Transexual/Transgender rights

^ Transgender is an umbrella term that covers both crossdressing and transsexuality, but they're entirely different things. In the article you linked, Eddie Izzard says "If I had to describe how I feel in my head, I'd say I'm a complete boy plus half a girl." Trans women identify as women.

There are gender identities that fall outside the binary of man/woman such as agender and bigender, and those people also fall under the umbrella term transgender (though not transsexual). It seems to me that's what Eddie could identify as, though I don't really have the right to declare anyone's gender identity but mine.

pierrot the clown.:

^ Transgender is an umbrella term that covers both crossdressing and transsexuality, but they're entirely different things. In the article you linked, Eddie Izzard says "If I had to describe how I feel in my head, I'd say I'm a complete boy plus half a girl."

You cant apply that to all crossdressers. Not because you could swap it, but also because some may not have that thought.

And since we talk about 100%, wouldnt it be more appropriate to say 75% boy, 25% girl? Just wondering your opinion on that ^^

zazoo:

You cant apply that to all crossdressers. Not because you could swap it, but also because some may not have that thought.

And since we talk about 100%, wouldnt it be more appropriate to say 75% boy, 25% girl? Just wondering your opinion on that ^^

I'm sorry, but could you elaborate? I have no clue what you mean.

You can't generalize a whole group under one person's thought.

Not because you could swap the internal parts (in this example, "I was comple girl plus half boy"

you could only go to 100%. To full. No where beyond. the Pie theory. You can't have 205% of a pie. There is only 100%.

Or say there are 10 slices and you have nothing to cut it into more pieces/morph it into less pieces. You can't have 20 slices (200%) or 15 (150%) but only 10 (100%)

^
Except we're talking about the way a person is describing themselves, the way they understand themselves, their feelings. Not a mathematical equation.

Sure, technically, it doesn't make mathematical sense. But that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense period.

^I didn't say it had to make sense or it has to. I get what they say. But I was suggesting an alternative to the statement for OCD people like me ^^

BTW I have come to the conclusion we are exact opposites. As you seem to have a contradiction to everything I say :P <--- No aggresion attached ^^

^
I just like debating.

Maybe a bit too much. I think you developed a habit of contradicting everything anyone says (or at least me). I don't think it's good unless a job you want involves it (politicians, etc.)

I find it a bit annoying everytime I post something you are right there, contradicting it and picking at my sentences xD Just saying ^^

^
Then you probably shouldn't post on the Specific Discussion threads. The point of these threads is, pretty much, to debate. I'm not just going to agree with you if I don't.

zazoo:

Maybe a bit too much. I think you developed a habit of contradicting everything anyone says (or at least me). I don't think it's good unless a job you want involves it (politicians, etc.)

I find it a bit annoying everytime I post something you are right there, contradicting it and picking at my sentences xD Just saying ^^

That's what debating's all about though. Picking apart arguments and strengthening them.

^ I never asked you to. It appears you don't know a friendly gesture when shown.

Sorry Pierrot the Clown for being off topic.... heheh.

Alexface.:

That's what debating's all about though. Picking apart arguments and strengthening them.

Yeah, but come on it gets really annoying to have the same person contradict everything you say, everywhere. I don't mind having multiple people disagree with some things I say on this board, and on this board, but not on EVERY SINGLE ONE I COMMENT ON!

There's a difference between debating and picking a fight (debate).

zazoo:

There's a difference between debating and picking a fight (debate).

You would know if I were picking a fight, believe me.

Okay okay.

Can we get back on topic, please?

What rights do Trans not have?

^
Job protection in certain places.

Some hate crime laws do not cover gender identity.

Also, you have to be diagnosed as having a disorder [gender disphoria, if I'm correct] in order to get hormones/etc. which just seems wrong to me.

zazoo:

What rights do Trans not have?

- Discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity is still not illegal in a lot of places.
- In order to get their gender legally changed, they need to have had surgery. Some people are medically unable to undergo surgery, others can't afford it and some don't even want it.
- In order to get surgery or hormones, you need to be diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder. Needing all trans people to be diagnosed as mentally disordered is obviously stigmatizing (besides the fact that GID implies that trans people's genders are disordered, which they aren't). I've also come to realize that some gender therapists think there's only one way to be trans and tell their trans patients that they're not trans. For example, some therapists might think that if you didn't know you were trans since you were a child, then you're not. Others think that if their patient's dysphoria isn't too awful, then they're not trans. Invalidating a person's identity is, in my opinion, wrong.
- They may get in trouble when using public restrooms.
- They may be denied medical attention.
- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe hate crimes against trans people aren't considered hate crimes by the government. In some cases, the court justifies them after the offender uses the "trans panic" defense. Basically, the attacker says that they were "ridiculed" or "deceived" by the trans person and they justify their violence as an "instinctive", or something hideously transphobic and ridiculous along those lines.
- Etc.

Matt Smith:

Unless I'm mistaken, pierrot the clown. is trans, so as a cis person you telling him he's undermining the experience of being trans is a bit demeaning.

Being trans doesn't automatically mean what he says is indisputable truth and I should no longer have an opinion. At any rate, we're not really disagreeing about the trans experience, but what constitutes a disorder. I don't see how being trans makes him more knowledgeable about that.

Matt Smith:

The difference is that pierrot the clown's just saying what the rest of the trans community is saying.

If the rest of the trans community were all psychological experts, that might mean something. The trans community doesn't want to be identified as having a disorder because of the negative social stigma it carries, which is completely understandable, but as far as the science is concerned, it is a disorder when it causes impairment and stress, which it can. Not every trans person has a disorder, but most do at some point in their lives.

Refusing to accept GID as a disorder would mean there would be no way to obtain monetary assistance for things like hormone therapy or counseling. GRS usually isn't covered by most insurance companies sadly if someone wanted that option, but the other sometimes are.

Jewel Nicole:

Everyone has stress though, that doesn't automatically classify them as mentally ill.

Stress in itself isn't the problem, it's a symptom of how you feel about your gender. Anxiety and resentment towards yourself can also manifest as symptoms. It's not "just stress".

Kurtni:

Being trans doesn't automatically mean what he says is indisputable truth and I should no longer have an opinion. At any rate, we're not really disagreeing about the trans experience, but what constitutes a disorder. I don't see how being trans makes him more knowledgeable about that.

I'm less concerned with what you think constitutes a disorder but your original statement that pierrot the clown. was 'undermining the struggle of being transgendered'. I just think it came across as seriously problematic for you, as a cis person, to call out a trans person about them 'undermining the struggle of being transgendered'. He experiences the struggle of being trans every day of his life so you, as a cis person, don't need to inform him about the struggle of being trans and say he's undermining his own cause.