Breast-Feeding in Public

Lil'Biskette:

I don't mind it when people breast feed in public but for goodness sake as long as your are WELL COVERED I have no problem with it. It's just those who abuse the privelledge and randomly lift off their shirts totally shameless.

Should a woman feel shameful about feeding a baby?

@ Lil'Biskette
Not all babies will feed with a cover on, it's not a case of being arrogant about it, you just can't tell a baby that some stranger is annoyed so you have to put a sheet over your head. It just doesn't work like that.

Lil'Biskette:

I don't mind it when people breast feed in public but for goodness sake as long as your are WELL COVERED I have no problem with it. It's just those who abuse the privelledge and randomly lift off their shirts totally shameless.

I'm going to quote The Rumor here:

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Not everyone's babies will feed with a cover. My son point blank refused (screaming style) and my friend's daughter always pulled it off. What would you rather she have done?

It's not up to you as a bystander. It's up to the mother. As a bystander, all you have to do is kindly look away and let the mother do the feeding. She doesn't have to cover anything; she's feeding a baby who is hungry. Period. She's not doing it to be "shameless" or to get attention; it's a natural act, not anything of a sexual nature.

@ Lil'Biskette
... should they be ashamed?

Well I guess I understand now... I never thought of it that way. It's when I'm with my relatives, friends who are all older than me they always scorn women who do that so I just thought it was like that... I guess it's not! Thanks for opening my eyes. I'm only 15 so I have a lot to learn.

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It's not up to you as a bystander. It's up to the mother. As a bystander, all you have to do is kindly look away and let the mother do the feeding. She doesn't have to cover anything;

It's true, she doesn't have to cover, but neither should you, a bystander, have to look away.

Xsoteria:

It's true, she doesn't have to cover, but neither should you, a bystander, have to look away.

Why not? If someone's not looking at something that offends them, then they're not being affected by it, are they?

My Uncle's girlfriend breastfeeds in public but she has this cover and she puts my cousin underneath it so she doesn't exactly get them out as such she covers herself up while my cousin feeds. But in my opinion if a baby needs to feed a baby needs to feed.

Xsoteria:

It's true, she doesn't have to cover, but neither should you, a bystander, have to look away.

How so? I don't really see why a random stranger has a right to stare at a woman breast feeding.

The Rumor:

How so? I don't really see why a random stranger has a right to stare at a woman breast feeding.

Exactly. I mean, as ill-advised as it would be, if someone really wants to stare at a woman breast-feeding, on their head be it... but if someone's offended/sickened/made uncomfortable by seeing a woman breast-feeding, then it's up to them to divert their attention elsewhere, and if they don't do that, then they don't really have any grounds on which to complain.

@ Xsoteria
I think bystanders should have common courtesy and basic respect for women, but y'know, some people have no common courtesy and respect...

Xsoteria:

It's true, she doesn't have to cover, but neither should you, a bystander, have to look away.

Staring, in general, is pretty rude. So really it's no different when it comes to breast feeding.

I wouldn't blatantly ogle anyone on the street for any reason, and I wouldn't do it to a women breastfeeding either - regardless of whether I'm comfortable or uncomfortable with someone breastfeeding.

But I believe fen'harel and The Rumor were responding to someone saying that women should use a cover when breastfeeding because other people might be uncomfortable with it. To which the answer was: If you're uncomfortable with it, don't look.

Neither were saying that people shouldn't look at women breastfeeding at all. They were saying, if it bothers you, don't look.

I personally think a woman should use a cover if she's uncomfortable with being "exposed" in public, not because of the opinions of others.

@Audrey T

She may have meant something along those lines, but in the end she did say bystanders have to look away, with no regard to either staring or covers. And I objected, just in case.

@The Rumor

You don't see how a stranger has a right to go outside and look at people?

@dru

I don't think it's really "basic respect" for women to not look their way while they breastfeed in a public place. At the very best, it's "advanced respect" for women I'd say, and I honestly don't expect everyoe to have it.

@ Xsoteria
I think there's a vast difference between looking at people and watching or staring at a breast feeding woman. It's impolite to stare at/watch anyone, I don't see why a breast feeding mother is exempt from those rules of social etiquette.

So watching in moderate amount is appropriate? Just not like, stare. Or if you do stare, then that's a bit rude.

Which is fine, as long as people don't "have to" look away. You see, if you go outside, and perform an activity of your own volition and expect people to coordinate themselves around so as to not offend you, disturb you or whatever - then you are being the rude one.

@ Xsoteria
I think that if a creepy guy is staring at me breastfeed I have every right to tell him to fuck off. I'm pretty sure staring at an exposed women isn't common decency or respect. At least, me and my siblings were taught not to stare at anyone (especially people who are different/doing different things) so ... yeah. Taught from a young age, I would say it's common decency and respect.

Xsoteria:

So watching in moderate amount is appropriate? Just not like, stare. Or if you do stare, then that's a bit rude.

Which is fine, as long as people don't "have to" look away. You see, if you go outside, and perform an activity of your own volition and expect people to coordinate themselves around so as to not offend you, disturb you or whatever - then you are being the rude one.

