ lila hyde.
There is no such thing as "proof of non-existence". You can prove things do exist, but you cannot prove that things don't exist. The total lack of proof of existence is, in and of itself, basically "proof of non-existence".

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Honestly, I can't think of anything I believe in less than ghosts, as well as all things paranormal in general (except for aliens, but that's much, much different imo). There is zero proof in their existence and the "proof" that people do come up with is more often than not easily proven invalid. Plus, most of this so-called "evidence" is anecdotal, which holds little to no merit.

When people try to tell me about their or their friend's "experiences" with ghosts, I can't help but roll my eyes. I know that's harsh but c'mon, really? And I think when people claim to have seen ghosts, those "sightings" are just them very badly wanting to believe in the existence of ghosts and that fear/excitement/whatever manifesting itself in the form of contrived visual/auditory hallucinations. The human mind is a powerful thing in that respect.

But no, as far as I'm concerned, to non-existence of ghosts is, to me, a fact.

chai latte:

The total lack of proof of existence is, in and of itself, basically "proof of non-existence".

I'm confused, because you said that there's no such thing as "proof of non-existence" (and you're quite right!), but then you said that the fact that there's no proof is in itself "proof of non-existence".

The statements just seemed to contradict each other.

@ Alex; periphery.
Gah, I know. I reread that right after I posted it and realized how dumb it sounded. Like, obviously there's no proof of non-existence, but I guess what I was trying to say is that the lack of proof of existence is the closest thing to "proof of non-existence" you're going to get (since some people are so hell-bent on wanting "proof of non-existence" and don't understand that there's no such thing). Like... when there is absolutely no evidence that something exists, than that should usually bring you to the conclusion that ghosts (or whatever else) do not exist.

Does that make any sense at all? I know exactly what I mean in my head, but I can't find a good way to articulate it.

^ I know what you mean. I wouldn't say that absence of proof makes it 100% safe to assume absence of ghosts, but I certainly don't see why people should be expected to believe in them without some substantial evidence. Funnily enough, that substantial evidence never turns up.

@ Alex; periphery.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. You said it much better than me. And I agree. I mean, for me it's very easy to dismiss anything that has no solid evidence (hence why I'm also an atheist), but I certainly wouldn't expect everyone else to discredit things so easily. I mean, at one point in time there was no proof of the Big Bang, but as technology developed we found that evidence and now can say that it almost surely occurred. So maybe a hundred years from now, there will be proof that ghosts exist. Until then, though...

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To get back on-topic, I think one reason I have such a hard time taking "ghosts" seriously is because I don't really know what they're supposed to be, and there seems to be a lot of different definitions. Like, are they souls who've come back to haunt people? Are they souls that never made it to Heaven/Hell/whatever? Are they not souls at all? Do demons count as ghosts? Is there a difference between a spirit and a ghost? Etc etc etc. There's just so many possible questions that will never have answers.

^ Well I can answer one of those; demons are considered to be inhuman creatures, while ghosts are pretty much always considered to be human souls, or ex-humans.

I strongly believe in ghosts, demons, spirits, whatever. I was brought up to believe in them but I've also had experiences to know that they are real. Not only do I see them with my eyes but I dream about them too.

My example of dreaming. My mom's real dad died when I was six. He lived in Mexico, Cuba and Las Vegas for most of my life so I only got to see him on special occasions. His mom, my mom's grandma, and my great-grandma I saw all the time. A year ago my mom got a call that Grams was on life support and she didn't have much longer. So we drove to the nursing home to say our goodbyes.

I don't talk to that family anymore so we were all catching up while sitting around my Grams dying body. Once visiting hours were over, my mom and I promised to come back tomorrow for one final goodbye.

That night I had a strange dream. It was of me and my grandpa. We were walking around a neighborhood with a Scooby-doo dog. My grandpa was going on and on telling me that he was sorry for not spending more time with me when I was young and that he never got a chance to meet my brother in person. But he promised me that he had always been there. He also told me that he was excited to finally get to be with his mom again.

