Racism

ha_ha_you're_screwed:

Kurtni:

ha_ha_you're_screwed:

And that's fine but I'm getting ganged up on for my opinion on the book. I like what i have read so far it's just that some of it is rough. That's all I'm trying to say yet.

Do you think Harper Lee is wrong for writting the book that way?

No, not at all, it doesn't hold back. the reality of it is amazing.

Ok, the way you were phrasing things it made it seem as if you thought the book was immoral and "fucked up", which is why everyone was disagreeing with you so strongly.

I've been searching for lyrics with the word nigger in them and found an odd result.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/u2/elvisateamerica.html
"The white nigger
Ate a cheeseburger and just kept getting bigger"

White nigger?

Because nigger actually means "ignorant" and up until the slave trade, it was used as such. When other countries started participating in the slave trade, they used that word as a deragatory turn for the black people they enslaved.

Ok, let me rephrase why I said it was fucked up. The way people were treated was fucked up, that's why after reading the quotes I said that. It's an amazing book, and even though I have only read parts of it, I really like it. No one knew what I meant by fucked up and now you know.

SuperTrendy:

Tas; Chemical Love.:

For the last time... I did read the song and anazlyze it. And you know what? I still find it completely and utterly ridiculious and racist.

Out of interest can I ask what your race is?

My mother is black. My father is half Syrian and Native American.

Alrighty, I have a couple comments to make.

One- Super Trendy is right. One can never really understand the pain of a word unless you are in the group being discriminated against. I don't know what it's like to be called a faggot. I don't know what it's like to be called a spic. You all can tell me how to feel when I hear the word "nigger" once you slip into some black skin and have a white person call you that. You can tell me how to feel when you darker up and watch American History X. You can tell me how to feel when you're a black child and you see a commercial on TV when your only 7 years old, telling you that blacks and Jews aren't allowed in a certain country club. When that happens to you THEN you can tell me how to react. Until then, don't tell me how to feel against the words that tore my ancestors down and broke their spirits. Don't tell me not to be hurt when white people are singing about being "rock 'n' roll niggers". Don't tell me that I'm silly for calling out racism when I see it. I'm not a fool. Don't try to make me out that way.

Two- To Kill A Mockingbird and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn are great American classics which serve a point to stand up against racism.

*Sigh* Rant over.

Tas; Chemical Love.:

Alrighty, I have a couple comments to make.

One- Super Trendy is right. One can never really understand the pain of a word unless you are in the group being discriminated against. I don't know what it's like to be called a faggot. I don't know what it's like to be called a spic. You all can tell me how to feel when I hear the word "nigger" once you slip into some black skin and have a white person call you that. You can tell me how to feel when you darker up and watch American History X. You can tell me how to feel when you're a black child and you see a commercial on TV when your only 7 years old, telling you that blacks and Jews aren't allowed in a certain country club. When that happens to you THEN you can tell me how to react. Until then, don't tell me how to feel against the words that tore my ancestors down and broke their spirits. Don't tell me not to be hurt when white people are singing about being "rock 'n' roll niggers". Don't tell me that I'm silly for calling out racism when I see it. I'm not a fool. Don't try to make me out that way.

No one ever said they knew how it felt to be degraded in such a way, although you shouldn't assume that they don't really. The point was that song was NOT degrading. It wasn't using the term in a deragatory way, it was showing how the term was void,silly; how it was ignorant to use. In your own words "This song was an outlet for their pent up frustrations of racism" Also in your own words; "if you don't see that then you are blind." I thought the meaning was pretty obvious.

However, you seemed to have totally changed your mind now.
"Don't tell me not to be hurt when white people are singing about being "rock 'n' roll niggers"
Well, find one post where someone said you couldn't be hurt by it. No one did, you shouldn't try and put words in peoples mouths. Now, pent up frustrations and singing about being niggers are two totally different things, and would give the song very different meanings. This song speaks out against racism, and you're criticizing it for that. Why shouldn't the song use the term nigger when it's speaking out against it? Not using the word isn't going to change history; you can't shelter the past. You can however show the mistakes we've made and right the wrongs that have occured.

Kurtni:

No one ever said they knew how it felt to be degraded in such a way, although you shouldn't assume that they don't really. The point was that song was NOT degrading. It wasn't using the term in a deragatory way, it was showing how the term was void,silly; how it was ignorant to use. In your own words "This song was an outlet for their pent up frustrations of racism" Also in your own words; "if you don't see that then you are blind." I thought the meaning was pretty obvious.

