Slut-Shaming

  • charming.

    charming. (135)

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    dru's troubled soul:
    I was addressing the issue of "reclaiming" the word, not the empowerment of it.

    I don't think it's fair for someone who isn't in my group of friends (no offense) to decide what is appropriate or inappropriate for me to say to my friends. The way a person takes something, the audience it is delivered to, and the intent of the original statement all have a lot to do with whether or not something is appropriate.

    I'm not saying I should walk up to a stranger and speak that way, but I think it's pretty preachy for someone to tell me that talking to my friends in a certain way is inappropriate. I'm not talking to them, talking to a public forum, and it doesn't effect them.
    Again, I'm not talking about you and your friends. But since you keep bringing it up, I don't really care if it comes across as preachy. If you don't fit the 'category' of 'slut' - i.e. sleeping with "too many" people [whatever that is] - deciding you're going to use the word anyway isn't a revolutionary reclaiming of it, and doesn't make it okay to use. If you decided to 'reclaim' a racial, religious, or gay slur to use in day-to-day conversation, I think that's inappropriate. And you thinking it is okay doesn't just make it okay. Congrats on how 'progressive' you and your friends feel, but I don't think the world needs to be told "it's okay to call people sluts!" when 'slut' is still used to degrade, defame and disparage women.
    May 14th, 2013 at 02:56am
  • fat lamb

    fat lamb (105)

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    So basically what it comes down to is just keep to yourself and don't mind anyone else's business but your own? If you have an opinion don't share it because it has the power to offend and hurt?
    May 14th, 2013 at 04:58am
  • Airi.

    Airi. (2240)

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    @ pravda.
    I can sort of see why people want to reclaim it, maybe to try and take some ammo away from the people who like using it to belittle females? But I agree. I don't really like the reclaiming of the word either. The word is overall just a really nasty one that I don't think should be used at all.
    @ fat lamb
    No one on this thread has really said that at all. What people are more so saying is that just because someone lives in a way you morally disagree with does not give you* permission to degrade them. There is never a reason to use a degrading word such a slut and there is never any justification for it. People can disagree with one another in a respectful way without the need for degradation of another person. When you call someone a slut, be it to their face or behind their back, you are degrading them by using a derogatory word. How is that an okay thing to do regardless of what word it is?

    All opinions have the opportunity to offend someone, what matters is how you say it. If you call a woman a slut for having casual sex, you are trying to hurt them because you are using a word meant to offend. That is an offensive way to say an opinion. However, if you were to say something like you morally disagreed with casual sex, that would be a respectful way to say something. Sure, it might offend someone, but what matters is you said it in a respectful way and didn't use derogatory terms. Do you kind of see what I'm saying?

    *You is used in a general sense and not necessarily directed at you in particular.
    May 14th, 2013 at 05:19am
  • fat lamb

    fat lamb (105)

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    Airi.:
    All opinions have the opportunity to offend someone, what matters is how you say it. If you call a woman a slut for having casual sex, you are trying to hurt them because you are using a word meant to offend. That is an offensive way to say an opinion. However, if you were to say something like you morally disagreed with casual sex, that would be a respectful way to say something. Sure, it might offend someone, but what matters is you said it in a respectful way and didn't use derogatory terms. Do you kind of see what I'm saying?
    I really like the way you put that. I think that's why I started this whole thread, because I wasn't sure if I was "slut-shaming" by not agreeing with how certain women dressed or used their body. I was very confused on if I had to suddenly approve of all kinds of behavior a woman engaged herself in, which really bothered me because again, my morals (which are no higher above anyone else's), are a bit different.
    May 14th, 2013 at 05:25am
  • Airi.

    Airi. (2240)

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    @ fat lamb
    This article might be able to help you. I don't know much about the blog that posted it (other than it's obviously a feminism blog), but the article does look well-researched, informative, and unbiased. The article discuses what slut-shaming is, how the word is sexist, and how calling a woman a slut can psychologically and socially damage her long-term. The article could probably explain better than I ever could but let me give it a try. ^^

    If you ever use the word 'slut' to belittle someone or degrade them, you are slut-shaming. If you call a woman a slut for how she dresses, you are slut-shaming because you're belittling her. Even if you try to say your intention wasn't belittling her, deep down it was because you purposely used a derogatory term, you know? But, if you simply say you disagree with women showing their bodies, then it wouldn't be slut-shaming. Sure, it's still a bit sexist to think women's bodies shouldn't be shown, but you're not really shaming the woman for it. But like the article says, slut-shaming can be done without use of the word 'slut'. If you were to say you believed women showing their bodies was trashy, that would be slut-shaming because you are shaming them.

    We don't have to approve of everything everyone does, but we can disagree with someone without shaming them. For example, I disagree with violence in every instance, I never believe in using violence to solve problems so I morally disagree with people who choose to use violence to solve their problems. But at the same time, I won't shame these people for using violence (unless they're, you know, serial killers or something). That was a horrible example, I'm sorry. v.v I'm just a pretty open person who doesn't have a problem with much so that's the only example I could think of. I personally believe in live and let live, you know? As long as you're not hurting anyone physically or mentally, I don't give a shit about how you live your life. It isn't my problem.