When I woke up, I immediately told my mom and she began to cry. My grandpa had spoken to me. He also had a great dane that died before I was born. When I retold the story to Gran I saw her smile; she died that night. She was excited to be greeted by her son and his dog.

Okay so now to talk about my experiences with seeing and hearing ghosts.

In my old house, which was built somewhere in the 1800's, I had two ghosts. One was an old man with a either a top hat of cowboy hat on. The other one was a young boy. The old man spends most of his time in my brother's room (even when we moved, he came with us and now occupies my brothers new room). I see him crossing in front of my door to go into my brothers room at least once a week. My brother has trouble sleeping because of him but it's not that big of a deal, he's just spooked.

The little boy is vocal and loves to play! He likes to follow me around, hide my jewelry, open doors and drawers. One time while my dad was laying in bed watching TV, the little boy came into his room and was bouncing a tennis ball and threw it up onto the bed. My dad grumbled something about how he couldn't get it now, when he saw the covers indent with hands and knee marks and the ball flew back off the bed. The little boy also like to call out for my mom, he just screams for her and normally she comes running thinking that it's me or my brother, but it's the ghost.

Another thing, it probably wasn't the smartest thing I've done but it doesn't mean I'm not going to do it again. Ouija boards. They are real people! I asked the board if it knew what my name was and it spelled COLLEEN. That's not my name but that's my moms name. So I asked why he(we were talking to a boy) called me that and he responded with LOOKS. My mom and I are the sitting image of each other and I am frequently mistaken for her, I guess in the ghost world it's no different. I went on to ask specific things about myself that nobody should know and someone they were always answered correctly. It was an amazing experience.

Now for the bad experience of it. Probably about three+ months after the whole Ouija board thing something happened. I woke up with the sound of a horrible crash. I look around my room to see my HUGE, old, boxy tv from like the 90's had been pushed one way off my dresser while the dresser was laying the opposite way on the ground. It freaked my parents out and they rushed downstairs thinking someone was breaking in but I told them what happened and they brushed it off and went back to bed. I looked at my clock the moment it happened and it was 3 A.M, the witching hour. To make matters worse I sleep with my door open so my four pound cat can come in and out at night. I was laying facing away from the door when I felt her crawl up against the curve of my back. I reached back to pet her but only felt air, but the pressure of something leaning up against my back was still there, as if someone was sitting against it. I cried myself to sleep that night then the next morning I smudged the fuck out of my house. No more problems.

That was a lot to write but everyone was saying that they wanted examples. Those were mine.

I highly believe in ghosts, but I suppose they like to be called Spirits. My first experience is when I was about 8 and saw a woman outside, staring at me. She had locked me out of my house. (Weirdly enough about a month ago my brother saw her again, in the exact same spot) The most best experiences I have ever had was when my grandmother passed away in April. We all are believers and have devices that capture their voices since they are on a different frequency, anyway, her death was....not good and we worried for her mental health on the other side. I've heard a lot of shows that investigate the paranormal sometimes don't get voices or things but every time we do a session we get voices from her and her son who died ten years ago. It's truly amazing and I love the fact we can talk to her whenever we want to. I heard speaking to them let's in less desired spirits but lately we haven't had anything because my uncle (her son who died) tells us he walks through and gets them out. Another experience I've had, that relates to 'different' spirits is that I have a man who wears odd clothing, he speaks to me in my mind (I've been told several times I'm sensitive) and stays in my room. He sent me a dream about a month ago because I wanted to know who he was but my grandmother couldn't see him (Though there were extremely high frequencies in my room once and she told me he 'scared her'). The dream showed him but instead of speaking, he showed me a bunch of photos to portray his words. Come to find out (I highly doubt the man is lying but who knows) he's on a different class of spirits, too high for my grandmother to notice. This might sound totally wacky and for a while I thought I was going insane but he told me he was a Dijinn. Yeah, not kidding and his descriptions of what he has showed me match up. He protects me yet I know there's something off about him. Weird thing is, I see him. Literally see him like he was a solid person and not in my side view or just a passing glance. This has happened about 5 times in the last two months and I know for certain he's something a little different.

