Voting Age

if sixteen year olds got the chance to vote, maybe they'll get more intrested in politics?

^
Or maybe they won't.
Seems like a stupid reason to give them the right to vote.
The off-chance that they might become interested in politics.

^
I agree. Besides they're too wrapped up in the lives of celebrities to notice what's actually going on in politics. Most of them are "rebels" and "anarchists" anyway (thank you wannabe political pop-punk bands). There are those who are interested - I was at a very young age but even then, they don't know what's going on. As pathetic as this sounds adults are more educated in politics and know that one politician will affect them more than another.

I wouldn't trust a 16 year old to vote, God knows what we'd end up with.

Dirty.LittleRockstar:

^
I agree. Besides they're too wrapped up in the lives of celebrities to notice what's actually going on in politics. Most of them are "rebels" and "anarchists" anyway (thank you wannabe political pop-punk bands). As pathetic as this sounds adults are more educated in politics and know that one politician will affect them more than another.

I wouldn't trust a 16 year old to vote, God knows what we'd end up with.

i'd like to say one thing, i know what i know for my country, it will effect me, especially if it has to do with tuition or something.
i personally, am rather educated in the Canadian politics and government, i know what's going on and i'm pretty sure i care more about who will be next for prime minister than many of the parents around here.

yes, most of them are wrapped up and whatnot in celebrities and are 'rebels' but, if they don't care about politics, why would they show up? you don't vote for American idol if you don't watch the show, eh?

but, yeah, i would be worried, especially if Stephan colbert [or how ever you spell it, the comic...] follows through and runs...dear lord.

....

i have no clue where this is going... euh...

i think you should have to pass a test. like a drivers test, because they don't allow you to drive without a pass on that test, why not one for voting? - but only for people under 18, pass that, you can vote without the test...

or something.

Dirty.LittleRockstar:

^
I agree. Besides they're too wrapped up in the lives of celebrities to notice what's actually going on in politics. Most of them are "rebels" and "anarchists" anyway (thank you wannabe political pop-punk bands). There are those who are interested - I was at a very young age but even then, they don't know what's going on. As pathetic as this sounds adults are more educated in politics and know that one politician will affect them more than another.

I wouldn't trust a 16 year old to vote, God knows what we'd end up with.

Idk, that seems a little cynical. Quite cynical.
I know a lot of students who, day to day, may appear insipid or moronic or immature, but if you had a personal conversation with them, you'd be surprised. Adults aren't mature all the time. But if it's time to vote for your country's leader, anyone who votes is going to take it seriously.
Well not anyone as in everyone, I mean people from all age groups. I don't think they should be forced to vote [in Australia it's compulsory voting] but I think they should have the choice. I want a say in Government. I want a say in my University fees, in the P-plate laws, in smoking legislation, schooling; how young people will be treated by the medical system, and in the work force.
Not that it's all about us - obviously we only represent a small fraction of the community. But we're mature enough to vote not just in our interests but the interests of the community, and the country.
My brother was accepted into the Australian army, trained, and sent around the country [although never 'shipped out'], before he was allowed to vote.
I mean, priorities? :|

I think we should also consider the fact that young people are more influentiable than older people. I mean if let's say X politician would throw this huge party, invite all sorts of celebs and give away iPods, or other things like that, he could influence young people to vote for him. So X guy becomes president.

Maybe that's what everyone took into consideration when they made a law to allow only people over 18/21 to vote. Young people can be influenced, they can act really stupid sometimes, and voting is a matter of personal choice.

But I'm not saying that young people shouldn't have a saying in what happens in their country. There are plenty of student unions, non-profit organizations, and stuff like that, that you can join and really have a saying in what happens around you. If you are interested in that of course.

In Canada, voting isn't mandatory. But we have a saying - if you don't vote don't give your opinion on politics. And here usually by the time you're in university you're 18 (unless you have a late birthday). There's just no way I would trust a 16 year old, especially of today's generation they're all immature. Here you aren't allowed to enlist in the army until you're 18 and able to vote anyway.
I find it silly that in Canada, you're allowed to gamble and vote before you're allowed to drink and buy smokes >_>. But voting is similar to gambling, you never know what you're going to get =\

Dirty.LittleRockstar:

no way I would trust a 16 year old, especially of today's generation they're all immature.

