Voting Age

Absolutely not!

You need to be at a certain level of maturity before you can vote!!!!!

Martian:

jaz; save me.:

Martian:

jaz; Yitic the DJ:

If 69% say that they don't want to, then they don't have to.
But for the rest of us that do care, then why shouldn't we?

Majority rules?
That's democracy for you.
That's like saying, well "69% of the country voted for Bush, but 31% voted for Kerry, maybe we should give Kerry a chance, because well, 31% care about what he said too."

It doesn't work that way. I used the same percentages because I'm too lazy to go look for actual numbers.

Actually, I think that those are two completely different ideas. We can't have two presidents, obviously. What wrong could happen from 16-year-olds, who do care, voting?

They actually aren't different ideas.
It's called majority rules
You don't vote on one thing and give the losing party a chance just because they got a few votes. Otherwise voting would be pointless.
They don't have the majority, therefore, they can't vote.

It also wouldn't be just 16 year olds voting. You'd have 16, who don't care, who are just voting because their favourite rock band says "eff bush!" or because their parents told them to, or their friends are voting, or their teachers tell them too. Yes, some adults do vote for someone just because that's who they vote for. I voted Liberal, just because that's what I was brought up with, but I also approve what they stand for. Yes, there are some adults that don't care about politics, but the ones that I've talked to, don't vote.

Besides, it's not like it would kill someone to wait two years to vote. "What if it's too late", it could be too late when they're 15. The world won't end because 16 year olds can't vote. They can't join the army, they can't gamble, they can't drink, they can't smoke (legally), so why should they be allowed to vote? They aren't adults, therefore, they shouldn't have the rights of an adult.

Could you clear something up for me? I'm just a little confused.
Who are the minority and majority in this situation?

jaz; save me.:

Martian:

jaz; save me.:

Martian:

jaz; Yitic the DJ:

If 69% say that they don't want to, then they don't have to.
But for the rest of us that do care, then why shouldn't we?

Majority rules?
That's democracy for you.
That's like saying, well "69% of the country voted for Bush, but 31% voted for Kerry, maybe we should give Kerry a chance, because well, 31% care about what he said too."

It doesn't work that way. I used the same percentages because I'm too lazy to go look for actual numbers.

Actually, I think that those are two completely different ideas. We can't have two presidents, obviously. What wrong could happen from 16-year-olds, who do care, voting?

They actually aren't different ideas.
It's called majority rules
You don't vote on one thing and give the losing party a chance just because they got a few votes. Otherwise voting would be pointless.
They don't have the majority, therefore, they can't vote.

It also wouldn't be just 16 year olds voting. You'd have 16, who don't care, who are just voting because their favourite rock band says "eff bush!" or because their parents told them to, or their friends are voting, or their teachers tell them too. Yes, some adults do vote for someone just because that's who they vote for. I voted Liberal, just because that's what I was brought up with, but I also approve what they stand for. Yes, there are some adults that don't care about politics, but the ones that I've talked to, don't vote.

Besides, it's not like it would kill someone to wait two years to vote. "What if it's too late", it could be too late when they're 15. The world won't end because 16 year olds can't vote. They can't join the army, they can't gamble, they can't drink, they can't smoke (legally), so why should they be allowed to vote? They aren't adults, therefore, they shouldn't have the rights of an adult.

Could you clear something up for me? I'm just a little confused.
Who are the minority and majority in this situation?

69% said they didn't want to vote
31% said they did...

Didn't I say that already >.>

Self-Inflicted Coma:

Absolutely not!

You need to be at a certain level of maturity before you can vote!!!!!

But there isn't really a way to lable people as "mature" and "immature" is there? Age certainly isn't a fool-proof method. Unfortunetly, there is no way to measure maturity.

Martian:

69% said they didn't want to vote
31% said they did...

Didn't I say that already >.>

Yes, but I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by "majority" and "minority."

My point is just that not every adult is mature.
Not every teen is either.
Not every adult wants to vote.

"Why don't we vote? Only 54 percent of eligible voters cast their ballots during the last four decades of presidential elections. Compare that embarrassing number to Italy's 90 percent, Germany's 80 percent, France and Canada's 76 percent, Britain's 75 percent and Japan's 71 percent. We rank 35th in voter turnout out of the world's prominent democracies."

But I don't see the harm in letting teens vote. Although some teens are easily influenced, that doesn't mean that the other opinions, that have a foundation shouldn't matter. Adults can be very influenced as well.

I found the quote on the interweb. If you want to look at the site, just ask.