However, you seemed to have totally changed your mind now.
"Don't tell me not to be hurt when white people are singing about being "rock 'n' roll niggers"
Well, find one post where someone said you couldn't be hurt by it. No one did, you shouldn't try and put words in peoples mouths. Now, pent up frustrations and singing about being niggers are two totally different things, and would give the song very different meanings. This song speaks out against racism, and you're criticizing it for that. Why shouldn't the song use the term nigger when it's speaking out against it? Not using the word isn't going to change history; you can't shelter the past. You can however show the mistakes we've made and right the wrongs that have occured.

First of all, don't call me silly and degrade my intelligence...

Secondly, how can you say that people on this thread aren't telling me not to be offended? That's all you are telling me. You (along with others) have come here to tell me that the song was not meant to be racist and that I shouldn't be offended. Please, spare me. I'll be offended by what offends me end of discussion. Sorry, I don't find it musically enjoyable to hear "rockers" go on about rock 'n' rock niggers and how they are "speaking out" against racism. Let me go around and call myself a kyke. I wonder how many Jews would like that? Not too many, I would guess.

I didn't say that not using the word would change the past. But from what I can tell, you think that using it in a song that is "speaking out against racism" is okay. Alright, I'm gonna go in my recording studio and make a song called "Techno Spic". I bet it'll be a hit with the Hispanics...

I wasn't saying that you told me I couldn't be hurt by it. I was saying that you are telling me (in a nutshell) "Oh, this song isn't racist. You shouldn't be offended. You're jumping to conclusions by seeing just one word. Your silly if you don't understand that. You obviously didn't read the lyrics completely. Blah, blah, fucking blah." It's the same repetative bullshit. I'm simply saying that the usage of that word was unneccessary and racist in itself.

Boy, do I love repeating myself over and over like a fucking broken record player... Smell the sarcasm?

I never called you silly, but thanks for putting even more words in my mouth. :D Repeating yourself over and over again is quite fun, isn't it? So, I'll be trendy and do it once more. Find a post where someone said you can't be offended. I'll save you the trouble of looking; you won't find one. You can be offended by the song all you like and think the usage of the word is tasteless and not needed but that still doesn't make the song racist. THAT is what people have been telling you, I don't know how you got "don't be offended" out of that. It's your personal right to be offended by whatever you wish. And yeah, I do think the context in which Patti used the word is ok, like I've said 4967103670917 times so far. Using a word isn't racist, the context of how you use the word is what makes it racist. You're ok with To Kill a Mocking Bird using the word, you considered the context in that case. But now you say that the word is "racist in itself." when you're talking about the song. Why is the word racist in itself in the case of the song, but not the book? It's the same word.

"Oh, this song isn't racist."
Yep, said that.
"You shouldn't be offended."
Never once said that, nor did I ever imply it.
You're jumping to conclusions by seeing just one word.
And I think you are.
"Your silly if you don't understand that."
Once again, I never said that.
You obviously didn't read the lyrics completely.
Actually, I made it a point to say you did read the lyrics. :lmfao But whatever
Blah, blah, fucking blah.
I think that would have been alot more effective at this point actually..I find it really rude for you to accuse me of saying things I didn't.

Kurtni:

I never called you silly, but thanks for putting even more words in my mouth. :D Repeating yourself over and over again is quite fun, isn't it? So, I'll be trendy and do it once more. Find a post where someone said you can't be offended. I'll save you the trouble of looking; you won't find one. You can be offended by the song all you like and think the usage of the word is tasteless and not needed but that still doesn't make the song racist. THAT is what people have been telling you, I don't know how you got "don't be offended" out of that. It's your personal right to be offended by whatever you wish. And yeah, I do think the context in which Patti used the word is ok, like I've said 4967103670917 times so far. Using a word isn't racist, the context of how you use the word is what makes it racist. You're ok with To Kill a Mocking Bird using the word, you considered the context in that case. But now you say that the word is "racist in itself." when you're talking about the song. Why is the word racist in itself in the case of the song, but not the book? It's the same word.

"Oh, this song isn't racist."
Yep, said that.
"You shouldn't be offended."
Never once said that, nor did I ever imply it.
You're jumping to conclusions by seeing just one word.
And I think you are.
"Your silly if you don't understand that."
Once again, I never said that.
You obviously didn't read the lyrics completely.
Actually, I made it a point to say you did read the lyrics. :lmfao But whatever
Blah, blah, fucking blah.
I think that would have been alot more effective at this point actually..I find it really rude for you to accuse me of saying things I didn't.

Kurtni:

It wasn't using the term in a derogatory way, it was showing how the term was void,silly...

^Oh no. You didn't call me silly. I'm sorry for "putting words in your mouth."

I didn't mean that you said all of those things. When I said "you" I meant people on this thread are saying them. Not you individually. So I actually wasn't putting words in your mouth. Please, attempt to interpret what I say correctly. This will avoid the majority of miscommunication.

