"Everyone is Created in God's Image"

  • Ayana Sioux

    Ayana Sioux (1175)

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    phat amy.:
    @ a starship ranger
    I don't get that either, if we're all created in God's physical image, that wouldn't make sense, since we all appear different.
    I think that if you put a little science in there, it would make more sense.
    October 12th, 2012 at 04:49pm
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    It's a semantic issue, the way I see it. If a person who argues that we're all created in God's physical image is careful to add a definition for "physical image", then it's an easier view to analyse.
    October 12th, 2012 at 04:59pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    You can't be like God. If we were like God and somehow one of us or all of us perfected ourselves logically we would become God would we not? And then we would fight with the Other gods on how to run the earth. Chaos.

    Instead God put the prophets like Jesus and Abraham and Muhammad Peace and Blessings be Upon Them for us to follow and copy. And the perfect example for humans to emulate are the Prophets. They are the best of humans.

    Allah means God.

    "He is Allah, the One! Allah, the eternally Besought of all! He begetteth not nor was begotten. And there is none comparable unto Him."

    And in a scientific sense the Quran has falsification tests, and if you cannot prove them, then the Quran's truth is shown.

    I think that the focus on this issue from the bible is kind of secondary to more important debates like how one's character should be and what type of morals one should have. You know? Because then after faith is established then beliefs and such are more set and it's harder for someone to be led astray and easier for someone to do good actions.
    October 13th, 2012 at 06:06am
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    And I don't intend to mock, so I'll leave this video for a different perspective laugh hopefully http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5KE7QmFHho :)
    October 13th, 2012 at 07:18am
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    discoveringclouds:
    Because then after faith is established then beliefs and such are more set and it's harder for someone to be led astray and easier for someone to do good actions.
    I disagree. I think people of faith are just as likely as anyone else to be 'led astray', and I disagree with the notion that being of faith has any bearing on one's ability to do good things.
    October 13th, 2012 at 12:13pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.
    Yeah you are right people who aren't of faith do awesome things all the time for others and stuff. I'm just talking about actions and one feelings like they are sinning. And of course no one can avoid that they might make a mistake. Some religious people are ungentle and make it hard to communicate and learn from them. Well about believing in God,one learns the effects of their actions more and what is good from religion so they can at least know why they should do certain things. Maybe the more their belief is strong the more good they do. At the end of the day I might say something wrong so it's important for us to learn and I can't judge only God can.
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:00pm
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    discoveringclouds:
    Well about believing in God,one learns the effects of their actions more and what is good from religion so they can at least know why they should do certain things. Maybe the more their belief is strong the more good they do.
    What is it in particular about being religious that makes one learn the effects of their actions more? I would argue that people generally learn from their actions in the same way(s). And again, I don't see how a religious person has a greater sense of knowing why they should do a certain thing than a non-religious person. And as for learning what is good; yes, there are plenty of good teachings in the main religions, but there is also a large dose of teachings that are obviously bad. So I don't see how religion objectively shapes people into better people than the non-religious.
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:12pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.
    When you believe in a religion you could learn what are good actions and that your good actions and character affect others positively and you also learn that you get good deeds that will help you in the Hereafter. So you are thinking longer term, past this life. So you should be inclined to do more good deeds, but that's all based on belief, something I can't actually measure.

    What dose of teaching is bad? What do you mean?
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:25pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.
    You have some really strong arguments, and to be honest I think belief and knowledge have a huge impact on one's interpretation. For example believing in a religion makes it easier to follow because you know its true, the stronger you believe the more it eases your heart to go forth. That's how I feel.

    I can't answer all your questions, but learning about a One-God religion like Islam might make you get some answers, and have more questions. There are lots of scholars now a days that have lectures on the internet and there is complete easy access to english translations to the Quran. http://www.quranexplorer.com/Quran/Default.aspx

    I'll suggest searching up Nouman Ali Khan, he's hilarious.

    It can't hurt to read and listen, and it's also a good way to see another side of things.

    Honestly, just seeing your questions and how you don't believe religious people are better than non-religious people is making me wonder. I don't have enough knowledge myself to answer your complex questions, I can at least point you to some sources that you can read yourself. It's not like you have to go through a priest or imaam to learn about a religion. You can hear lectures and such and maybe you can answer some questions, or at least start thinking more deeply about what is right and wrong about subjects?
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:35pm
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    discoveringclouds:
    @ Alex; periphery.
    When you believe in a religion you could learn what are good actions and that your good actions and character affect others positively and you also learn that you get good deeds that will help you in the Hereafter. So you are thinking longer term, past this life. So you should be inclined to do more good deeds, but that's all based on belief, something I can't actually measure.
    I'm not sure if you meant to imply this, but it sounds like you're saying people are more likely to do good deeds if they think that'll mean them getting eternal life. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Quote
    What dose of teaching is bad? What do you mean?
    There are countless examples of teachings of bad morals in the Torah, the Qur'an and hadiths and the Bible. Just to name a few; slavery, capital and corporal punishment, the maltreatment of women. Then, aside from the teachings that directly instruct wrongdoings, there are those that simply inspire wrongdoings; particularly when it comes to the judgment of women, homosexuals and people of other races.
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:37pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.
    Wow...I just switched to check my facebook and I saw a friend repost this, so I'll share it because it's flowing with what we are talking about!

