Is God Real?

Donks:

But by the same token, I believe that there was once a polkadott spoon which sat on my desk whilst I was out one night, and it was put there and taken away by a bird. No one saw it happen, but no one saw that it didn't happen, and I really, truly believe. Let's say I felt the spoon's presence, or had a vision when I was out and it was going on?

Is this enough to prove that the spoon existed and was there on my desk?

It exists in one of the many dimensions that branched off and were created when the idea ran through your head. So yes, in one sense, it does. :tehe: (Many worlds theory, I think.)
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You can't prove anything either way. Either you believe, and that is proof enough for you, or you don't, and as such, cannot see the proof that believers offer you. You have to find your own proof, as silly as that might sound.

I believe one solid piece of evidence for God is morality.

Science can never explain morality. Therefore, I believe the feeling of morality (conscience) is the Holy Spirit speaking inside of you.

There will always be things in life we can never know, and must have faith in. These little fissures in knowledge are the places where God can be found...unless you're happy in refraining from speculation on such matters as the unprovable...

^Morality has been explained through evolution.

If you're nice to someone, they're more likely to be nice back and so you will gain things in life, particularly the company of others, which the majority of the population seeks. These people are more likely to procreate than those who are avoided because they are horrible to everyone.

JustSteph:

^Morality has been explained through evolution.

If you're nice to someone, they're more likely to be nice back and so you will gain things in life, particularly the company of others, which the majority of the population seeks. These people are more likely to procreate than those who are avoided because they are horrible to everyone.

But ethics go beyond altruism and approach the question of what is just.
From my experience, people, in general, are rarely overly altruistic, but most of us have a sense of right and wrong. And what's right is not always what's "nice" to do e.g. revenge or war might be "right" in some societies but that doesn't mean that they have an altruistic nature.
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Donks:

But by the same token, I believe that there was once a polkadott spoon which sat on my desk whilst I was out one night, and it was put there and taken away by a bird. No one saw it happen, but no one saw that it didn't happen, and I really, truly believe. Let's say I felt the spoon's presence, or had a vision when I was out and it was going on?

Is this enough to prove that the spoon existed and was there on my desk?

Firstly your spoon didn't create the whole world and thus it can only exist within it, while God exists outside the world too, and secondly, let's assume that a spoon does sit on your desk, try to prove that it exists.

kafka.:

JustSteph:

^Morality has been explained through evolution.

If you're nice to someone, they're more likely to be nice back and so you will gain things in life, particularly the company of others, which the majority of the population seeks. These people are more likely to procreate than those who are avoided because they are horrible to everyone.

But ethics go beyond altruism and approach the question of what is just.
From my experience, people, in general, are rarely overly altruistic, but most of us have a sense of right and wrong. And what's right is not always what's "nice" to do e.g. revenge or war might be "right" in some societies but that doesn't mean that they have an altruistic nature.

Being "nice" was just an example. My main point is that you get some kind of reward for it. If, at the end of the war, there is peace, then that is the reward.

And if doing what is right isn't always what's "nice" then it seems to me that the Bible's teachings are wrong since it's always telling people to be nice to one another, but, as you've pointed out, it's not always the right thing to do.

I think the fact that we can actually alter someone's personality debunks the whole "morality comes from the holy spirit" schtick.

Someone's personality is what really determines how they act around people. Take Phineas Gage. He had an accident where a tamping iron entered underneath his left cheek bone and exited out of the top of his head. He survived, but his personality drastically changed. He was once a nice man, but after the incident, he became impatient and belligerent.

Dancing Caveman:

I think the fact that we can actually alter someone's personality debunks the whole "morality comes from the holy spirit" schtick.

Someone's personality is what really determines how they act around people. Take Phineas Gage. He had an accident where a tamping iron entered underneath his left cheek bone and exited out of the top of his head. He survived, but his personality drastically changed. He was once a nice man, but after the incident, he became impatient and belligerent.

Can you, though?
You can't really change people who have personality disorders, though. From what I know. I mean, you can change a personality physically if you brain-damage a person. But it isn't as simple as 'altering' a personality, like you can't press the reset button on people with mental health issues and fix them in that way. There is rarely an easy solution. Even if you're talking about ECT (electric shock therapy), people don't necessarily know why that works, if it does at all.

^Well, people's personalities can be altered. They aren't anymore because doing lobotomies and other things that cause brain damage are considered to be entirely unethical.

But the frontal lobe of a human brain is what, essentially, makes a human a human. If you damage that, the person loses who they are. It's why Phineas Gage seemed to become an entirely different person- his frontal lobe was damaged after the tamping iron went through it.