That is why I'm glad to live in Canada =)

I don't know what every 16 year old is like in the world, but the ones that I do know, that live in my town, I wouldn't trust them to vote for mayor let alone a Prime Minister. They can barely handle a school election. Perhaps it's wrong to judge everything on them but when all you hear is "when I'm 18, I'm voting for the Green Party, because they want to legalize pot!" or "well, whatever one legalizes dope, I'm in! fuck yeah!" It's pathetic, ignorant and stupid. I'm also aware of the 18 year olds who do the same, just as there's some adults. But I've found, just in my town, that the adults, even at just 18, are a hell of a lot more mature than the kids running around here.

I really don't want to put my future in the hands of the kids who sit in class, snorting crushed rockets like it's coke up there nose and think it's oh so cool and funny. I'm worried about tuition rates, the jobs of my area, something these kids just don't get. The last thing any of them are worried about is university and college expenses because hell, they'll be lucky to pass grade 9 gym class. They don't care about their parents jobs or anything. They care about themselves, drugs, and music. Why should I want them to have the right to vote when they base student elections on who they're friends with or who promises to host the most dances?

I'm not saying it's all 16 year olds, I'm saying it's the ones I've met and had to live with.

I can understand that completely. =]
My town is the same way, but like you said,
the majority of them won't vote.
They'll be too doped up to do anything. :file:

jaz; save me.:

But I don't see the harm in letting teens vote

Statistically speaking, 16 year olds have the highest car crash rate of any age group. More than half (56 percent) of young drivers use cell phones while driving, 69 percent said that they speed to keep up with traffic
64 percent said they speed to go through a yellow light. 47 percent said that passengers sometimes distract them. Statistically speaking, most of them can't even be responsible enough to drive safely, but you think they're responsible enough to decide who gets to run our country?

In my opinion, no, they aren't. I turn 16 in March, and I think it would be awesome to vote, I'd take total advantage of it, however not until Im 18. As much as I'd like to vote, Im also mature enough to know that I'm only 16, I don't know everything, and I don't take the responsibility to make a fully informed political descision. And the majority of teenagers won't. They'll vote for Obama because they saw that video on youtube or Hilary just because she's a girl, and this is assuming they would vote at all. Not even 50% of people age 18-24 voted in the last presidential election.

And if you allow 16 year olds to vote, where do you draw the line? You said you don't see the harm in letting teens vote. Would it be acceptable for a 13 year old to vote? If not, what makes a 16 year old more capable of voting?

By the way, if you wanted my sources for those statistics..
Click
click

Younger people have different views than older people. This could be helpful,and at least not harmful because it might lead to a better country.

The country is, after all, going to be their's one day...-shrug-

penguin massacre:

Younger people have different views than older people. This could be helpful,and at least not harmful because it might lead to a better country.

The country is, after all, going to be their's one day...-shrug-

Children at the age of 5 have a different view on the world and the country will be their's one day. Should we allow them to vote too?

I think we can talk about statistics and opinions all day and get nowhere. The truth is that 16 year-old really don't care about politics. Let me just give you an example.
Look at the Casey Calvert thread. I find the news article comments a bit more illustrative tho, there are a couple dozens of them. Not to mention all the journals everyone was making about him. Now look at the Benazir Bhutto Killed thread, or look at that news article. If on Mibba, otherwise a community of really intelligent, creative and wonderful teens, cares more about a rockstar's death and that of one of the most important political woman in the world you can understand how everyone else feels about it.
What would 16 year old do with his right to vote ? Nothing, he has no clue on what's happening around him.
You can brag about how young people have different opinions than older people but that's just ageism. Not all old people are close-minded and conservative, some of them are actually supposed to me intelligent. Look at Al Gore, is he 16 ?Most revolutions were lead by older, mature persons, I've never heard of a revolution lead by teens.

I'm sorry I had to use such a morbid example.

jaz; rainbows:

There are also many adults who are impulsive. I think teenagers are generally misunderstood. Just because a lot of teens are impulsive, it seems to rule out the fact that adults, too, can be impulsive. And although the brain isn't completely developed, it doesn't mean you aren't intelligent. I'm sure a sixteen-year-old should be able to grasp the idea of things that go on around them. Teens have to live in this world, too, and discluding them from picking who changes their living environment and represents all civilians, seems a bit... unfair.

brain development has A LOT to do with the human psyche. Yes a lot of teens DO grasp what is going on around them(I do, I'm 15.) but since they still aren't considered adults legally and as a law have guardians or parents, what they decide might not be what they really think and what their parents/guardians told them to do. At age 18 you can serve in the army, are independent and therefore should be the voting age. If you can make the decision to serve in the army you should decide what/who to vote for. Unless you want 16 year olds in the armed forces, they shouldn't be able to vote..

Martian:

penguin massacre:

Younger people have different views than older people. This could be helpful,and at least not harmful because it might lead to a better country.

