Slut-Shaming

  • papa cat;

    papa cat; (150)

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    @ gonna hear dru roar.
    Why dont we all just tell the work clothing etiquette and uniform for work/school to fuck off and dress like in bras and undie-sized pants? Shouldnt matter what other people think, right?
    Im not offended by anything, as for the 12 year olds, I didnt mean crop tops and shorts. I meant D-cup pushup bras sticking out of a very short loose shirt and shorts that stop at half up their asses.
    If you saw a 12 year old in a stripper pole would you approve? Its her choice on life right? Nothing wrong there!!
    September 23rd, 2013 at 10:13pm
  • Alsoldey

    Alsoldey (230)

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    @ papa cat;
    I agree with you though. There's a limit to this whole "wear whatever you want" thing. If you want a professional job, that's when you should reconsider your choice in clothing. Its the same for school, yeah you can look cute, but...why bother? When I was in high school I hated it, I just wanted to get shit done and be over with the day.

    I definitely would not approve of a 12-year-old doing that. Like no, mama, you're a baby please step off the pole and let me get you into a body suit so we can put you in proper dance classes, if in the near future you want to make me drool at you, then I'll put you in those kinds of dancing classes. Make all of them bow to you, etc etc. But not when you're just barely out of the cradle.
    September 23rd, 2013 at 11:07pm
  • papa cat;

    papa cat; (150)

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    @ SmilingScarlet
    Thank you. I am glad someone sees sense in things :)
    September 23rd, 2013 at 11:45pm
  • Alsoldey

    Alsoldey (230)

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    @ papa cat;
    For real though! If I had a 12-year-old daughter I would not let her her go out dressed with barely anything on. Fuck no! I do not care what others will say to her, what I do care about is any man daring to lay a finger on her. That's the main point one should always have in mind. Really though, I'd kill a man--or woman--if they ever dared to touch my child. "They deserved it for what they were wearing!" Then they deserve a hot poker in very painful places because their actions were just begging to be disciplined.

    Completely irrelevant but my point is, the slut shaming isn't the issue, the issue is that there is a limit to this!
    September 24th, 2013 at 12:12am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ papa cat;
    A professional environment is very different than a "walking down the street" environment. I don't wear professional clothes to go to the mall and I highly doubt you're suggesting I should have to.

    Yes, you have the right to instill morals in your children insofar as teaching them what they should wear.

    However, I still don't think it's appropriate to slut shame children over their clothing choices.

    Additionally, a twelve year old stripping is against the law. Yes, I have a problem with that. Grown men paying money to see a child strip is against the law.

    A child wearing clothes they like is not.
    September 24th, 2013 at 04:27am
  • Alsoldey

    Alsoldey (230)

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    @ gonna hear dru roar.
    Though I get it, someone slut shaming a child for such things is a deserving of a good two by four to the face. Yeah, I'm totally suggesting that you wear nothing but professional clothing to a mall. Buy all the things with class... lmfao

    Its a funny thought though.
    September 25th, 2013 at 06:34am
  • IgniteTheDarkness

    IgniteTheDarkness (100)

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    Slut-shaming is about shaming people for being sexual, specifically women.

    Men are usually taught the more sex the better: "Hey man you got laid? High five!"

    Women, however, are taught to be conservative of their bodies. Only have sex with romantic partners (after meeting specific qualifications). This comes from the misogynist belief that women need to live up to some myth of "sexual purity" to be worthy. Keeping that in mind, when a woman does not meet this standard, she is labeled a "slut" which often means she is gross, disgusting, dirty, easy, etc nasty things.

    "You had sex with some random guy last night? You slut."

    Its really all double standard here. And it all originates in men being powerful and in control of their bodies, and women needing to to do with their bodies what will make others happy and consider them decent women. Its really disgusting when you think of where all this comes from, as it comes from women needing to "spare themselves" for men. If they aren't virgin when they marry, they are dirty and 'sluts'. This standard is not as bad, but it is still very bad. Considering men can still actively take control of their bodies and have sex, but women are not supposed too.

    So slut shaming, is when a woman goes "fuck this standard", and has sex if she wants to have sex. When she decides to do what she wants with her body, not what others want her to do with her body. It happens when she takes back control of her sexuality.