Untrue disparaging generalisation.

Lovesick.:

I think we should also consider the fact that young people are more influentiable than older people. I mean if let's say X politician would throw this huge party, invite all sorts of celebs and give away iPods, or other things like that, he could influence young people to vote for him. So X guy becomes president.

Maybe that's what everyone took into consideration when they made a law to allow only people over 18/21 to vote. Young people can be influenced, they can act really stupid sometimes, and voting is a matter of personal choice.

But I'm not saying that young people shouldn't have a saying in what happens in their country. There are plenty of student unions, non-profit organizations, and stuff like that, that you can join and really have a saying in what happens around you. If you are interested in that of course.

I don't think there are enough 16/17 yr olds to elect someone in just on their vote ... o.o
However (I'm not sure how other systems work) in Australia we can make up the Senate seats with a number of parties. While the government is made of the party with the majority, and there will be the 'other' (as it's a two party preferred system), there are "always" (generalising here guys) a number of seats taken by minority parties; for example, the main two are Liberal and Labor, and the minorities that get in could include some Independants, Greens, Christian party I don't recall the name of, etc.
So I don't think one person "influencing" teenagers would win the election, but it could get parties that consider the interests of youth into a situation to have their say in Parliament and have some power.

Just because you act mature doesn't mean you are =\
they aren't educated in politics, they don't watch the news. They care more about a fictional story than real life, they care more about their favourite band than real life, they care more about clothes than real life, they care more about labels than real life, they care more about sports - than politics.
Everytime I look, even just on here, when the government does or says something that insults one of their favourite bands they go all teenie. I'm sorry, I don't trust kids with important decisions when they can't even handle someone disagreeing with them.
When I can hear one 16 year old say "so and so politician promises to lower tuition funds as well as increase health care benefits, however the NDP promise more jobs in the north, which in turn would benefit our community" and actually understand politics rather than pretending, I'll change my opinion on 16 year olds being immature.

it's also not a generalisation when it's the truth. =\
You're in grade 10 when you're 16, you're barely educated. I don't mean immature as in "lyke omg wow!" I mean immature as in undereducated and still learning.

Prince Charming:

I don't think there are enough 16/17 yr olds to elect someone in just on their vote ... o.o

Every vote counts. A politician back home lost by 9 votes because 9 people didn't vote in my town.

Dirty.LittleRockstar:

Just because you act mature doesn't mean you are =\
they aren't educated in politics, they don't watch the news. They care more about a fictional story than real life, they care more about their favourite band than real life, they care more about clothes than real life, they care more about labels than real life, they care more about sports - than politics.
Everytime I look, even just on here, when the government does or says something that insults one of their favourite bands they go all teenie. I'm sorry, I don't trust kids with important decisions when they can't even handle someone disagreeing with them.
When I can hear one 16 year old say "so and so politician promises to lower tuition funds as well as increase health care benefits, however the NDP promise more jobs in the north, which in turn would benefit our community" and actually understand politics rather than pretending, I'll change my opinion on 16 year olds being immature.

it's also not a generalisation when it's the truth. =\
You're in grade 10 when you're 16, you're barely educated. I don't mean immature as in "lyke omg wow!" I mean immature as in undereducated and still learning.

I'm finishing Year 11 actually, and only 15. In a few months I'll be finished with that, and re-enrolled at my school in my final year. I study the hardest S&E subject they offer (S&E stands for "Society and the Environment, btw), which is top-level Political and Legal Studies.
An act? Who's acting? What's the difference between how you act and how you are? If you ACT mature when you vote then is that vote immature - even if you voted for "the right person"?
As I mentioned, I'm more educated in politics than many adults I know. They get glazed expressions on their faces when I try to discuss it with them.
People here are forced to vote - including the illiterate and those living in areas without radio or television. And you think these people will make a better choice for the country's future than I, or my friends, could?
Real life? Real life is books and music and clothes and sport. Not all of it, there's family, there's careers, and yeah, 16 year olds may not have much experience on the director's end of those things, but how does caring about these things make them immature?
I will defend something I care about. Again - I don't think that's my age, I think that's being a human being.
Immature, I'm sorry, has some really negative connotations these days. Connotation being the meaning that society of the time gives it. And while, yeah, maturity can be argued the way you have, I still wouldn't call myself or many others I know "immature".
Everyone, everywhere, of every age, is still learning.
Just because we're young doesn't mean we're "undereducated". We're getting a better education now than people were getting 35 years ago. So the fifty year olds voting have the education they've gotten in life, but we've gotten a much better head start.

