Voting Age

Dalek Christmas:

druscilla; overdose.:

Timerous Beastie.:

And even so, if 31% felt there was a need to vote, shouldn't they be given a chance?

Yes. And they will have the chance when they are 18.

By the time they are eighteen, it could be too late.

I live in a country where majority rules.
31% is not a majority. Therefore, no, they should not be given the right to vote.

Dalek Christmas:

druscilla; overdose.:

Timerous Beastie.:

And even so, if 31% felt there was a need to vote, shouldn't they be given a chance?

Yes. And they will have the chance when they are 18.

By the time they are eighteen, it could be too late.

BBC news did the report.

And by the last quote, why not just make it so everyone can vote, since it could be too late?

druscilla; overdose.:

Dalek Christmas:

druscilla; overdose.:

Timerous Beastie.:

And even so, if 31% felt there was a need to vote, shouldn't they be given a chance?

Yes. And they will have the chance when they are 18.

By the time they are eighteen, it could be too late.

I live in a country where majority rules.
31% is not a majority. Therefore, no, they should not be given the right to vote.

I could go into technicalities but I am very sure you are fully aware of them.

Quote

The youth voter turnout rate was highest in Minnesota (43 percent), Wisconsin (40 percent), and Montana (49 percent). The states with the lowest turnout were West Virginia (16 percent), Texas and Utah (tied at 17 percent).

That is current what is happening. By all means, this would mean, under the same logic, that everyone under 30 shouldn't vote as less than a majority actually vote.

Martian:

BBC news did the report.

And by the last quote, why not just make it so everyone can vote, since it could be too late?

Well, we are all very certain that the BBc get their facts one hundred and ten percent correct all the time and they are infallible as a resource. :mrgreen:

The following restrictions are there for a just reason.

Criminals aren't allowed to vote whilst in prison as it's part of their punishment.

Insane people aren't allowed to vote because of the limited proof that their vote has not been rigged by an outside party.

The only reason why younger members of the public are not allowed to vote is that most adults think that the youth are too ignorant and thick to vote, that they wouldn't vote and if they did it would spark the start of the downward spiral.

Okay, that last part I only added for dramatic effect and...well...I like that sentence.

It's just another form of ageism.

Dalek Christmas:

It's just another form of ageism.

No, it's not. They're not discriminating. They are stating the truth. A 16-year-old is not an adult and shouldn't have adult rights.

druscilla; overdose.:

Dalek Christmas:

It's just another form of ageism.

No, it's not. They're not discriminating. They are stating the truth. A 16-year-old is not an adult and shouldn't have adult rights.

Ageism1. discrimination against persons of a certain age group.
2. a tendency to regard older persons as debilitated, unworthy of attention, or unsuitable for employment.

If you're going to use ageism as part of a debate, I'll restate what I said last time.
If 16 year olds should be allowed to vote because some feel the need to, why can't everyone vote according to your opinion? Why is it 16, not 15, 14,13, 12,11 etc?

Oops >.<

Dalek Christmas:

The only reason why younger members of the public are not allowed to vote is that most adults think that the youth are too ignorant and thick to vote, that they wouldn't vote and if they did it would spark the start of the downward spiral.

It's interesting how you've talked to most adults and can speak for all of them in vague statements that aren't backed up with any surveys or statistics to show that what you're saying has any standing at all.

I, personally, don't think that the age should be lowered, but here is an interesting point I'd like to bring up. The voting age was lowered in 1971 (72 maybe) because teenagers were able to enlist in the military, but they couldn't vote. If they were able to fight for their country, they had the right to have a say in how it's governed.

Now, 16 year olds can hold jobs, and chances are their income is taxed unless they're employeed by a family member or they do a domestic service like babysitting (which Im sure accounts for a fairly large portion of teenage jobs). If their money funds the government, should they have the right to have a say in it?

^
They aren't forced to work.
The way I see it along with a few others, a 16 year old's job is to go to school and get an education. It's their choice to work. If they don't want to fund the government, don't work...

>.>

I, personally, believe that it isn't fair to those of us who do care about what's going on. For example, I live in a town where nearly everyone is an old coot and would believe anything. Why is it fair for them to have the title "adult," when they are extremely ignorant and immature? I don't think that you are truly an adult until you are truly mature. Mature has many definitions. It can mean emotionally, physcally, or mentally. Who is to judge whether someone else is not mature enough, when no one but the apparent "adults" have been given a chance?

I personally don't think 16 year olds should have the right to vote.

When you're 18, you are leaving your teen years and you are possibly more aware of politics etc. I'm not stereotyping here, but 16 year olds may not be sure of what's going on.

Plus, only 31% say they want to..I think most 16 year olds have more things on there mind rather than who to vote for.

If 69% say that they don't want to, then they don't have to.
But for the rest of us that do care, then why shouldn't we?

Martian:

^
They aren't forced to work.
The way I see it along with a few others, a 16 year old's job is to go to school and get an education. It's their choice to work. If they don't want to fund the government, don't work...

>.>

Well, by that logic, no one is forced to work, and when you're 16 you no longer have to go school, so it technically isn't their job either.