    She starts having sex when she wants. Just like men do she may go out and look to get laid. She might have specific sexual needs she is looking to meet. But then she is shamed, and degraded, and called a slut.

    Slut shaming also happens when a woman decides she wants to dress her body how she likes, and if she likes to dress in a way that shows her body, or doesn't try to hide her body. Regardless what you think of this, she does not deserve to be degraded for having skin, and having it shown.

    Men can wear shorts, no shirts (and before you even think of it, breasts are not sexual organs. They serve no sexual purpose. They were just sexualized, wrongly I might add. Men have the same ones, with less tissue). A woman wears a skirt and shirt (which is already more then they guy), and maybe she has cleavage.

    This is really just a body, just like it is for men. If men are not dressing revealing, neither are women. If you argue that they are, this comes from sexualizing their bodies. Think of how a man nearly dressed is just practical, and a woman nearly dressed is a "slut". This is oppressive, and a system designed upon women's bodies being sexual objects. They are not.

    Women are often slut shamed for that. For wearing "revealing" clothes (which again, men can do, they wear shorts and tank tops all the time (if they even wear a shirt)), and for having sex. None of these are shame worthy.

    Really, the reason slut shaming is wrong, is because you should never shame sex (sex is not even shame worthy, it is completely natural and personal), and because slut shaming is just what happens when a woman treats her body and sexuality like a man treats his.

    Lets just abolish these standards that say it is our job to hold anyone to an imperfect sexual and human standard. Keep our noses out of other peoples bodies and sex lives.
    September 27th, 2013 at 07:22am
  • ptvjaime

    ptvjaime (1600)

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    I don't really care if you're having sex with a lot of people. Do what you want. Just please use protection. But I don't like women against slut shaming other women and not against slut shaming men. Can we just not do it to anyone? Because that would be awesome. And please don't pretend it doesn't happen to men. Please don't. It happens to everyone. Of all ages and ALL genders. Hell, I think I've seen it happen on RuPaul's drag race before. In fact, I'm almost certain I have. The popular theory is that men don't get judged, but women judge them. Ashley Purdy of Black Veil Brides and Dan Flint of You Me At Six have been called easy and manwhores and the like. It doesn't make it okay to do it to just men.
    October 3rd, 2013 at 08:23am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ jaime preciado.
    It happens more to women and is more pervasive in mainstream culture. We don't often see the mainstream media (newscasters, magazines, newspapers, etc.) slut shaming men. At least, I can't think of a time it happened in recent future. I can remember Miley Cyrus being slut-shamed, the Steubenville rape victim being slut shamed, the dead rape victim from India being slut shamed, etc. But Robin Thicke shamed for promoting rape? Never.
    October 3rd, 2013 at 04:17pm
  • ptvjaime

    ptvjaime (1600)

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    Blurred Lines does not promote rape. If you don't know that much about his music, it doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't know that, but that's not what it is. On top of that, Miley sang it with him. Keep that in mind. And on top of that, I couldn't give four fucks about how some twenty-year-old singer who played a performance for the controversy is getting treated by the media considering she's letting it roll right off her back anyway. I, however, do have male friends and female friends who have been slut shamed and it hurts their feelings and makes them feel as though they can't express themselves sexually. I have male friends and female friends who have not been taken seriously by the police when they report rape because of this crap. Just because something isn't widespread in both genders doesn't mean it isn't there. And no matter which gender wins the contest, because some people seem to treat it like one, everyone experiences it. So can't we just say, it's bad EVERYWHERE and we should stop?
    October 3rd, 2013 at 06:41pm
  • ptvjaime

    ptvjaime (1600)

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    Double post because I am on my phone and text boxes have character limits. I apologize. The reason I even mention men is that my "serious feminist" girlfriend seems to think it's okay for us to slut shame men because all men are part of the patriarchy. While women can explore their sexuality and dress how they want, men can't because they've already done it and apparently she wants to get back at them for it or something. And I wanted to point out it's not okay to devalue anyone no matter what. I understand it mostly happens to women. But in my life experiences, I've seen it happen to all of my friends no matter the gender. I disagree with it. That's my stance. I just don't see why that stance isn't good enough because I say I want it to end for everyone. Equality is important in my eyes. This is just one issue that is a hindrance toward it.
    October 3rd, 2013 at 07:06pm
  • hazuki.

    hazuki. (175)

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    @ jaime preciado.
    That line of Blurred Lines "I know you want it" surely makes it to the top ten things rapists tell their victims. Luckily I've never been raped, but I've been pressured to have sex and I've heard that line more times than I can even bother counting. It's really disrespectful and misogynistic (women are all brain-dead beings who doesn't know not even what they want).