So what - at 18 you gain some sudden rush of insight and education about the world, which you can't have at 16?
Please. :roll:

Dirty.LittleRockstar:

Prince Charming:

I don't think there are enough 16/17 yr olds to elect someone in just on their vote ... o.o

Every vote counts. A politician back home lost by 9 votes because 9 people didn't vote in my town.

I meant that if all the politician had going for him/her was parties and free iPods for teenagers, the bare fact that 16 year olds make up such a small percentage of the population would practically ensure their loss.

However if they had enough support without the youngest voters to get so close that their votes won them the election, then I'd assume they had decent policies.

Maybe it's your country that should change it's policies. Nobody is supposed to be forced to vote in a democracy. Also, if we let 16 year olds vote here, who know who'd win? The Green Party. Why? Because the first thing on their agenda is to legalize marijuana. I'm not saying at 18 you're mature. But you have more education at 18 than you do at 16. Good for you knowing stuff about politics, at least you're interested. Just so you know, I know what connotation means so you can stop acting superior to me and giving me definitions. I gave a definition of immature because I knew everyone would assume I meant acting like children when I meant they don't have as much education. Yes, at 18 I do believe you have more education and understanding of politics. That is when you're legally an adult and high school problems don't affect you anymore, you're in the real world. Young teenagers are easily influenced. I can guarantee that if someone said MCR in their speech, all the 16 year olds on here would vote for them and if it was negative, they wouldn't. If they said that school would be shortened - they'd win because that's how 16 year olds think.

Obviously we don't agree on this issue and I will not change my opinion on 16 year olds being mature or not. I never said adults were mature either. I know plenty of 25-30 year olds that still act like they're in high school.

Also, just because someone wins amongst the youngest voters doesn't mean they had decent policies. I can name several politicians that won who didn't deserve to.

Dirty.LittleRockstar:

Maybe it's your country that should change it's policies. Nobody is supposed to be forced to vote in a democracy. Also, if we let 16 year olds vote here, who know who'd win? The Green Party. Why? Because the first thing on their agenda is to legalize marijuana. I'm not saying at 18 you're mature. But you have more education at 18 than you do at 16. Good for you knowing stuff about politics, at least you're interested. Just so you know, I know what connotation means so you can stop acting superior to me and giving me definitions. I gave a definition of immature because I knew everyone would assume I meant acting like children when I meant they don't have as much education. Yes, at 18 I do believe you have more education and understanding of politics. That is when you're legally an adult and high school problems don't affect you anymore, you're in the real world. Young teenagers are easily influenced. I can guarantee that if someone said MCR in their speech, all the 16 year olds on here would vote for them and if it was negative, they wouldn't. If they said that school would be shortened - they'd win because that's how 16 year olds think.

Obviously we don't agree on this issue and I will not change my opinion on 16 year olds being mature or not. I never said adults were mature either. I know plenty of 25-30 year olds that still act like they're in high school.

Also, just because someone wins amongst the youngest voters doesn't mean they had decent policies. I can name several politicians that won who didn't deserve to.

