Bashing/Insulting in Debates

  • Kurtni

    Kurtni (10125)

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    This is starting to become a really big issue in our discussion forms, and we have to to something to stop it. One of the most important rules on the site, especially for debates, is that all discussions must remain respectful. So, I'm going to give a brief overview of the main problems, explain what we're doing, and you can ask any questions you have here.

    1. "WOW!" "You really believe that?" and "Seriously??? LOL Who thinks that?" and "I feel sorry for you if you really think THAT."

    Making comments that indicate you're amazed at how stupid you think someone's opinion is is no different than just bluntly calling them stupid. If anything, it's worse because you put yourself on some high horse above them. So, let's not do that anymore.

    2. " *Insert something really offensive, probably profane*, but that's just my opinion. No offense, man!"and "I find your belief sickening."

    Bashing anything cannot happen, even if it's your opinion. Someone will be offended, so find a better way to word how you feel. Just for the record, this includes bashing things like a religion, a politician, or an opinion.

    3. "You obviously will never comprehend what I'm saying..." and "I'll never get through your thick skull?"

    Even if you're not calling someone stupid, you can still insult their intelligence. Don't.

    What We're Going to do

    First, we're going to be moderating this section much more heavily, and we expect you to help by reporting people who break the rules. We don't want this to become a hateful, negative section of the site when it's intended to be enlightening.

    Offenders can expect to be banned for a week, or more if the offense is severe enough. This rule starts right now, and if you've made a post within the last few days you think may be questionable, you have a clean slate, so don't worry. We have some very good users in this section of the site, so I don't expect this to be a problem anymore.
    November 10th, 2010 at 03:24pm
  • Zazoo

    Zazoo (100)

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    Number two is debateable... the whole point of a debate is two different, obviously clashing opinions. If you want to stress your opinion on a politician/opinion, its pretty much allowed. Anyone can find anything offensive. Like, to be as basic as possible, the two opposing opinions are offensive to the other debater. Its next to impossible to have a debate "not offensive" because the biggest debates are over morals and when people try to prove the other moral as "inhumane/wrong/bad/etc." it offends people. The biggest example is the Abortion debate. Ouch.
    November 21st, 2010 at 10:25pm
  • Jewel Nicole

    Jewel Nicole (100)

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    ^You don't have to bash someone's opinion/view because you disagree with it. There's a way to debate and bashing isn't one.
    November 21st, 2010 at 10:27pm
  • Zazoo

    Zazoo (100)

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    ^How can expressing a dislike (your opinion) of something be different than bashing? I think if they were saying things like," hes is doing horrible things" well... thats not good. but if you explain WHY you think he is doing horrible things, then its not bashing?

    Im not sure number 2 was clarified well. Because i am confused.
    November 21st, 2010 at 10:41pm
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    zazoo:
    ^How can expressing a dislike of something be different than bashing?
    Easily.

    "I don't like [insert person's name here], I think he does horrible things." < Not bashing.
    "I don't like [insert person's name here], he's a stupid twat and should burn in hell." < Bashing.
    November 21st, 2010 at 11:04pm
  • Zazoo

    Zazoo (100)

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    thanks for the clarification :]
    November 22nd, 2010 at 11:34pm
  • ZonkyBoodle

    ZonkyBoodle (100)

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    Well, in a debate even the foulest mouthed person can be silenced with a good argument. i've always found that logic can silence the most disruptive of people.

    I also beleive that some people should let opinions come. I've been following Conan O'brien on twitter and the dude's funny, but there will always be *haters* However, you also need tough critisim to maintain a view in what people dont like and like.

    For example: Twilight. S. Meyer did get alot of negative feedback yet she knew she had something good, for the *general public*

    My advice, dont be overly sensitive, let the good as well as the bad comments come your way.

    Well that just me, and i'm not the Administrator.
    November 27th, 2010 at 06:25am
  • Kurtni

    Kurtni (10125)

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    Hate speech and "tough criticism" are hardly the same thing though.
    November 27th, 2010 at 07:54pm
  • Ayana Sioux

    Ayana Sioux (1175)

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    Sometimes I feel the rules are a little too strict. And I don't like the fact that people get banned without any warning and sometimes its hard to even tell what you're being banned for or where you've broken a rule. "Banned for insulting comments" isn't good enough for me. Where did I use an insulting comment? When did I offend anyone? How am I supposed to know I've offended someone? People offend me on the debate forums a lot but I'm not going to be all thinned skinned about it. Some people don't know that some of the things they're say can be offending. I'd just like to be warned before I'm banned and shown where I've broken a rule.

    EDIT.
    And the part about "you'll probably never understand" and stuff like that, I feel it's just a way to end some conversations. I've run into many situations during a debate when the person I'm debating with really doesn't understand or even come close to understanding. It seems sometimes it's just something they know nothing about and sometimes even apathetic to trying to see it from my perspective even after numerous comments. So I just say "Just forget it. You'll probably never understand." Because I just get tired of explaining after about 150 or more comments and explanation.
    November 28th, 2010 at 09:59pm
  • kafka.

    kafka. (150)

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    ayanasioux:
    Sometimes I feel the rules are a little too strict. And I don't like the fact that people get banned without any warning and sometimes its hard to even tell what you're being banned for or where you've broken a rule. "Banned for insulting comments" isn't good enough for me. Where did I use an insulting comment? When did I offend anyone? How am I supposed to know I've offended someone?
    If you get banned, you can pm an admin about it and if you're nice with them, they'll be nice with you too and explain you exactly which of your posts got you into trouble.
    November 28th, 2010 at 10:04pm
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    ayanasioux:
    And the part about "you'll probably never understand" and stuff like that, I feel it's just a way to end some conversations. I've run into many situations during a debate when the person I'm debating with really doesn't understand or even come close to understanding. It seems sometimes it's just something they know nothing about and sometimes even apathetic to trying to see it from my perspective even after numerous comments. So I just say "Just forget it. You'll probably never understand." Because I just get tired of explaining after about 150 or more comments and explanation.
    It's alright to say something like "I don't think you're understanding what I mean". But implying they'll never understand whatever it is is insulting their intelligence.
    November 28th, 2010 at 10:35pm
  • Ayana Sioux

    Ayana Sioux (1175)

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    But I thought that only one admin banns you? If that's the case, how would you know which admin banned you?