Im glad you mentioned education though, because thats a good point to acknowledge. You can go to free public school when you're 16, a government funded operation. Teenagers actually recieve all kinds of funding from the government when you think about, which was my reasoning behind why they still shouldn't be able to vote even if their income is taxed. They take out alot more than they put in at that point in their lives.

jaz; Yitic the DJ:

If 69% say that they don't want to, then they don't have to.
But for the rest of us that do care, then why shouldn't we?

Majority rules?
That's democracy for you.
That's like saying, well "69% of the country voted for Bush, but 31% voted for Kerry, maybe we should give Kerry a chance, because well, 31% care about what he said too."

It doesn't work that way. I used the same percentages because I'm too lazy to go look for actual numbers.

Kurtni:

Martian:

^
They aren't forced to work.
The way I see it along with a few others, a 16 year old's job is to go to school and get an education. It's their choice to work. If they don't want to fund the government, don't work...

>.>

Well, by that logic, no one is forced to work, and when you're 16 you no longer have to go school, so it technically isn't their job either.

Im glad you mentioned education though, because thats a good point to acknowledge. You can go to free public school when you're 16, a government funded operation. Teenagers actually recieve all kinds of funding from the government when you think about, which was my reasoning behind why they still shouldn't be able to vote even if their income is taxed. They take out alot more than they put in at that point in their lives.

The government in both the U.S and Canada (I believe, I know Canada is) are trying to raise the drop out age to 18. Plus, the government pretty much screws over any 16 year old that drops out of high school anyway. You can't get a decent, well paying job without a high school diploma :D

And you kinda are...forced to work. Unless you're rich or want to be homeless, clotheless, hungry..or well put in prison for not paying your taxes :shifty

Martian:

jaz; Yitic the DJ:

If 69% say that they don't want to, then they don't have to.
But for the rest of us that do care, then why shouldn't we?

Majority rules?
That's democracy for you.
That's like saying, well "69% of the country voted for Bush, but 31% voted for Kerry, maybe we should give Kerry a chance, because well, 31% care about what he said too."

It doesn't work that way. I used the same percentages because I'm too lazy to go look for actual numbers.

Actually, I think that those are two completely different ideas. We can't have two presidents, obviously. What wrong could happen from 16-year-olds, who do care, voting?

I don't think 16 year olds should vote because legally they aren't responsible for themselves yet and therefore parents would have a lot of say in that. Plus MOST 16 year olds aren't very politically involved so they wouldn't know much about what they were voting for. I'm not saying all but from my experiences most don't. A lot of my 16 year old friends' stance on politics is simply "FUCK BUSH" without reasoning behind it. And if we wanted to get technical here, 16 year olds' brains aren't as fully developed and near that of an adult as 18 year olds so psychologically politics is a little out of the range. They have a harder time grasping reason and are way more impulsive than 18 year olds (though 18 year olds are still impulsive) so they might make a descision they regret when they step out of the voting booth. Also at 16 your focus is not on the world and the government but in the world directly around you: your friends, family, self, school etc.
That's what I have to say about that.

There are also many adults who are impulsive. I think teenagers are generally misunderstood. Just because a lot of teens are impulsive, it seems to rule out the fact that adults, too, can be impulsive. And although the brain isn't completely developed, it doesn't mean you aren't intelligent. I'm sure a sixteen-year-old should be able to grasp the idea of things that go on around them. Teens have to live in this world, too, and discluding them from picking who changes their living environment and represents all civilians, seems a bit... unfair.

jaz; save me.:

Martian:

jaz; Yitic the DJ:

If 69% say that they don't want to, then they don't have to.
But for the rest of us that do care, then why shouldn't we?

Majority rules?
That's democracy for you.
That's like saying, well "69% of the country voted for Bush, but 31% voted for Kerry, maybe we should give Kerry a chance, because well, 31% care about what he said too."

It doesn't work that way. I used the same percentages because I'm too lazy to go look for actual numbers.

Actually, I think that those are two completely different ideas. We can't have two presidents, obviously. What wrong could happen from 16-year-olds, who do care, voting?

They actually aren't different ideas.
It's called majority rules
You don't vote on one thing and give the losing party a chance just because they got a few votes. Otherwise voting would be pointless.
They don't have the majority, therefore, they can't vote.

It also wouldn't be just 16 year olds voting. You'd have 16, who don't care, who are just voting because their favourite rock band says "eff bush!" or because their parents told them to, or their friends are voting, or their teachers tell them too. Yes, some adults do vote for someone just because that's who they vote for. I voted Liberal, just because that's what I was brought up with, but I also approve what they stand for. Yes, there are some adults that don't care about politics, but the ones that I've talked to, don't vote.

Besides, it's not like it would kill someone to wait two years to vote. "What if it's too late", it could be too late when they're 15. The world won't end because 16 year olds can't vote. They can't join the army, they can't gamble, they can't drink, they can't smoke (legally), so why should they be allowed to vote? They aren't adults, therefore, they shouldn't have the rights of an adult.