Compulsory voting is undemocratic - yeah, I've heard it before. We've had to research it and argue for or against. I think the idea, though, was that as a citizen of the country we have the right to the democracy so a responsibility to take part in it.
I've already expressed my view about this idea that the party that the 16 year olds support will somehow win the election despite that apparently 16 year olds vote for terrible, immature choices -eye roll-
Over here, that's a rumour too. The leading parties spread stories about all the things the Greens want to legalise. But in fact they don't intend to legalise any at all. They don't support legalising illicit drugs. I support the Greens, basically, because they are the only left-libertarian party in Australia - the only libertarian party at all besides the Democrats. All the remainder are right-authoritarian. The Greens are the best representative in government for me.
And you have to remember that we have different parties (like, speaking - um, name-ly). I think our Liberals are similar, and your Republican is our Labor. So if your Greens is some radicalist group ... well, yeah. Different.
However I have to say, if the Greens said they were going to legalise all the illegal drugs, I would probably vote for someone else. I'm 15. I'm not even 16, and I, shock/gasp, don't believe in drug legalisation. I'd actually think more 18 / 19 / 20 year olds would vote for the Greens for drug legalisation; college students. They have the right to vote, and are in circumstances where it seems like a great idea to have legalisation of drugs.
I didn't try to act superior to you, (I just define if I think my definition includes something potentially non-conventional; to cover my ass from people thinking something different) sorry if I came off that way. I'm not now, either. Maybe I've thrown in some sarcasm or had some underlying tones of condescension, but really I just want to come off as somewhere near equal. Because itkind of honestly annoys me how you're, what, 18?, and think you're automatically superior to people a couple of years younger.
As I said, we're getting better educations. We are maturing faster. There isn't, in any case, a defining moment of clarity about politics.

And again, argh. Do you even realise how frustrating those statements are?
"I can guarantee" - No, actually! You can't guarantee, you're guessing, based on this idea that we're all immature - but more than immature; bringing "liking a band" into it - obsessive? Or was that just to point out our failure in prioritising?
I don't know many 16 year olds who would "risk" the outcome of a State / Federal election by casting their vote based on mentioning a band.
And school? I think it should be two to three hours longer each day. There definitely isn't enough time to get through what we could be; to use the resources the teachers provide (themselves being the primary, but then secondary sources).
"That is how 16-year olds think".
No, they don't all think that way. Sure, when they're at school, working, they may prefer to leave early; but isn't the aim of most people's careers - to get the job where they are paid the highest for the least amount of hours / effort put in?

I guess we don't agree. And it's because we have different values and principles, that your arguments seem weak to me; as I suppose mine must seem to you.
But another question, if you don't want 16 year olds voting because they are not mature, and yet you know immature 25-30 year olds, do you think they should also be excluded from being able to vote?

And at the last part, you didn't need to put "youngest voters" if you weren't talking about them, unless you were, but that hasn't happened if you meant the age we've been discussing, unless you meant older, where you've said they are mature enough to vote .. whatever, anyway, I concede your point that it is not always good policies that sway an election. That's just, generally, one of the major factors.

Prince Charming:

And school? I think it should be two to three hours longer each day. There definitely isn't enough time to get through what we could be; to use the resources the teachers provide (themselves being the primary, but then secondary sources).

If that's you suggestion we should go to school for an additional 3 hours of brain washing or totally un-useful information to memorize, I'll be mad. But if it's you suggesting we should talk more about politics in class, then I totally agree.

That's just an other reason why I don't think 16 year olds should vote. I mean I would love to vote, obviously you would too. But not everyone is interested in politics. My ex-literature teacher used to tell me ''we don't do politics in school'', actually almost all teachers tell you that. No one dares to talk about it. Then you see those boring old guys talking on tv big words that you don't understand. So you come to the conclusion politics ain't cool.

So I am not thinking about the 2 of us, or other smart motivated teens, but the general mass of teenagers today who don't really give a crap about it. If 16 year olds would be allowed to vote, more politics should be done in school. Politics and history.

And how would young people vote ? Here to vote you need an ID and you need to be put on a special list and there's just so much paperwork to it. Only a small number of teens would probably vote so it would be though to convince people to go through all that trouble.

I still think teens should get involved in politics and I would love to vote, I just dunno if it would be the best solution if you consider all the facts.

Lovesick.:

Prince Charming:

And school? I think it should be two to three hours longer each day. There definitely isn't enough time to get through what we could be; to use the resources the teachers provide (themselves being the primary, but then secondary sources).