    I'm not doing well at explaining this. I'm sorry. XD But I'd really recommend reading the article, it's pretty informative and did a hell of a lot better than I did explaining it.
    May 14th, 2013 at 06:31am
  • charming.

    charming. (135)

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    Airi.:
    But like the article says, slut-shaming can be done without use of the word 'slut'. If you were to say you believed women showing their bodies was trashy, that would be slut-shaming because you are shaming them.
    But this is labelling the woman a slut. Probably against her will. What woman wants to be told "you're a slut, but that's okay! no shame!" - I certainly wouldn't want to be told that. I'd prefer to not be called a slut. I would say that my dress or behaviour does not warrant being given the slur. This would be like someone saying "you're a [Jewish slur], but that's okay!" or "you're a [black slur], but that's okay!" It's still a slur. It's still offensive. It's not empowering. It's not right. I don't think people should call out "slut-shaming" as "slut-shaming" - they should call out the motive behind the word use, since it's the use of the word - the motive behind the use - which is the [central] problem. Saying "you're a sexually empowered woman, and [duh] that's okay!" actually gets the positive point across. Saying you're an African American and [duh] that's okay! saying you're a Jewish person and [duh] that's okay! The slur should not be a part of the attempt at reinforcing-that-the-thing-is-okay. (thing being behaviour or trait.)
    May 14th, 2013 at 06:51am
  • kafka.

    kafka. (150)

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    @ Airi.

    The thing about the "reclamation" of slut is that it's pretty weird because,

    a) it's not "reclaimed" in a positive context and people are not allowed to self-identify with it - when "queer" started being "reclaimed" people went on and on (and on) waxing lyrically about how great and empowering it is, the word started being used in a lot of positive contexts to mean, e.g., bringing the concerns of "queer" / LGBT people to centre stage or adopt "radical" politics (see, for example, books like, Queering the Renaissance or The Queer Art of Failure etc) - but "slut-shaming" is not a positive context, being told someone's shaming you for your sexuality doesn't empower you or make "slut" seem like a great / interesting / good / exciting thing. Moreover, people are not allowed to claim "slut" as an identity, they're just told they're "sluts" who are being shamed - I feel about "slut shaming" the same way I feel about that word for racism aimed at Romani people which has a horrible slur in it which Romani people have been trying to get white people to stop using to refer to them - I'm not going to say it because just thinking about it makes me cringe, if you can't have enough basic respect for a group of people not to talk about their oppression by using dreadful slurs, how committed are you really to helping them out?

    b) even when it is celebrated and "properly" "reclaimed" slut is the celebration of a specific type of sexuality, not that of all women, so it and "slut-shaming" shouldn't be applied to all women - quite a lot has been already said about how the reclamation of "slut" is only available for white / western women, for example, but I'm also reminded of how the other day someone said that feminists have no problem reclaiming either "bitch" and "slut", but will still not touch "lesbian" (or lesbians) with a 10 foot pole since that's the worst insult. "Slut" feels like this celebration of "empowered", attractive, gender conforming heterosexuality while lesbians are, you know, angry mannish man-haters whose sexuality is either nonexistent, made to seem "prudishness", or threatening to the empowered straight women. I do think / know that "slut" is often used against bi women, but I think when people want to hurt women specifically for sleeping with other women, especially if they're gender nonconforming, they'll go for an entirely different level of insults. Soooo, my point is why do we need a term that people claim to mean "women being shamed for their sexuality" but that actually means "white heterosexual women shamed for their sexuality".
    May 14th, 2013 at 09:14am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ pravda.
    I'll just have to disagree because I don't think that we see eye to eye on this issue. We haven't when it comes to other words either. I think people should be able to be free and expressive with those they consider friends and that their conversations should not be held to the same level of political correctness I would expected in other situations.
    May 15th, 2013 at 12:41am
  • Airi.

    Airi. (2240)

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    @ pravda.
    I don't know if I'm understanding your post right but if I am, that is what I was trying to say. I was trying to make the point that even if someone isn't directly using the word slut, they can still be slut-shaming. I've noticed some people think slut-shaming is only when you directly label them with the actual word, so I was trying to point out that it can be done even when you're not directly saying the word.
    May 15th, 2013 at 03:39am
  • maus.

    maus. (400)

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    I found this on Tumblr, and I found it relevant.

    Hey! Did you know:

    sex is okay
    so is masturbation
    watching porn won’t make you impure
    one night stands are okay too
    having sex with multiple people doesn’t make you a slut
    even 3-somes or group sex and orgies are a-okay
    sex with the same gender is alright
    not having sex doesn’t make you a prude
    your body your choice no matter your gender
    shaming other people for who they have sex with, how much they have sex, and even their kinks make you NOT okay!