    "Mufti Ismail Menk:
    Not everybody is on the same level of piety & none of us can claim to be holier than the other.

    Whilst some are working very hard to improve their clothing & appearance others are working equally hard to improve their faith & character.

    Some focus on rectifying visible weaknesses yet others have overtaken them through rectifying hidden weaknesses.

    The winners are those who can work hard to improve both simultaneously.

    Some improve very quickly initially & lose focus later on whilst others improve slowly & quietly, overtaking those who continue to think they are astray.

    Never let Satan make us feel that others are astray unless they move at our pace & start by rectifying what we found easy to rectify in our lives.

    Be careful what you think of others for their link with the Almighty could be much stronger than ours.

    Let's pray for each other rather than against each other, and focus on our weaknesses, both hidden & apparent."
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:39pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.
    No no, not eternal life, I mean life after death. People will likely do more good if they believe that they will benefit more from it. If they do good deeds, they might do more so they can gain in their accounts so they can go to Heaven after this life. That's what I meant, I hope it makes sense?

    So when they have an eternal life, it's a good one.

    As for capital punishments and such, America has death row does it not? And if you take some sociology courses in university you learn some interesting things. Anyways one thing I can do is explain this from another perspective that I heard once. And I'm not going to talk about capital punishment, that's way beyond anything I have learned.

    So if someone did steal and have their hand cut for that as punishment, how many people do you think would steal after that? Just look at Dubai. There are no security guards guarding the jewellery stores, the owners just leave to pray and their merchandise is completely open. And stealing is wrong is it not, so having fear of something wrong is actually good.

    Of course I'm not saying go chop of someone's hand if they steal. I'm saying that within the law I have heard that is part of the reasoning. And I have also heard that that punishment is not for a first time offence. So although it sounds horrible, you have to consider that things are a little deeper. They do have explanations as well.

    Everything in the Quran either benefits you directly in this life or the Hereafter and/or society. That's what I've heard.
    October 13th, 2012 at 11:55pm
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.

    I haven't ever heard anything about maltreatment of women? I believe you mean the time before the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him), the time of jahiliyya. The time of jahiliyya was the time of ignorance, before Islam. Islam specifically gave women lots of rights, you can read them in the Quran and the hadith if you like.

    In jahiliyya times women were treated like slaves, feminicide, the killing of baby girls was extremely and horrifically common.

    And in the Quran it states that those people will be answerable to killing their baby girls.

    Women in Islam were given rights 1400 years ago.

    I'll give you some examples.

    First of all women do not have to contribute anything to their family income, their husband must provide everything for them. If they wish they may contribute, but what they earn is entirely theirs.

    Women have a right to do business, the Prophet's wife had a successful business.

    And so many other things.

    Of course men have rights too. Everyone has rights, even children, even orphans, even everyone.

    I almost went to a course about how a will is supposed to be divided up. The subject included step children, adopted children, girls, boys, family, and charity, but first it said to pay off all debts.

    This is not meant to be complicated, these are just further dealings into faith. Once you begin reading there are so many things regarding the rights of individuals.
    October 14th, 2012 at 12:04am
  • wxyz

    wxyz (240)

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    discoveringclouds:
    @ Alex; periphery.
    No no, not eternal life, I mean life after death. People will likely do more good if they believe that they will benefit more from it. If they do good deeds, they might do more so they can gain in their accounts so they can go to Heaven after this life. That's what I meant, I hope it makes sense?
    That does make sense, yes, although I must again disagree with the sentiment. I think doing good deeds is better encouraged for altruistic reasons rather than reasons of self-gain.
    discoveringclouds:
    As for capital punishments and such, America has death row does it not?
    Yes, and I'm against it. Killing another person is never okay (unless in cases of euthanasia, i.e. when the person in question has consented to his/her life being ended).
    discoveringclouds:
    So if someone did steal and have their hand cut for that as punishment, how many people do you think would steal after that? Just look at Dubai. There are no security guards guarding the jewellery stores, the owners just leave to pray and their merchandise is completely open. And stealing is wrong is it not, so having fear of something wrong is actually good.