If that's you suggestion we should go to school for an additional 3 hours of brain washing or totally un-useful information to memorize, I'll be mad. But if it's you suggesting we should talk more about politics in class, then I totally agree.

That's just an other reason why I don't think 16 year olds should vote. I mean I would love to vote, obviously you would too. But not everyone is interested in politics. My ex-literature teacher used to tell me ''we don't do politics in school'', actually almost all teachers tell you that. No one dares to talk about it. Then you see those boring old guys talking on tv big words that you don't understand. So you come to the conclusion politics ain't cool.

So I am not thinking about the 2 of us, or other smart motivated teens, but the general mass of teenagers today who don't really give a crap about it. If 16 year olds would be allowed to vote, more politics should be done in school. Politics and history.

And how would young people vote ? Here to vote you need an ID and you need to be put on a special list and there's just so much paperwork to it. Only a small number of teens would probably vote so it would be though to convince people to go through all that trouble.

I still think teens should get involved in politics and I would love to vote, I just dunno if it would be the best solution if you consider all the facts.

I think all, or most, school is very useful. But of course I have preferences for what I'd like extended study on; there's only so much time I can spend studying maths and biology, for example. But history, politics, and literature, those classes where you engage, discuss, learn, share, those rush past. I'd love to double my classes of those.

I would obviously love to vote? Not really. I put my faith in the country, which, with it's 20% conservative Christian backbone, amongst other things, doesn't always agree with me, or support my interests. For example I don't see the country, as it is, legalising gay marriage / adoption in a hurry, which ... hurts ...
But, I can wait to vote. I just thought hypothetically we deserved the right to have the oppurtunity to vote.

Our school has the largest number of Politics students in the State. We have a teacher who specialises in it, and 2-3 classes running in each year group that studies it [Most subjects, excluding the average level English / Maths, have 1-2 classes]. Considering the high levels required to get into it, that's .. well, impressive. But my point is that it's a really easy topic to get onto at our school. And I agree that there should be more politics and history taught in schools.

About the "general mass of teenagers today"; I think if people gave them some more credit, if our attitude towards teenagers changed, they'd change too. Give them responsibility, tell them they're mature, and they'll be responsible and mature. Tell them they're all immature and don't care, and why should they? If no-one ever expected anything of you, you wouldn't have very high standards for yourself.

Here to vote you just have to register with the Electoral Commission of Australia. They put your name on a very long list, of voters, and when you go to vote they tick your name off a copy of the list. They could easily do a separate list for under 18s [who I would have non-compulsory voting for].

About the 'facts', I don't recall ever being presented with any. Just stereotypes and close minds.

Omg you are lucky. Your school is really cool then. I hate school because I learn about isomers(sp?). And I really don't care about isomers. Or really advanced math. Why ? Because I can't really see how that could help me in life. Nor how my teachers yell at me and call me stupid, while they are obviously dumb.

Today I had entrepreneurial education, it sounds fun but it's actually not we only sit and write and write and write and write, and our teacher -I'm not going to comment on his IQ level- told us something along the lines of ''don't believe what's in the book, or what everyone tells you, just listen to me because I'm right''. *dies* How can someone tell you something like that ? And that's how most of our classes work, except for literature or English where we talk. Or maybe psychology sometimes.

So the general point except for ranting about my school, is that most teens go to schools like that. Or maybe I'm just imagining, and everywhere schools are cool like yours.

Maybe in Australia things are different, I don't know how everything is there. That's why I don't think we should talk about this like it is a general thing. Maybe in some countries teens should vote, and in other they shouldn't.

It's mibba, and it's a topic debate, of course everyone's just sharing their opinions. No one ever does something about it.