Of course there is God! Who do you think comes up with ideas for all the sims games?!

germfree:

Of course there is God! Who do you think comes up with ideas for all the sims games?!

How about EA games. Or are you just joking?

I was being sarcastic. Of course EA comes up with ideas for the sims games.

Nose Candy:

Cresent_Moon_126:

God is real.
There's proof all around us, even if scientists can explain how everything was made, it doesn't erase the fact that God caused it to happen.
The Earth, the galaxy, the moon, etc.

And, no one has ever seen God and lived. They can feel him, and talk to him, but you can't see him.

I think that if you actually believe, and want to feel his presence, it will happen.

And once you have been in his presence, you'll know. No questions asked.

Well, that's my take on it.

That sounds like you have faith God is real. Saying that God caused everything to happen doesn't make God real.

Actually, you're absolutely right. Faith is proof that God is real. Without faith it's impossible to actually believe there's a God.

Personally, I don't believe in the big bang theory. But during the creation of the world by God he could have caused it.

kafka.:

Donks:

But by the same token, I believe that there was once a polkadott spoon which sat on my desk whilst I was out one night, and it was put there and taken away by a bird. No one saw it happen, but no one saw that it didn't happen, and I really, truly believe. Let's say I felt the spoon's presence, or had a vision when I was out and it was going on?

Is this enough to prove that the spoon existed and was there on my desk?

Firstly your spoon didn't create the whole world and thus it can only exist within it, while God exists outside the world too, and secondly, let's assume that a spoon does sit on your desk, try to prove that it exists.

I honestly believe that it is this exact spoon that created our universe. I didn't know how to put this into words up until recently, but now that I've read that post, I just know this is our Creator. I had a dream when I was hitting the rock bottom, my life in ruins, and I had a vision of this, I may now say with certainty, spoon. It really helped me out and now I am a functional member of society, once again. I realize my belief may be subject to ridicule, but I hope everyone soon realize the same thing I have and find themselves in the teachings of the Spoon. (ok the teachings aren't entirely finished, we just need to gather up some followers and sort out what visions and beliefs are truly the words of our Spoon and remove those that aren't)

Cresent_Moon_126:

Nose Candy:

Cresent_Moon_126:

God is real.
There's proof all around us, even if scientists can explain how everything was made, it doesn't erase the fact that God caused it to happen.
The Earth, the galaxy, the moon, etc.

And, no one has ever seen God and lived. They can feel him, and talk to him, but you can't see him.

I think that if you actually believe, and want to feel his presence, it will happen.

And once you have been in his presence, you'll know. No questions asked.

Well, that's my take on it.

That sounds like you have faith God is real. Saying that God caused everything to happen doesn't make God real.

Actually, you're absolutely right. Faith is proof that God is real. Without faith it's impossible to actually believe there's a God.

Personally, I don't believe in the big bang theory. But during the creation of the world by God he could have caused it.

So is he still causing it?

^ I don't get it, still causing what?

Cresent_Moon_126:

Actually, you're absolutely right. Faith is proof that God is real. Without faith it's impossible to actually believe there's a God.

If a kid has faith Santa Claus is real it doesn't mean that proves Santa exists.

It's the same deal with this. Faith isn't actually 'proof' he's real. Faith is the belief and trust that he's real, but it isn't proof by any stretch of the imagination.

Nose Candy:

Cresent_Moon_126:

Actually, you're absolutely right. Faith is proof that God is real. Without faith it's impossible to actually believe there's a God.

If a kid has faith Santa Claus is real it doesn't mean that proves Santa exists.

It's the same deal with this. Faith isn't actually 'proof' he's real. Faith is the belief and trust that he's real, but it isn't proof by any stretch of the imagination.

I wonder who started the whole Santa Clause thing.

Faith is indeed weird...
I wonder if other animals are capable of having faith?
Hmm.....

kafka.:

Donks:

But by the same token, I believe that there was once a polkadot spoon which sat on my desk whilst I was out one night, and it was put there and taken away by a bird. No one saw it happen, but no one saw that it didn't happen, and I really, truly believe. Let's say I felt the spoon's presence, or had a vision when I was out and it was going on?

Is this enough to prove that the spoon existed and was there on my desk?

Firstly your spoon didn't create the whole world and thus it can only exist within it, while God exists outside the world too, and secondly, let's assume that a spoon does sit on your desk, try to prove that it exists.

The spoon was carried away by a bird. It's no longer on the desk.
Prove that god exists.

Cresent_Moon_126:

^ I don't get it, still causing what?

The Big Bang.