I do believe it ghosts.. My uncle died around 2 years ago. Me and my mom came back from holiday one day, a pear was on my bed. That was his favorite fruit. I got spooked, but I would like to think that my uncle is actually still alive in one way. I mean, I look at it like even though I can't see Tony, he is still with me, watching over me and smiling at me.

The feels I just got from writing that small paragraph

I believe in ghosts. My gma used to tell me when I was a child about them which got me interested. Our old mobile home was haunted, but I never saw anything, and if I did I was so young that I don't remember. My gma used to see a man and my gpa would see a woman. We got a new mobile home when I was 5. Nothing weird happened at first until a few years ago.

We used to have this old radio inside in one of the rooms. It would randomly turn itself on and change the channel to a country station. It did this once when it was unplugged. This was when I was 12 or 13 years old. Now the really weird stuff started happening just a couple years ago.

One time I got up to go get something to eat. In the hallway I saw this dark shadow of a man. I thought it might have been my uncle coming back in from smoking outside or something since it was like midnight. I couldn't tell since it was dark. I stood against the wall and waited for him to pass, but it didn't move. I cautiously walked on and went right through it. Turned around and the figure was no longer there.

Another time I was getting ready to go to sleep at around 5 a.m. My sister was asleep on my daybed (I guess that's what it was called) and everyone else was asleep in the house as well. I started hearing voices outside. I couldn't make out the words, but could hear them clearly. It's like when you hear someone talking but they make no sense at all. An hour later I told my gpa when he got up and he went outside and nobody was here.

Just in the last year my wallet and some of my other stuff that sits on the shelf of my bookcase would randomly fall. Note that is usually is always there and doesn't get touched. It's also far enough back that it couldn't just fall.

Also last year I was in my room and my Wii turned on. I used the remote to turn it back off. A second later it came back on again. I turned it off and went to see if it was my siblings messing with me. Only my sister was here and she had been outside. I had no idea how it kept coming back on.

Earlier this year I was in the living room home alone and it was early in the morning. I was standing in front of the t.v. changing the channel so I could play my N64. I felt a presence behind me and out of the corner of my eye I could see a man. When I turned it was gone.

In the past few months I would lay in bed at night listening to my iPod. I would feel like I was being watched. I opened my eyes and near my desk I saw a dark figure. I would usually use my iPod to shine light that way because it gave off this bad vibe to me. It didn't really scare me, but I didn't like the feeling.

Everyone in my family has had weird stuff happen. More so recently. It's weird. We've heard whispering, random stuff falling that has been in the same place for a long time, stuff disappears then reappears, and stuff that will turn on by itself.

So, yeah. I actually believe in ghosts. It's actually one of the few things I have interest in.

Ghosts (or spirits, what-have-you) are definitely real to me. I can't explain it, but it's just so... logical to me. I've lived in a few houses that were haunted, and while I, personally, haven't had moments in the houses, my Uncle who was house-sitting said that there was something inside. We brushed him off, but it still stuck with me.

Another thing: Imaginary friends. We all had them when we were little, yes? Around five or six years old? Our minds are very imaginative, yes, but how would we possibly know things that are beyond our years?

For example: My "imaginary" friend's name was Rage. He was in a rock band and he played the drums. He had spiky dark hair that was in a mohawk and he had green eyes. He was very pale and very tall. I remember that he used to wear a lot of leather and spikes, but I honestly thought nothing of it. In a dream he showed me how he played the drums. (I also might've had the biggest crush on him known to mankind at the very tender age of six. He was like, nineteen years old.) And you know the usual things with imaginary friends: saving them a seat wherever you went, reminding your parents that you were waiting on your friend, the friend following you to places that you went... How could one's mind make something up like that when you're so small? I can't see it. Not to mention the various other reasons that imaginary friends could be ghosts.

I believe in them, and I don't think that's ever going to change.