I understand the concept of people disagreeing as part of a debate. You really didn't need to point that out. Perhaps if you disagree with me then you'd like to explain why.
- ayanasioux:
- Well, that might be the case with you but you know, other people don't think so.
Your not being Jewish might have a lot to do with that.
- ayanasioux:
- Well, that might be the case with you but you know, other people don't think so.
Personally I think one caused more damage than the other.
I'm not being biased about the situation. It has much more to it than that... and how would you know whether I'm Jewish or not?
- kafka.:
- Your not being Jewish might have a lot to do with that.
If you think about it from the slim perspective, slavery and segregation lasted much longer than the holocaust did. I also believe the dehumanization process lasted much longer in slavery and segregation than it did in the holocaust causing much more damage to the conscious to those that suffered in slavery.
- Matt Smith:
- I understand the concept of people disagreeing as part of a debate. You really didn't need to point that out. Perhaps if you disagree with me then you'd like to explain why.
See that's the point I'm making in the forum. People tend to believe that the holocaust was worse than slavery and segregation.
- pierrot the clown.:
- I don't think you can or should compare the suffering different groups of people have gone through. They're not comparable, and one would have to experience both to have an objective (and I use the term loosely) perspective.
It doesn't matter which lasted longer, which you feel more related to, or which you deem crueler. You're appropriating the experience that both people in the Holocaust and those who were sold into slavery went through.
Who said I believed the Holocaust was worse? I wasn't there, and even if I had been, who is anyone to say one event in history was worse than another? Is it the one that lasted longer? The one that put people through the most painful physical torture? The one that was the most emotionally devastating? The one that had the most deaths? The one that disintegrated more families?
- ayanasioux:
- pierrot the clown.:
- I don't think you can or should compare the suffering different groups of people have gone through. They're not comparable, and one would have to experience both to have an objective (and I use the term loosely) perspective.
It doesn't matter which lasted longer, which you feel more related to, or which you deem crueler. You're appropriating the experience that both people in the Holocaust and those who were sold into slavery went through.
Relation has nothing to do with my statement. I believe the Native Americans had it very bad maybe even worse because their culture and population is almost non-existent because it's so scarce. Hardly do we ever discuss them in schools or anywhere unless we're talking about them being moved west in the US.
Whilst I take your point, I just don't see how we can turn this into some sort of competition of which oppressed group has had it worse. It's not just about comparing death tolls or timescales. The dehumanisation of the Jewish people is not a new thing, the Holocaust was only the most appalling in a long chain of events that included the Edict of Expulsion (13th century, England) and the Alhambra Decree (15th century, Spain) - so there's over eight hundred years' worth of persecution of Jewish people in Europe alone. So the Holocaust wasn't the only time Jewish people were dehumanised, it's been going on for more than a thousand years, the Holocaust was not a one-off instance of antisemitism.
- ayanasioux:
- If you think about it from the slim perspective, slavery and segregation lasted much longer than the holocaust did. I also believe the dehumanization process lasted much longer in slavery and segregation than it did in the holocaust causing much more damage to the conscious to those that suffered in slavery.
The way you boast about being black sortof gives you away. We all think somebody else's pain is not quite as painful as ours.
- ayanasioux:
- I'm not being biased about the situation. It has much more to it than that... and how would you know whether I'm Jewish or not?
I never said you in particular says the the holocaust is worse. I might not know about slavery or segregation but I do know about racism and if that feels this bad, there's no telling what slavery could have done or the holocaust of that matter.
- pierrot the clown.:
- Who said I believed the Holocaust was worse? I wasn't there, and even if I had been, who is anyone to say one event in history was worse than another? Is it the one that lasted longer? The one that put people through the most painful physical torture? The one that was the most emotionally devastating? The one that had the most deaths? The one that disintegrated more families?
The very answer to some of those questions is still subjective.
The point, as I said before, is that you're appropriating experiences you haven't gone through. At least, I'm pretty sure you were born after the 40s and I don't think you were ever a slave.
Yes but I don't think the dehumanization was as server.