    This song isn't an open apology to rape, but it does promote that stupid idea that when women say "no" they're actually saying "yes" and that all it takes it's a little more persuasion to make them "give in".

    But I agree with you in the equality thing.
    October 3rd, 2013 at 08:02pm
  • ptvjaime

    ptvjaime (1600)

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    Well, look at what Robin Thicke himself says. There's an interview with him online, can't link from this shitty flip phone. He says it's about being the man who isn't put off by what a woman wants and empowering her sexuality. And you know what? Beyonce says the same line in one of her songs, but it's viewed differently because she's a woman. Anything can be read differently, the most famous example being the Bible. I've been a fan of Robin for years. He isn't that kind of man. He's actually really upset people think that's what it's about. He says it's more about the blurred lines between men and women. That we're more alike than we realize. And that women shouldn't be afraid to be sexual. I know you want it is a cocky line in this context, and aren't a good deal of erotic romance novels about men knowing what the women want and telling her that? I'm going with Robin's interpretation because it's his song. We can read it how we please, but he said what it meant to him.
    October 3rd, 2013 at 08:09pm
  • hazuki.

    hazuki. (175)

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    @ jaime preciado.
    jaime preciado.:
    Beyonce says the same line in one of her songs, but it's viewed differently because she's a woman.
    I see a world of difference in both songs and not only because she's a woman saying it to a guy.
    jaime preciado.:
    He's actually really upset people think that's what it's about.
    Funny, because he's been singing those lyrics and not happy with it he still made a video with half naked girls dancing to him and his pals and then he gets all upset because people are getting the wrong idea about his work?

    It doesn't really make much sense to me.

    An artist expresses his ideas through his work and if Thicke made this far in his career he must be smart enough to realize how it would look to his audience. And I'm pretty positive he wouldn't ever say in an interview something like, "sure guys, I've made a video degrading women, deal with it", it wouldn't look very nice. These things he's saying just sound like damage control to me.
    jaime preciado.:
    I know you want it is a cocky line in this context, and aren't a good deal of erotic romance novels about men knowing what the women want and telling her that?
    Maybe some women get off to that, but personally, this sort of line annoys me very much.
    And the fact that it is portrayed in a positive light in books doesn't make it okay in real life.
    October 3rd, 2013 at 09:39pm
  • ptvjaime

    ptvjaime (1600)

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    You know what? This is really a moot point because you can't trash Robin and still praise Miley. She sang the song with him, and if it's so obvious it'sa song about rape, does that make the rest of the female population, including her, too dense to realize it? I think not. I think it's a song that can crry two meanings. The meaning I get is that he's for female sexual empowerment. Maybe the wording wasn't perfect. Most wording isn't. Considering we're n a writing website, I would hope that could be understood.

    Miley said she planned the performance out to cause controversy and performed with Robin Thcke. Even if you think his song is a rape anthem, do you then need to step back and question why she performed it with him? If she didn't want to, she culd say no. It wouldn't destroy her career, especially if she went public with her outrage.

    Robin's video director was a woman who encouraged the nudit in the video. He requested a clothed version as well. His wife told him to go ahead and put the nude version out too. So you can look at this as women or female empowerment since part of not slut shaming is not telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. Maybe the women in the video enjoyd it. Unless you personally know them, you don't know.

    Which goes for Robin as well. You can say he wouldn't come out and say he wrote a song about rap. Most people wouldn't. But you don't seem willing to even consider the possibility that it was misconstrued and he is actually unhappy about that. Whenas an artist your work is taken in a way you didn't want, you get upset. To give a relative Mibba example, Milk. I think it's a great story. But that han't stopped people from trashing it.