    I understand that but it's almost as if certain people will never come around to an understanding regardless of what's being said then I just get tired of aruging but I understand.
    November 29th, 2010 at 02:02am
  • Kurtni

    Kurtni (10125)

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    ayanasioux:
    But I thought that only one admin banns you? If that's the case, how would you know which admin banned you?

    I understand that but it's almost as if certain people will never come around to an understanding regardless of what's being said then I just get tired of aruging but I understand.
    All the admins can ban you from the board, and you can PM anyone of them and they'll help you.
    ayanasioux:
    EDIT.
    And the part about "you'll probably never understand" and stuff like that, I feel it's just a way to end some conversations. I've run into many situations during a debate when the person I'm debating with really doesn't understand or even come close to understanding. It seems sometimes it's just something they know nothing about and sometimes even apathetic to trying to see it from my perspective even after numerous comments. So I just say "Just forget it. You'll probably never understand." Because I just get tired of explaining after about 150 or more comments and explanation.
    If you get tired of explaining, just stop posting. It's demeaning to imply that someone isn't capable of understanding what you're saying, and in most cases they probably just disagree with you, it's not that they don't understand.
    November 29th, 2010 at 04:50am
  • Jewel Nicole

    Jewel Nicole (100)

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    Kurtni Klaus:
    If you get tired of explaining, just stop posting. It's demeaning to imply that someone isn't capable of understanding what you're saying, and in most cases they probably just disagree with you, it's not that they don't understand.
    Exactly, I've argued with people 'x' amount of times over the same thing and it's not because I don't comprehend what they're saying, but simply that I disagree with it. There's a really big difference. When someone says "you'll never understand" or something along those lines I feel like my intelligence is being insulted.
    November 29th, 2010 at 10:02pm
  • Zazoo

    Zazoo (100)

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    I completely agree with what ayanasioux is saying.

    In a ban message, it should say the exact phrase/sentence that got you banned.

    Club Penguin does it! lol xD At least you can LEARN from your mistakes instead of being like, oh. :\ What should I not say anymore?
    December 1st, 2010 at 12:51pm
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    zazoo:
    In a ban message, it should say the exact phrase/sentence that got you banned.
    At least you can LEARN from your mistakes instead of being like, oh. :\ What should I not say anymore?
    ^
    kafka.:
    If you get banned, you can pm an admin about it and if you're nice with them, they'll be nice with you too and explain you exactly which of your posts got you into trouble.
    Kurtni Klaus:
    All the admins can ban you from the board, and you can PM anyone of them and they'll help you.
    There's no reason why it can't be left up to the banned user to be pro-active about things if they honestly don't know why they've been banned.
    December 1st, 2010 at 01:50pm
  • Kurtni

    Kurtni (10125)

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    zazoo:
    I completely agree with what ayanasioux is saying.

    In a ban message, it should say the exact phrase/sentence that got you banned.

    Club Penguin does it! lol xD At least you can LEARN from your mistakes instead of being like, oh. :\ What should I not say anymore?
    I think users learn more when they have to be actively involved and message a staff member about what they did, and why it was wrong.

    Not to mention, when most people contact me, they know exactly what they said and apologize or try to justify what they said. It's rarely a mystery, but if you truly don't know, we can help you.
    December 1st, 2010 at 11:46pm
  • Zazoo

    Zazoo (100)

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    Kurtni Klaus:
    I think users learn more when they have to be actively involved and message a staff member about what they did, and why it was wrong.

    Not to mention, when most people contact me, they know exactly what they said and apologize or try to justify what they said. It's rarely a mystery, but if you truly don't know, we can help you.
    Do all moderators know why you got banned? Because if they didn't, id have to go through finding the right one to message. And Plus, some people are too ashamed that they got banned to ask why. Cause they feel like they know SOMETHING they said wrong, but they dont know exactly what.
    December 3rd, 2010 at 12:36pm
  • Kurtni

    Kurtni (10125)

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    zazoo:
    Do all moderators know why you got banned? Because if they didn't, id have to go through finding the right one to message. And Plus, some people are too ashamed that they got banned to ask why. Cause they feel like they know SOMETHING they said wrong, but they dont know exactly what.
    I just explained that you don't have to know who banned you. Talk to any moderator, and we'll find out- that's our job.

    I can't say I sympathize with a banned user who feels ashamed... you shouldn't feel good about breaking the rules, especially if what you did hurts another user. People who get banned aren't victims and we won't treat them like that.
    December 3rd, 2010 at 03:20pm
  • Ayana Sioux

    Ayana Sioux (1175)

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    Kurtni Klaus:
    If you get tired of explaining, just stop posting. It's demeaning to imply that someone isn't capable of understanding what you're saying, and in most cases they probably just disagree with you, it's not that they don't understand.
    Well... for what I'm talking about, I know it's because they don't understand but I won't say that anymore.
    December 5th, 2010 at 04:10am