*Sigh* I'm not saying that people are saying I can't be offended. I'm saying that people are telling me I shouldn't be offended. Two totally different things...

To Kill A Mockingbird and Patti Smith/ Marilyn Manson crappy lyrics are from two totally different worlds. TKAM is a literary classic that stands up against racism in the south while Patti Smith and Marilyn Manson took advantage of their status in music to make a racist song. Yes, the word is still racist in itself. It doesn't change just because one is in a book and the other in a song. I never said that.

Tas; Chemical Love.:

^Oh no. You didn't call me silly. I'm sorry for "putting words in your mouth."

I didn't mean that you said all of those things. When I said "you" I meant people on this thread are saying them. Not you individually. So I actually wasn't putting words in your mouth. Please, attempt to interpret what I say correctly. This will avoid the majority of miscommunication.

*Sigh* I'm not saying that people are saying I can't be offended. I'm saying that people are telling me I shouldn't be offended. Two totally different things...

To Kill A Mockingbird and Patti Smith/ Marilyn Manson crappy lyrics are from two totally different worlds. TKAM is a literary classic that stands up against racism in the south while Patti Smith and Marilyn Manson took advantage of their status in music to make a racist song. Yes, the word is still racist in itself. It doesn't change just because one is in a book and the other in a song. I never said that.

Ok, well "it" is a pronoun, taking place of the song. I never once said you're silly, I said "it" was silly. So please, quit putting words in my mouth, and please don't take what I say out of context. And what you meant and what you said were two different things. If you meant to refer to the thread as a whole, you should have done so. You quoted me, therefore I assume you were talking to me, that's the point of quoting someone. Plus, you in that case was a singular pronoun, if you meant to refer to a group of people such as the thread you should have said "you guys" or "you all" or "the people in this thread, but when you quote someone and use you, it will be interpreted that you're talking to them. Maybe you should try to be a bit more clear in what you're trying to say, and don't tell me I interpret what you say incorrectly, because I didn't. You phrased it badly.

And no! Once again, no one is telling you that you shoulnd't be offended. I have never once said anything implying you shouldn't be offended, because in all honesty I don't really care if it offends you or not, that isn't what this discussion is about. It's about if that song is racist and that's what I've been talking about from point one. You personal feelings and what offends you aren't relevant to if the song is racist.

Now, there you go, yet again, saying "marilyn mansons" lyrics. He didn't write those lyrics, he has no legal ties to them aside from covering the song. Patti Smith wrote the song, not marilyn Manson. To Kill a Mockingbird is a great book,I agree. But you said the word is still racist in itself, so why is it ok to use the word in a book and not a song if there is no difference between the two? I love how a page or so ago, you said the song was about pent up frusteration about racism, and now it's just a racist song.

Tas; Chemical Love.:

To Kill A Mockingbird and Patti Smith/ Marilyn Manson crappy lyrics are from two totally different worlds. TKAM is a literary classic that stands up against racism in the south while Patti Smith and Marilyn Manson took advantage of their status in music to make a racist song.

Didn't you like.. have Coma White lyrics in your sig at one point?
Screw me, I have the memory of an elephant.
'Just bleeding like a polaroid that lost all her dolls'

Dunno, seeing as you're saying he's racist and all, struck me as odd.

BTW, Woo!, no fuck ups!

Bloodraine:

Tas; Chemical Love.:

To Kill A Mockingbird and Patti Smith/ Marilyn Manson crappy lyrics are from two totally different worlds. TKAM is a literary classic that stands up against racism in the south while Patti Smith and Marilyn Manson took advantage of their status in music to make a racist song.

Didn't you like.. have Coma White lyrics in your sig at one point?
Screw me, I have the memory of an elephant.
'Just bleeding like a polaroid that lost all her dolls'

Dunno, seeing as you're saying he's racist and all, struck me as odd.

BTW, Woo!, no fuck ups!

Yes. I did once have Marilyn Manson lyrics in my signature. That was before I found this song. I changed my signature immediately after.

What an amazing memory you have there. I'm impressed. :mrgreen:

Kurtni:

Ok, well "it" is a pronoun, taking place of the song. I never once said you're silly, I said "it" was silly. So please, quit putting words in my mouth, and please don't take what I say out of context. And what you meant and what you said were two different things. If you meant to refer to the thread as a whole, you should have done so. You quoted me, therefore I assume you were talking to me, that's the point of quoting someone. Plus, you in that case was a singular pronoun, if you meant to refer to a group of people such as the thread you should have said "you guys" or "you all" or "the people in this thread, but when you quote someone and use you, it will be interpreted that you're talking to them. Maybe you should try to be a bit more clear in what you're trying to say, and don't tell me I interpret what you say incorrectly, because I didn't. You phrased it badly.

