Proposed (and Approved) Mosque at Ground Zero in NYC

Sheepy:

^It's exceedingly depressing, but it's the status quo. Look at the massive shitstorm created over that Florida pastor. No way, someone somewhere's doing something that's religiously insensitive? Breaking news!

You said they "weren't on the same scale", while saying that numbers don't matter because all death is tragic. Was just a little jarring for me as far as consecutive statements go.

But if we are talking numbers, 9/11 was utterly brutal, it killed a staggering amount of innocent people for one attack. But if we're talking scale, I'd just flick a wrist at just how many civillians got killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...But either way...don't see the connection between a community center and 19 hijackers.

Why don't you want religious places near Ground Zero again?

It isn't a place to go to worship a god, it's a place of mourning.

^So how far away should religious places be from places of mourning?

Sheepy:

^So how far away should religious places be from places of mourning?

It's not a question of distance, it's a matter of how appropriate it is.

wastingpaper:

It isn't a place to go to worship a god, it's a place of mourning.

Aren't the majority of funeral services held in churches or have some form of religious representation there?

wastingpaper:

It's not a question of distance, it's a matter of how appropriate it is.

So when is it appropriate?

acetylene virgin:

Aren't the majority of funeral services held in churches or have some form of religious representation there?

If 100% of the people in 9/11 were Catholic, Muslim, etc it would be appropriate to build a Church or Mosque there, but they weren't all of the same religion.

Sheepy:

So when is it appropriate?

It's not a question of 'we can build ___ because we waited long enough' either. I think it's more to do with the circumstances, the backgrounds of the people who died, what is being proposed etc.

None of this even matters anyways, the Mosque has been approved to be built there.

^Well if no religious buildings should ever be built on sites of mourning, then why does the background of the people matter at all?

Sheepy:

^Well if no religious buildings should ever be built on sites of mourning, then why does the background of the people matter at all?

If it was something they would have all wanted then it matters.

wastingpaper:

If 100% of the people in 9/11 were Catholic, Muslim, etc it would be appropriate to build a Church or Mosque there, but they weren't all of the same religion.

But it's not at Ground Zero. It's two blocks away where a Burlington Coat Factory used to be. It's not like the community center is going up on top of the rubble.

wastingpaper:

If it was something they would have all wanted then it matters.

So religious buildings should only be in places where everyone who perished near it should posthumously agree to its existence?

Sheepy:

So religious buildings should only be in places where everyone who perished near it should posthumously agree to its existence?

That way there'd be no controversy, would there?

^...That way there'd be no buildings.

I have the inclination that the reason people object to buildings of religion does not have its sole and only cause in that people who died in the vicinity of its location may or may not have agreed to it being there. Nor that controversy is only caused because people can't ask the dead permission.

wastingpaper:

That way there'd be no controversy, would there?

Yes, there would.
There'd be controversy over whether or not to build the building in the first place.

You don't take away the rights of people just because some of them are ignorant and prejudiced.

I mean, please. America's the "freedom-of-religion"-and-all-that-stuff country. It's in the Constitution (I think... I kinda got a B- in Civics.)

vintage anxiety.:

I mean, please. America's the "freedom-of-religion"-and-all-that-stuff country. It's in the Constitution (I think... I kinda got a B- in Civics.)

Yea, it's in there. But I guess some people think the Constitution should be objective....

England's Dreaming:

vintage anxiety.:

I mean, please. America's the "freedom-of-religion"-and-all-that-stuff country. It's in the Constitution (I think... I kinda got a B- in Civics.)

Yea, it's in there. But I guess some people think the Constitution should be objective....

(I wasn't serious. What a lame joke, I know.)

wastingpaper:

It isn't a place to go to worship a god, it's a place of mourning.

Plenty of other places in plenty of other cities have had atrocities happen there and then they've been built over again. I don't know how many people are familiar with the Blitz, but London was bombed for 76 nights straight by the Nazi Luftwaffe, and really, a city doesn't survive that type of bombing without having almost 30,000 civilian deaths and over a million buildings destroyed. And that was just London. I believe almost all of Coventry was destroyed and less than a quarter of Hull was left undamaged. But we can't make these entire cities hallowed ground or places of mourning. Because life goes on and maybe the Blitz matters less because we mourn differently in Britain or the Nazis weren't terrorists so it isn't as bad. But still. Life has to go on and it's not like they're even building a Mosque in the rubble.

wastingpaper:

i meant more so xenophobic american's who kind of blame all muslims for what happened when it was only 19 extremists who carried out those attacks. i can see where you might have gotten confused, didn't word my original post too well

So, I have a fear of spiders. That doesn't mean I'm going to go anywhere within two blocks of me and squish every spiderweb in existence. We shouldn't take a few people's fear into account when it comes to peoples rights. The KKK have a fear of colored people, that doesn't mean we should take colored people's rights away, right?

Besides, it's not extremists building the mosques, so why should regular Muslims have to respect people who hate them for no reason? They didn't have anything to do with 9/11. Extremists carried out 9/11, not the whole Muslims community. If it was Al Qaeda HQ, I'd see why all of the US would be upset. But it's not. It's just a mosque. It's no different than a church, or a synagogue, or any other place of worship.

vintage anxiety.:

(I wasn't serious. What a lame joke, I know.)

Oh...I'm not too good at catching jokes....I'm a bit slow.