- Matt Smith:
- Whilst I take your point, I just don't see how we can turn this into some sort of competition of which oppressed group has had it worse. It's not just about comparing death tolls or timescales. The dehumanisation of the Jewish people is not a new thing, the Holocaust was only the most appalling in a long chain of events that included the Edict of Expulsion (13th century, England) and the Alhambra Decree (15th century, Spain) - so there's over eight hundred years' worth of persecution of Jewish people in Europe alone. So the Holocaust wasn't the only time Jewish people were dehumanised, it's been going on for more than a thousand years, the Holocaust was not a one-off instance of antisemitism.
Have you never heard of a black Jew? That's crazy. Besides, anyone alive that was black during the holocaust (although there probably weren't a lot) experienced it too except I think they were killed right away. Don't forget that it wasn't just Jews that were killed.
- kafka.:
- The way you boast about being black sortof gives you away. We all think somebody else's pain is not quite as painful as ours.
Racism feels bad. Being a slave feels bad. Being sent to a concentration camp feels bad. What's your point? Can you explain to me why you believe that victims of the Holocaust were better off than people sold into slavery?
- ayanasioux:
- I never said you in particular says the the holocaust is worse. I might not know about slavery or segregation but I do know about racism and if that feels this bad, there's no telling what slavery could have done or the holocaust of that matter.
There are plenty African black Jews, but American ones tend to be significantly more rare. Plus, I was right, wasn't I? You're not Jewish, you're black so you think whatever your ancestors went through had to be much worse than what my ancestors or somebody else's went through. It's as simple as that and what you're doing is quite disgusting, to be honest, because you're trying to belittle one of the most traumatic events in human history in an attempt to get bragging rights.
- ayanasioux:
- Have you never heard of a black Jew? That's crazy. Besides, anyone alive that was black during the holocaust (although there probably weren't a lot) experienced it too except I think they were killed right away. Don't forget that it wasn't just Jews that were killed.
Most young Jewish people don't know much about "what the hell they are" either because between 1933 and 1945 the vast majority of their relatives were slaughtered at such a rapid pace, finding out who died, where, when and how is nearly impossible.
- ayanasioux:
- Yes but I don't think the dehumanization was as server.
If you think about it now people of the Jewish culture still practice their old beliefs and customs more so than that of African descent. For an instance, I don't know what the hell I am. All I know is that my great grandfather was Scottish but I look so black, no one could tell.
When did I say one or the other is better? All I remember saying is that I believe one did more damage to the human minds worse, in my opinion.
- pierrot the clown.:
- Racism feels bad. Being a slave feels bad. Being sent to a concentration camp feels bad. What's your point? Can you explain to me why you believe that victims of the Holocaust were better off than people sold into slavery?
I don't know how to quote different people at once.
- Quote
- Also, you shouldn't post twice in a row in the same thread. You can always edit your previous post and add whatever you want to say.
You're totally decontextualising here. Black people don't only exist in America, you seem to be making this implication repeatedly. There are black communites who have an important place in many different countries and cultures throughout the world. The fact that you're not connected to your cultural heritage doesn't mean nobody else is - I have a friend who is Kikuyu and she speaks the Kikuyu language even though she's lived in Britain her whole life so there clearly is a sense of culture, heritage and tradition there. It's like you're erasing the existence of all Africans who aren't Americans, and there are close to a billion Africans who live on the African continent (plus a large diaspora, yes, the result of slavery, but there's also emigration and colonialism to take into account too). So I don't see how you can only talk about the experiences of the African diaspora within America. Not everybody has the same experience with regards to culture, language, heritage etc.
- ayanasioux:
- Yes but I don't think the dehumanization was as server.
If you think about it now people of the Jewish culture still practice their old beliefs and customs more so than that of African descent. For an instance, I don't know what the hell I am. All I know is that my great grandfather was Scottish but I look so black, no one could tell.
Most Jews that I know of still practice Hanukkah but black people like myself know nothing about any African holidays if there were any. Hell, some black people don't even believe they're from African descent and often look at African's as jokes. They just say they're black as if it's a race because they are ashamed of claiming their African name.
- ayanasioux:
- When did I say one or the other is better? All I remember saying is that I believe one did more damage to the human minds worse, in my opinion.
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- ayanasioux:
- I also believe the dehumanization process lasted much longer in slavery and segregation than it did in the holocaust causing much more damage to the conscious to those that suffered in slavery.
[ q u o t e = " username " ] quote [ / q u o t e ]
- ayanasioux:
- I don't know how to quote different people at once.