Prince Charming:

Compulsory voting is undemocratic - yeah, I've heard it before. We've had to research it and argue for or against. I think the idea, though, was that as a citizen of the country we have the right to the democracy so a responsibility to take part in it.
I've already expressed my view about this idea that the party that the 16 year olds support will somehow win the election despite that apparently 16 year olds vote for terrible, immature choices -eye roll-
Over here, that's a rumour too. The leading parties spread stories about all the things the Greens want to legalise. But in fact they don't intend to legalise any at all. They don't support legalising illicit drugs. I support the Greens, basically, because they are the only left-libertarian party in Australia - the only libertarian party at all besides the Democrats. All the remainder are right-authoritarian. The Greens are the best representative in government for me.
And you have to remember that we have different parties (like, speaking - um, name-ly). I think our Liberals are similar, and your Republican is our Labor. So if your Greens is some radicalist group ... well, yeah. Different.
However I have to say, if the Greens said they were going to legalise all the illegal drugs, I would probably vote for someone else. I'm 15. I'm not even 16, and I, shock/gasp, don't believe in drug legalisation. I'd actually think more 18 / 19 / 20 year olds would vote for the Greens for drug legalisation; college students. They have the right to vote, and are in circumstances where it seems like a great idea to have legalisation of drugs.
I didn't try to act superior to you, (I just define if I think my definition includes something potentially non-conventional; to cover my ass from people thinking something different) sorry if I came off that way. I'm not now, either. Maybe I've thrown in some sarcasm or had some underlying tones of condescension, but really I just want to come off as somewhere near equal. Because itkind of honestly annoys me how you're, what, 18?, and think you're automatically superior to people a couple of years younger.
As I said, we're getting better educations. We are maturing faster. There isn't, in any case, a defining moment of clarity about politics.

And again, argh. Do you even realise how frustrating those statements are?
"I can guarantee" - No, actually! You can't guarantee, you're guessing, based on this idea that we're all immature - but more than immature; bringing "liking a band" into it - obsessive? Or was that just to point out our failure in prioritising?
I don't know many 16 year olds who would "risk" the outcome of a State / Federal election by casting their vote based on mentioning a band.
And school? I think it should be two to three hours longer each day. There definitely isn't enough time to get through what we could be; to use the resources the teachers provide (themselves being the primary, but then secondary sources).
"That is how 16-year olds think".
No, they don't all think that way. Sure, when they're at school, working, they may prefer to leave early; but isn't the aim of most people's careers - to get the job where they are paid the highest for the least amount of hours / effort put in?

I guess we don't agree. And it's because we have different values and principles, that your arguments seem weak to me; as I suppose mine must seem to you.
But another question, if you don't want 16 year olds voting because they are not mature, and yet you know immature 25-30 year olds, do you think they should also be excluded from being able to vote?

And at the last part, you didn't need to put "youngest voters" if you weren't talking about them, unless you were, but that hasn't happened if you meant the age we've been discussing, unless you meant older, where you've said they are mature enough to vote .. whatever, anyway, I concede your point that it is not always good policies that sway an election. That's just, generally, one of the major factors.

The Green Party's logo here is a pot leaf and have been on television, radio, and newspapers announcing that's what they will do. I know more 14-16 year olds who do pot than college students. The ones who do smoke it voted Liberal. I'm mostly talking about the 16 year olds that live here. I know exactly what they like because I dealt with them for too long and they make me want to bash my head in. Sometimes, I think some of them are borderline retarded. Trust me, if you knew them you'd feel the same way I do. Perhaps the 16 year olds in Australia are more mature than the ones here. Because judging by you, they seem like it. The 25-30 year olds I do know who are immature don't vote because they don't care.
I am 18 and I wasn't trying to act superior. I also prefer working longer hours, you have no idea how I annoyed I'd was working 3 hour shifts during the school year. I worked 14 days in a row once getting paid the least amount because I felt like it. My goal in life isn't to get the highest paid job, if it was I would have went into math/science and become a doctor. Instead, I'm going into journalism. I agree with you, school needs to be longer but I guess that's life. You're given the material and expected to know it. On a job, you're given the instructions and expected to know it. Crappy cycle.
I'll clarify my statement. I wouldn't trust the 16 year olds that live here with something as important as deciding who the next Prime Minister should be. At least not the ones from my hometown. I have yet to meet one that can have an actual conversation other than who they banged on the weekend =\

I think that it's too young an age to start voting. They wouldn't be able to comprehend what the politics are and how to pick which party they would want to be in. I just registered as a Democrat because I understand what their beliefs are. 16 years old don't really have any beliefs in how our country should be run. That's what I think about it.