    Everything is relative. I read an erotic romance where a woman had been slut shamed into not pursuing her sexuality and a man picked up on that and was greatly upset by it. Blurred Lines can fit in that context too. Maybe you don't like being told what you want. Mayb you like a man who maybe has an inkling about it. Or maybe you like guys like Robin Thicke who blatantly tell you they know you're stifling your sexualty. It can be frustrating when it's wrong and men are harassing you. But some women actively like these men and so you can't tell these men to just stopperiod because, hey, some people dig it. You can tell him to leave you alone and take affirmative action when he doesn't.

    But don't judge them. That is't fair. Keep in mind that morals teach some women to hide their sexuality, but negative environments can turn men into jerks, too. It happens, especialy when male relatives treating females poorly is observed through most of childhood.

    Robin Thicke up until now has catered to a rather specific audienc. He was always well-known, but he's gotten exponentially more popular today. I don't really know why. He just has. But I know I used to not have dozensof female friends who were also fans until he became more famous.

    There are men who actively slut shame in the music business. Kanye West did it to hisown wife on his new album. Something Sight, I'm not a fan but I remember a dear friend telling me about the song. In which he slut shames Kim for sleepig with black men. It's in a lot of rap songs. Blatant and obvious with no apology whatsoever.

    So okay. With your experiences and your life, you interprt a song a certain way. Maybe you don't agree with me. Can we at least agree our different life experiences make us see things in different lights than ach other? I can accept that. But I don't accept that he's a bad person because of how some people's lives are different than mine.

    There are some people in my life who have been victims of sexual assault. One of them is a woman, and she and I listened to Blurred Lines together. She didn't like tha line, but she said it didn't make Robin Thicke a promoter of rape.

    But you can believe what you want to. Just at least understand that not all of us Rbin Thicke fans are missing the "point" of the song. Differents experiences and views surround all sorts of things, such as why some women don't like Bela from Twilight or adore Britney Spears. It's just a difference, not us defending a rape promoter.

    Speaking of violence against women though. Can we ht on the rap music? Or the video games? *cough*Grand Theft Auto*cough* There are a lot of examples, after all. Or better yet, the amount of slut shaminginvolved when a writer decides to get the ex out of the way, the ex is turned into a person who has tons of sex. Or the love interest shouldn't like thecompetion because she sleeps with a lot of guys. And then there are stories where the love interest rapes the MC and it's treated as normal. What the acual fuck?

    All I'm saying is, don't judge things you read based on what you think they mean, then just don't listen to the writer. Because maybe they'rebeing honest. You don't know them well enough to judge. And I'm pretty sure no one on this forum personally knows Robin Thicke well enough to make the jdgment call on his stance on rape.

    And I admire women who set boundaries and don't let men do whatever. I'm sorry men treat you badly or poorly or makeyou sick and annoyed and disgusted and scared. Some men suck. But not all of them do. Just like some women suck.
    October 4th, 2013 at 12:12am
  • hazuki.

    hazuki. (175)

