Friedrich Nietzsche

My girlfriend's trying to get me into his stuff, I just don't understand philosophy though.

I've never read any of his books, but I would like to; I enjoy philosophy, and I really like some of Nietzsche's quotes, such as:

'Without music, life would be a mistake.'
'There is always some madness in love. But there is always some reason in madness.'
'And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.'
'Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.'

i think nietzsche is a genius, however i don't like the tone he sets. he is more than willing to let you as the reader/student/scholar know that you aren't worthy to read or understand his works. no me gusta lo.

I'm no scholar at all and haven't read any of his works, (yet) but for what I do understand a lot of his ideas were exemplified in "The Fountainhead" and especially "Atlas Shrugged". Obviously they aren't the same philosophy and there are some major differences, but there are still similarities that bring a lot of his concepts to light. (I'm thinking specifically about the ideal person Rand centers her stories around)

I had come to many of the same conclusions as Nietzsche outlines in his work (namely his perspective on morality, and being largely (if not entirely) Nihilistic) before I was aware of him.
I found a quote of his that more or less stated exactly what I had come to believe, and discovered him that way.
Eventually I found a volume of two of his works The Birth of Tragedy and The Genealogy of Morals at a spiritual retreat of all the unlikely places, where I worked briefly as a cleaner. I stole it, which I still find vaguely ironic.

I'm somewhat fascinated with Nietzsche, he was the first straight up philosopher I've read, most everyone else I've read dabbled strongly in philosophy, but never took that leap.

I enjoy philosophy, especially those more stoic philosophies that disillusion you rather than try to convince you of a utopia or mystical ideal. I like harsh realities, or if not those realities themselves, the people who are willing to express them. Nietzsche is definitely one of those; he's direct, stern, I actually smile sort of fondly at his rants about people and their various weaknesses.
I even agree with most of what he had to say on ethics and morality, and his views on religion I also like.
He talked a lot about letting the strong be strong, and the weak fend for themselves, and I have mixed feelings about that, or how he would characterize those things.
I don't believe in pity, but I value compassion. I don't believe in extreme self sacrifice, but I believe in doing what you can. I'm not sure how far he took his beliefs in that scenario.

I think Nietzsche is fascinating, and I enjoy his work. He had a command over words, and he was passionate without being whimsical or frilly.

The Ron Swanson of philosophy.

I always considered Nietzsche to be pretty down to earth. Main points I took from his readings:

-Christianity is a construct, made by the weak to control the strong
-Everyone is inherently Christian because we uphold a majority of Christian values
-Morality is Christian by default
-Morality is made to control the strong

I always thought how true this is, and how, unlike Nietzsche, I'm super okay with my Christian morals. I think they are fundamental to the society we live in. It's a fresh view but I remember reading in another's work how important it was to keep religion/personal out of politics and that is the reason for our political downfall whereas original politics in Greece/Rome flourished because they kept it political. If Nietzsche is right, then our morality is the cause of our undoing. I don't know what this means exactly, but it's implications aren't good.

@ james ford
Where'd you get a pro-christianity reading from Nietzsche? Or a pro-any religion, actually. I haven't read On the Genealogy of Morality in a while, but I distinctly remember him disliking any sort of 'group think' kind of deal.

@ CallusedSilk

Oh man, he hates religion. I feel as though I worded what I said ambiguously, for which I apologize.

Nietzsche thought religion was created by the weak (people who couldn't defend themselves physically) to control those who could. Religion introduced basic morality (i.e treat others the way you would want to be treated, ect.) which means that our society is based on Christianity. We are super sensitive to others, we generally don't kill or harm. Even when someone has done us a deep wrong such as violate these morals.

Another separate piece I read (I can't remember the author which kind of makes it a null point, maybe Hannah Arendt?) stated that religion (so in this case, our purposed Christian morality) has no place in politics as it is personal.

So technically what Nietzsche says is that we are all inherently Christian if we believe killing is wrong, raping is wrong, harming another is wrong. He was certainly not happy about it but that was the conclusion I came to.

I really don't want to agree with it. But it does make a ton of sense, and it explains the impact Christianity had on our society and possibly how the Bible was created.

On the other hand, I enjoy JJ Rousseau's 'savage man' because I like to believe we are born with morality.

@ james ford
Except that from what I could tell, his point was that society introduced morality on its own. Also, Christianity isn't the oldest religion, so it still wouldn't be based on Christianity. The oldest law book predates Christianity. Also, there's plenty of passages in the bible that advocate a lack of sensitivity, killing or harming others, especially when the person did something to violate those 'morals'.

I respect your opinion, but I still am not seeing how you drew that conclusion. If anything, he questioned whether morality was anything and what it actually meant to have it. The conclusion of it being directly tied to any religion wasn't something I ever saw in his writings. After all, bible passages don't actually strictly say raping someone else is wrong. Especially since int he passages that do talk about it, the rapist is required to pay a husband if he rapes another man's wife. However, if a man rapes a single woman then she's supposed to marry him or she is the one that's punished.

So I respect the fact that you put a lot of credence in Christianity and that you seem to be a moral, intelligent person. I just can't agree with you on Christianity being the basis for morality or that Nietzsche ever said that either.

I haven't read enough of philosophy to know who my views on morality meet up with.

@ CallusedSilk

Except 'Beyond Good and Evil' is literally exactly what I am talking about. Christian morality stops us from doing the things that we want to do. Sin is evil, and if we sin we do not go to heaven. It limits our human wants and our sexuality. Christian morality devalues your actual life (to an extent) and we place faith in it over our health and strength in life. It confines us in a box and kills our curiosity. According to Nietzsche.

Nietzsche wanted society to replace Christian morality. He wanted the readers to recognize that it was an outdated morality and that we should use our knowledge of Christian morality and our honest discretion when making decisions about what we truly want from life and not let these basic rules inhibit our experience. If you want to kill someone, you should do it. Hell you don't want to kill someone? Don't. At least you're being honest with yourself. He believed we would become a healthier species from this revelation.

I only side with Christian morals because of this single point. Nietzsche says be yourself. Some people are really fucked up and shouldn't do every little thing their hearts desire.

Morality isn't Christian. Jean-Jacques Rousseau wrote in the 'Basic Political Writings' that the savage man displayed pity and morality just as easily (if not more so) than civilized man. That in learning possession and privatized land we lost our ability to be truly moral. But when Nietzsche refers to morality, he is talking about Christian morality.

Why? Because it was the morality of his time, and the morality he hated most.

And he uses the term Christian morality. The book is called Beyond Good and Evil. He is literally referring to Christianity. Beyond what they consider good and evil, there is Nietzsche following his hearts desires.