How does not staring at a woman's breasts hinder whatever activity you had planned to do? Would you stare at the breasts of a non breast-feeding woman? Maybe I'm just talented, but I can eat at a restaurant, shop at the mall, and sit in a park without staring at breasts, exposed or clothed. Regardless of what a woman is doing, it's not decent to ogle her chest. If you feel you have some chauvinistic entitlement to gawk at women anytime you happen to see one in a public place, so be it, but I think you're in the wrong, completely.

@dru

I don't think you've read my post at all, so I'm not sure if I should just repost it or rephrase it.

I'm not talking about staring or shockingly oogling at someone breastfeeding, I'm telling you that making me avert my eyes from you or your general direction because you chose to breastfeed your baby in public is not something I think is appropriate.

Personally, I wouldn't stare or even give it much attention in the first place, I just find it ridiculous that you or any breastfeeding woman would be shocked or offended if someone looked at your breasts when you whiped them out somewhere public.

If you have such a problem with being looked at, you should either cover up or do it somewhere private where you are comfortable.

@Kurtni

I think you rise a good point. Even dressed up, nonbreastfeeding women often make this annoying (IMO) assumption that by say, wearing an uber low cut top or no bra with a see through or extra thinned out shirt over, with nipples tearing at the and through the fabric, they are still somehow not going to get looked at.

If you dress provocatively, you can't possibly be offended at the attention or looks you recieve.

I find it extremely distasteful for someone to expose themselves in public, on a completely voluntary basis, and then pretend they're all shocked and offended that they are recieving attention of random passerbyers.

Xsoteria:

@dru

I don't think you've read my post at all, so I'm not sure if I should just repost it or rephrase it.

I'm not talking about staring or shockingly oogling at someone breastfeeding, I'm telling you that making me avert my eyes from you or your general direction because you chose to breastfeed your baby in public is not something I think is appropriate.

Personally, I wouldn't stare or even give it much attention in the first place, I just find it ridiculous that you or any breastfeeding woman would be shocked or offended if someone looked at your breasts when you whiped them out somewhere public.

If you have such a problem with being looked at, you should either cover up or do it somewhere private where you are comfortable.

@Kurtni

I think you rise a good point. Even dressed up, nonbreastfeeding women often make this annoying (IMO) assumption that by say, wearing an uber low cut top or no bra with a see through or extra thinned out shirt over, with nipples tearing at the and through the fabric, they are still somehow not going to get looked at.

If you dress provocatively, you can't possibly be offended at the attention or looks you recieve.

I find it extremely distasteful for someone to expose themselves in public, on a completely voluntary basis, and then pretend they're all shocked and offended that they are recieving attention of random passerbyers.

I think that even if we could concede that someone dressing "provocatively" or acting in a way others deemed "lewd" somehow deserve/should expect/have no right to complain when someone stares at them, a woman breastfeeding her child still wouldn't fall under this umbrella of exemption because it's neither lewd nor provocative nor sexual. It's a motherly, caring, nurturing act and the only reason someone would view it otherwise is because of their own perversions - which is that person's issue, not something the mother and child should be concerned with and not something they should put up with either.

The idea you're putting forward here is terrifying and dangerous because it excuses harmful behavior and takes away responsibility from the person who is actually doing damage.

If a girl is wearing ripped clothing or see through clothing or whatever and some guy thinks like you - like she shouldn't be able to complain or be offended or take action against someone who harasses her because of that - it's an easy jump to defending to rapists and molesters and other sexual abusers. To say that it's okay because if a women dresses a certain way or 'exposes' herself, she should have expected it.

And, to see this in something like a conversation about breastfeeding? I mean, we're equating breastfeeding to women who dress provocatively and then saying it's fine for a women and child to be leered at in a sexual way because 'exposure is exposure.'

Xsoteria:

I just find it ridiculous that you or any breastfeeding woman would be shocked or offended if someone looked at your breasts when you whiped them out somewhere public.

The Rumor, Dru and Kurtni all suggested that they consider staring rude, regardless of the person/behaviour.

Xsoteria:

and then pretend they're all shocked and offended that they are recieving attention of random passerbyers.

Newsflash, which I assume will come as news if you are making sexist statements like this, a woman who dresses up may not be doing it for the "attention of random passerbyers." A woman might want attention from specific people, or maybe she is dressing the way she wants to, because she feels good dressing like that. Is she asking to be stared at? No more than she would be asking for whistles, lewd comments or sexual assault. Unless a woman asks someone for attention, how dare you suggest she is feigning her offence (or horror, or fear, or any emotion that the received attention elicits) or that she was asking for the response from "random passerbyers." If I dressed up for my partner, that's who I want the attention from. And "random passerbyers" have no greater rights over my person than if I was covered head to toe.

Having said that, I'll reiterate my first point, the point everyone else on this page made: people, legally, have the 'right' to stare at anyone. But I can think of no circumstances where it socially appropriate or acceptable to do so.* If you're arguing the former, no-one is disagreeing. If you're arguing the latter, even if we suggested that lewd/sexual acts fell under 'fair game' for staring, like Audrey said - breastfeeding is neither lewd nor sexual.

(*Excepting violence, but I'd suggest more than staring is morally desirable, i.e. yelling out, intervening, or getting help.)