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    @ jaime preciado.
    jaime preciado.:
    You know what? This is really a moot point because you can't trash Robin and still praise Miley.
    I didn't "trash" Robin and I surely didn't say a word about Miley Cyrus.
    jaime preciado.:
    The meaning I get is that he's for female sexual empowerment. Maybe the wording wasn't perfect.
    Unfortunately, that goes very beyond simple bad wording. In the interviews he says is for female empowerment, but his songs and videos show another thing altogether. That's what I see.
    jaime preciado.:
    Even if you think his song is a rape anthem, do you then need to step back and question why she performed it with him?
    I said in my post I didn't think this song was an open apology to rape. Good question, I don't even know why Miley did it. Maybe she thought it was a good idea and didn't pay attention to the lyrics? Who knows.
    jaime preciado.:
    Robin's video director was a woman who encouraged the nudit in the video. He requested a clothed version as well. His wife told him to go ahead and put the nude version out too.
    Women can slut-shame and be misogynists too. Not saying these two ladies are, but their simple participation or approval on this video doesn't mean much.
    jaime preciado.:
    So you can look at this as women or female empowerment since part of not slut shaming is not telling a woman what she can and cannot do with her body. Maybe the women in the video enjoyd it. Unless you personally know them, you don't know.
    Right. I'm not very concerned about the ladies in this video, actually. They've done it properly, freely and were well paid for it. I'm more worried about the impact of the sort of thinking that this video is an example of, for women in real life.
    jaime preciado.:
    But you don't seem willing to even consider the possibility that it was misconstrued and he is actually unhappy about that.
    Hm...no. This song was most likely composed by a large group of people, including Thicke, and not in one single day, or even in one week. This is the freaking main single of his album, it's the sort of thing that an artist put a lot of thought and effort into, it just doesn't happen by accident. Now, he may be unhappy that it backfired, but that's another story.
    jaime preciado.:
    Mayb you like a man who maybe has an inkling about it. Or maybe you like guys like Robin Thicke who blatantly tell you they know you're stifling your sexualty. It can be frustrating when it's wrong and men are harassing you. But some women actively like these men and so you can't tell these men to just stopperiod because, hey, some people dig it.
    There's a difference between allowing a guy to take control of the situation and have him saying something like "let me do this to you because I know you will like it" (that's what BDSM is about, for example, and that's perfectly ok), and having a guy forcing himself on the woman, claiming he knows better than her.
    jaime preciado.:
    Maybe you don't like being told what you want. You can tell him to leave you alone and take affirmative action when he doesn't.
    If you ever been in that situation when you have a guy telling you "I know you want it" you will know how powerless you get. Once I needed the help of friends to get away from one of these guys who "knew I wanted it", I wouldn't be able to handle him alone. If my friends weren't there or didn't notice I was in trouble I wouldn't be able to take affirmative action. Men are normally physically stronger than women. Sometimes you aren't able to make yourself heard because this sort of logic makes men completely deaf to what women are trying to say, especially if it is a "no". That's why this song bothers me so much.
    jaime preciado.:
    There are men who actively slut shame in the music business. Kanye West did it to hisown wife on his new album.
    I know, I just commented on Thicke because it was who you were talking about.
    jaime preciado.:
    Can we at least agree our different life experiences make us see things in different lights than ach other? I can accept that. But I don't accept that he's a bad person because of how some people's lives are different than mine.
    Ok, agreed.
    I never said he's a bad person. I don't even know him. Maybe he's a good guy, after all. I just don't like the message in his song and that was what I pointed out. This is the sort of logic that makes women's life difficult sometimes.
    October 4th, 2013 at 01:40am
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ jaime preciado.
    A song that calls women animals and says consent isn't important? A guy who says its fun to demean women? No, not rapey at all.
    October 4th, 2013 at 01:55am
  • memphisveil

    memphisveil (100)

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    I believe if a girl wants to wear low cut tops and short skirts, it's her right as a person. HOWEVER, she should be respective about it if she's going somewhere there will be kids, because that's just indecent. Now, I don't mean just a short skirt or something, I mean showing off her goodies.

    There's just a time an a place for everything. If you're going to a party and want to show your tits, hey, that's your right. But don't go into a chuck e cheese wearing a g string and a fishnet top with pasties, you know? Time and place.

    As for the sexual aspect. People use the word slut to describe anyone having more sex than them. And the age old thing: if a man does it, he's cool, if a woman does it, she's a slut. It seems to have become glorified on tv shows for both genders to have sex with many people. But in real life, it's not so much. The only people who really should be dictated on how often they have sex is a minor, and that's only by their parents to have a say in.

    Once people stop having so many opinions on the ways other people live their lives, especially the parts that have no effect on them, this world will be a better place. Why should you care who a person loves, gender or race wise. Why should you care how many people a person has sex with? It doesn't effect you.

    The only time you really have a right to say anything is if you were out with your young child somewhere and there are two people blatantly having sex in a public place or something. Because that's just indecent. And that really depends on where YOU take them. I mean, if there's a couple having sex in the produce section of Walmart, sure, by all means, that's your right. But if you take a child to a strip club, that's your fault.

    Otherwise, it doesn't effect you.
    October 12th, 2013 at 06:53pm
  • folie a dru.

    folie a dru. (1270)

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    @ memphisveil
    I'm all for top freedom laws. If a guy can walk down the street with no shirt on, I should be able to as well.
    October 13th, 2013 at 01:31am
  • memphisveil

    memphisveil (100)

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    @ gonna hear dru roar.
    Right?! Jeez. Wouldn't that be awesome??
    October 13th, 2013 at 02:56am