And no! Once again, no one is telling you that you shoulnd't be offended. I have never once said anything implying you shouldn't be offended, because in all honesty I don't really care if it offends you or not, that isn't what this discussion is about. It's about if that song is racist and that's what I've been talking about from point one. You personal feelings and what offends you aren't relevant to if the song is racist.

Now, there you go, yet again, saying "marilyn mansons" lyrics. He didn't write those lyrics, he has no legal ties to them aside from covering the song. Patti Smith wrote the song, not marilyn Manson. To Kill a Mockingbird is a great book,I agree. But you said the word is still racist in itself, so why is it ok to use the word in a book and not a song if there is no difference between the two? I love how a page or so ago, you said the song was about pent up frusteration about racism, and now it's just a racist song.

Ok. Seeing as your entire post was about the rules in grammar, I'm not all that sure how to reply. So I'm going to do this...

Call a truce.

Me and you both have completely digressed from the issue at hand. Which is racism. We have taken to a level of personal attacks and I am stopping now. I am agreeing to disagree because I don't believe that we are ever going to come to an agreement. You are trying to change my views and I am trying to change yours. This isn't going to work because A.) we are both too stubborn and B.) We both have way too strong of opinions.

So truce?

But let me complement you on your persistance. Most people would have given up against me a long time ago. I'm impressed. And I hope that this encounter won't hinder us from being nice to each other in other threads...

The booing rose and died again as Piggy lifted the white, magic shell.
"Which is better--to be a pack of painted niggers like you are, or to be sensible like Ralph is?"

Hmm. This reminded me of this thread when I was reading last night. Its taken from Lord Of The Flies, by William Golding. Not so much an American classic like Harper Lee or Mark Twain, but a British one.

My TKAM quotes were all out of context, so I'll provide the context to to those who haven't read the book. Piggy, who is white British (as I thought you might want to know), is addressing the rather savage 'hunters' or children, who are also white british. They're covered in warpaint, hence the 'painted'

Racist? Literary masterpiece?

Bloodraine:

The booing rose and died again as Piggy lifted the white, magic shell.
"Which is better--to be a pack of painted niggers like you are, or to be sensible like Ralph is?"

Hmm. This reminded me of this thread when I was reading last night. Its taken from Lord Of The Flies, by William Golding. Not so much an American classic like Harper Lee or Mark Twain, but a British one.

My TKAM quotes were all out of context, so I'll provide the context to to those who haven't read the book. Piggy, who is white British (as I thought you might want to know), is addressing the rather savage 'hunters' or children, who are also white british. They're covered in warpaint, hence the 'painted'

Racist? Literary masterpiece?

I was actually just talking about this book yesterday. I read Lord of the Flies about a year ago and I loved it. Beautifully written and unique. I loved the plot and basic concept of the story. It's twisted in many sick ways and that's what I love about it.

As for that particular line... When I read that book and came across that line I was a little ruffled by it but then I though of the setting. Britain around the time of WWII. There was a lot of racism floating around all over the world. Children did know any better and that's how he depicted them. It's symbolism for innocence.

It's not racist.

It's a literary masterpiece.

Today I found this quote about Rock'N'Roll Nigger today:
"There's a song written about 20 years ago by Patti Smith...a bunch of cops came up to me and they said 'you can't sing that song!' They said it's against black people! Well, I want to explain to those moronic fucking idiots that the song is about people like me and you! So, I dedicate this song to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police force!" - Marilyn Manson

Lally:

Today I found this quote about Rock'N'Roll Nigger today:
"There's a song written about 20 years ago by Patti Smith...a bunch of cops came up to me and they said 'you can't sing that song!' They said it's against black people! Well, I want to explain to those moronic fucking idiots that the song is about people like me and you! So, I dedicate this song to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police force!" - Marilyn Manson

:roll:

Bloodraine:

You have a point.
Racism isn't so bad towards black people here now. Maybe for older generations, but most of the time, I don't hear much racism to black people.

I agree, in society it is no longer acceptable (not that it should be) to be rascist to a black person. However, people can be racist toward Mexicans, saying that they are all illegals, and no one has a problem with it. Racism is absolutely disgusting, and you would think by this day and age that it would be gone, but no, thats humanity for you.
The problem is that now everything is racial now. If a white kid attacked a black kid, (or the other way around)it would be automatically deemed as a racial conflict. When in reality, they may have just not liked each other, it may have had nothing to do with racism.

Bloodraine:

You have a point.
Racism isn't so bad towards black people here now. Maybe for older generations, but most of the time, I don't hear much racism to black people.

Racism against blacks is still very much a problem where I live.
Ever since Hurricane Katrinia it has gotten worse.