    Of course I'm not saying go chop of someone's hand if they steal. I'm saying that within the law I have heard that is part of the reasoning. And I have also heard that that punishment is not for a first time offence. So although it sounds horrible, you have to consider that things are a little deeper. They do have explanations as well.
    I also consider that wrong, whether being used as a deterrent/punishment or not. Then there's stoning and beating.
    discoveringclouds:
    I haven't ever heard anything about maltreatment of women? I believe you mean the time before the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammed (Peace and Blessings Be Upon Him), the time of jahiliyya. The time of jahiliyya was the time of ignorance, before Islam. Islam specifically gave women lots of rights, you can read them in the Quran and the hadith if you like.

    In jahiliyya times women were treated like slaves, feminicide, the killing of baby girls was extremely and horrifically common.

    And in the Quran it states that those people will be answerable to killing their baby girls.

    Women in Islam were given rights 1400 years ago.

    I'll give you some examples.

    First of all women do not have to contribute anything to their family income, their husband must provide everything for them. If they wish they may contribute, but what they earn is entirely theirs.

    Women have a right to do business, the Prophet's wife had a successful business.

    And so many other things.

    Of course men have rights too. Everyone has rights, even children, even orphans, even everyone.

    I almost went to a course about how a will is supposed to be divided up. The subject included step children, adopted children, girls, boys, family, and charity, but first it said to pay off all debts.

    This is not meant to be complicated, these are just further dealings into faith. Once you begin reading there are so many things regarding the rights of individuals.
    What about the passages that state that a woman is inferior to her husband? And that a woman is equal to half a man? And the instruction for women to cover themselves up? There are plenty of examples mentioned in the Islam thread, which is where this discussion should probably continue, as we seem to be going off-topic.
    October 14th, 2012 at 12:18am
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa6cjJiXzvI

    Scholars on the internet might answer your questions too. I think so many of the questions you asked are answered by this scholar and others. Just search the internet. God-willing you will find you answers!! :)
    October 14th, 2012 at 12:32am
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ Alex; periphery.
    Being unselfish is very important. But there are also rewards. Humans like rewards, it's just in our nature, we are more likely to do things for it, so God promises us rewards.

    But if you don't believe you don't know you are getting rewards on top of being unselfish, you are just being unselfish because it feels nice. :)

    Oh gosh, I can't believe you just brought up Euthanasia! I wrote a paper about it last week! I don't know the particulars about religion on that, so I won't say anything. :)

    You are so focused on punishments, why don't you want to think about the rewards? Gardens in heaven, happiness, peace, amazing things, meeting your past relatives in heaven. And so many more things.

    Women are not equal to half a man, pfft. I get whatever I want, I go to university, I have more education than my parents, I don't feel half to anyone. What I have heard around is that women are emotional and caring by nature and they might not give a full truth if for example they were used as a witness for a murder case or something. And about the property, women move away to their husbands usually, so they are already taken care of, and they do receive their share as well. There are social and personal reasons behind everything in the Quran. Woman are not inferior to their husbands in any way.

    Eve was created from the rib of Adam, not his feet to be stepped on, and not his head to be above him, but his rib so that they could be beside each other and together on this earth. That's what I heard. And I love it :)

    I think your questions are so complex, that the best thing for you to do is read about things and question real scholars. I am just a student and in my spare time I learn more about my religion, so I don't know everything. I can't answer your awesome questions as well as I so wish I could. But I can promise you that there are answers :)

    There's an Islam thread?! Dude, that's awesome. Can you give me a link, we can move our discussion there.
    October 14th, 2012 at 12:32am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ discoveringclouds
    "And in a scientific sense the Quran has falsification tests, and if you cannot prove them, then the Quran's truth is shown."

    What does this mean? You don't prove something true by saying 'this part isn't false'. You have to prove it's true, not untrue.
    October 15th, 2012 at 02:04am
  • discoveringclouds

    discoveringclouds (200)

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    @ dru will wait. Sorry about that didn't mean to have any double negatives or confusion. I hope you can forgive me.

    What I meant to say is that I have heard that in the Quran there are falsification tests for non believers to attempt so they can try and prove it wrong. But obviously if you can't prove it wrong its obviously right.

    And most of the facts in the Quran are now proved correct. Like recently the earth was understood to be not just spherical but Geo spherical like an ostrich egg. Of course that's one thing alone, and scholars know so much more. I'm just a random person on the internet. I don't want to confuse anyone with my lack of life experience and time to gain knowledge!
    October 15th, 2012 at 02:30am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ discoveringclouds
    Not being able to prove something wrong does not make it right. There could be other options besides the two. All it proves is that what you tested isn't true. It isn't proof that one of the alternatives is. Scientifically.

    The Quran "knowing" the earth was round doesn't mean much. The Bible also describes the earth as round. Just because some facts in a book are true doesn't mean they all are.
    October 15th, 2012 at 02:38am
  • atlas -

    atlas - (855)

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    @ discoveringclouds
    Just because we can't proove it wrong now doesn't automatically make it right. Maybe in a couple to a hundred years or so we can gain the ability to disprove some 'facts' within the holy books if most religions.
    October 15th, 2012 at 04:58am