    This is what I know:

    It doesn't matter how many people or who the people I sleep with are. You don't get an opinion if the person(s) I am sleeping with I have known for five years, five minutes or if it's five people. Not only do you not get an opinion, you don't get to give me a title. My life, my body, my choices.

    I don't judge you on how many types of cereal you eat, whether you spotaniously had a bowl at a local dinner or if you've been eating cheerios for 9 years. If you borrowed some a a friends house. I don't care, we don't need to talk about it and I don't get to judge you.

    Also, if I want to go outside in a bandeau and shorts, I'm allowed. I can wear dresses in the style I want, shorts at the length I want and tops cropped or scooped as I like. Backless, lace back, short shorts, low-cut, crop top, it's my body and I'll dress it as I please. If the police consider my outfit indecent for public, I'll talk to them but I do not deserve your judgement and it is never your place to give it.

    Your morals are for you, and only you. I have mine, you have yours, Suzy has hers, Robbie has his and if we can all keep to ourselves, it'll be a good day.

    You is also used in a generalized manner and not aimed at anyone in this thread or at anyone in particular.
    May 15th, 2013 at 11:56am
  • charming.

    charming. (135)

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    ygritte.:
    watching porn won’t make you impure
    My issue with porn is less about some fallacious notion of purity vs impurity and more about the dehumanisation and commodification of women's body parts / bodies, the rife exploitation of women within the industry, and that you can rarely, if ever, be sure that you aren't watching sexual assault. I largely agree with the other points though.
    ygritte.:
    Not only do you not get an opinion, you don't get to give me a title.
    This was my point earlier. The problem with any message about "slut shaming" is that even if you are for taking away the shame, you're keeping the "slut" label. And I don't think that's helpful or fair.
    May 15th, 2013 at 12:13pm
  • maus.

    maus. (400)

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    @ pravda.
    I didn't even catch the porn part, oops. But I agree with you on that factor. I would never shame a woman who has been in an adult film, but I do agree with your thought there.
    May 15th, 2013 at 12:18pm
  • Sansa Stark

    Sansa Stark (930)

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    As long as you're of age, know exactly what you're doing and trust whoever you're doing it with won't hurt you, FUCK AT WILL, PEOPLE!

    I really don't understand why sex is viewed as such a shameful thing. OH MY GOD A PENIS WOW BETTER CENSOR IT! Facepalm
    May 15th, 2013 at 12:29pm
  • acid fairy

    acid fairy (100)

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    didn't read the arguments just wanted to get my point across! sex is an enjoyable act. someone should do something enjoyable with another consenting person & not have to be judged for it.
    May 16th, 2013 at 04:16pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ cosimcute
    Slut-shaming involves a lot more than just sex those. It's when someone judges someone because their clothes aren't conservative enough. Or the girl was "too drunk" for it to be rape.
    May 16th, 2013 at 05:21pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    Got in a "debate" on 9gag about how if a woman wears a low-cut shirt she should allow men their "right" to stare at her tits like a lecherous old man. About how girls who wear low-cut shirts are obviously wearing them for the sole purpose of men's pleasure. They couldn't possibly want to wear the shirt because they like it. One guy said they are "both" in the wrong, him for staring and her for "not dressing appropriately".

    How can people think slut-shaming doesn't exist when thoughts like this are so pervasive in our culture? "If you wear a low cut shirt, expect to be raped or leered at." (Yeah, someone said if you got raped it was your fault for wearing the low cut shirt.)

    Slut-shaming exists.
    May 16th, 2013 at 10:49pm
  • pluto is a planet

    pluto is a planet (100)

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    @Psychotic Secrets

    I've been called a slut for no reason before. I was just walking through the hallway and someone called me a slut and whore. I wasn't even wearing anything revealing and didn't have a boyfriend at the time let alone do somebody else's. And I've seen people who were raped be called a slut by their own family and peers though you know that they wouldn't do that because you know them. Not everyone who is called a slut is actually one.
    May 16th, 2013 at 11:54pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ Ocean_Song
    Not to mention there's no definition of "slut". It can't exist because there can't be a definition. It changes per person. Some people think rape victims are sluts and some people think women who sleep with someone who isn't their boyfriend is a slut. They're all wrong. There's no such thing as a slut.
    May 17th, 2013 at 12:05am
  • Sansa Stark

    Sansa Stark (930)

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    @ dru's troubled soul
    9gag is the worst place to bring a topic like this up, since a large amount of users are sexist horny teenage boys ._.
    May 17th, 2013 at 10:25am
  • Sansa Stark

    Sansa Stark (930)

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    Here in Southern Europe it gets really hot sometimes, yesterday it was 34°C so I put on a skirt (up to my knees) and V-neck tank top that has a sort of burlesque feel to it with lace and whatnot, but it really isn't that revealing, tbh. Anyway, my mom called me off on wearing that because she heard people talking trash about me. Stuff like "she's too fat to wear that" or "if she was my daughter she'd be locked at home" or "I bet she's an expensive whore". I'm 21, it was hot outside, why am I not entitled to wear whatever the fuck I want to wear?
    May 17th, 2013 at 10:32am