The country is, after all, going to be their's one day...-shrug-

Children at the age of 5 have a different view on the world and the country will be their's one day. Should we allow them to vote too?

But that's a huge exaggeration. 16 year olds, at least in the UK have many of the rights that adults have. They can leave home, get married, join the army or navy etc.
I understand that you need a certain level of maturity to vote, but if the government didn't think they had that then why would they let them do any of the other things?
Plus I think they should be allowed to vote, simply because if they're allowed to do all these other things then I think they should be given the right to affect how the country is run.
And those who don't give a shit about politics, which I agree there will be many of simply don't have to vote.

Shooting Star:

Martian:

penguin massacre:

Younger people have different views than older people. This could be helpful,and at least not harmful because it might lead to a better country.

The country is, after all, going to be their's one day...-shrug-

Children at the age of 5 have a different view on the world and the country will be their's one day. Should we allow them to vote too?

But that's a huge exaggeration. 16 year olds, at least in the UK have many of the rights that adults have. They can leave home, get married, join the army or navy etc.
I understand that you need a certain level of maturity to vote, but if the government didn't think they had that then why would they let them do any of the other things?
Plus I think they should be allowed to vote, simply because if they're allowed to do all these other things then I think they should be given the right to affect how the country is run.
And those who don't give a shit about politics, which I agree there will be many of simply don't have to vote.

I'm not saying I don't agree with you, but I think it's different in Canada. You can leave home at 16 and some other stuff but you can't really do "adult" things until you're 18+. For example, r rated movies, adult films,gambling, smoking, drinking...voting.
But as I've mentioned, the kids here do my head in, I wouldn't trust them with anything. >.<

I agree, it's a huge exagerration, but think about it, "younger" people can mean anyone, including 5 year olds. If people are going to lower the age, they shouldn't say one age but not another one. It's not fair anyway you look at it. Saying a 5 year old isn't capable is the same as me saying 16 year olds aren't capable. Big age difference but saying "younger people have a different view on life" can relate to any age.

I actually have a pretty good reason why 16 year olds shouldn't vote. Its something to d with rational thinking and stimuli responses and all that. Its in a 2005 issue of Nat Geo, the human brain one. It was either the May or June issue.

Hanyway, in tense and pressured situations, the human brain comes out with an automatic response. Going with the example from the magazine, say you're in a car crash. When another car is coming straight at you, the first thing you want to do is throw your hands up, duck, cover your face, etc. The smart thing to do is try and steer out of the way. A teenage mind is not developed or experienced enough to overcome this instict and hence, the teenager is more likely to end up in a car crash. Voting is pretty different from driving, but its still a pressured situation.

Many teenagers are unlikely to realize the gravity of voting, that one vote actually could affect the results (recount anyone?). Plus, most sixteen year olds have a lot on their minds such as junior year and all the insomnia that comes with it. And you know what? Voting is a right and a privelage. And in a way, its a power. This is kind of just an excuse to quote Spiderman, but its true -- "With great power comes great responsibility". I think that at our age, most of us (including me) are not ready for that kind of responsibility.

18 year olds get to decide who's going to be in charge because they're legally adults. By this time, they can live on their own, pay their own bills, etc. When someone's taking care of you, its kind of hard to get all worked up about taxes and ration cards.

C. L. Lee:

I actually have a pretty good reason why 16 year olds shouldn't vote. Its something to d with rational thinking and stimuli responses and all that. Its in a 2005 issue of Nat Geo, the human brain one. It was either the May or June issue.

Hanyway, in tense and pressured situations, the human brain comes out with an automatic response. Going with the example from the magazine, say you're in a car crash. When another car is coming straight at you, the first thing you want to do is throw your hands up, duck, cover your face, etc. The smart thing to do is try and steer out of the way. A teenage mind is not developed or experienced enough to overcome this instict and hence, the teenager is more likely to end up in a car crash. Voting is pretty different from driving, but its still a pressured situation.

Many teenagers are unlikely to realize the gravity of voting, that one vote actually could affect the results (recount anyone?). Plus, most sixteen year olds have a lot on their minds such as junior year and all the insomnia that comes with it. And you know what? Voting is a right and a privelage. And in a way, its a power. This is kind of just an excuse to quote Spiderman, but its true -- "With great power comes great responsibility". I think that at our age, most of us (including me) are not ready for that kind of responsibility.

18 year olds get to decide who's going to be in charge because they're legally adults. By this time, they can live on their own, pay their own bills, etc. When someone's taking care of you, its kind of hard to get all worked up about taxes and ration cards.

It's like this- age doesn't really indicate one's maturity and/or their knowledge in Politics. So I think let's just say I go with 50-50. I haven't met anyone below 18 years old that actually has something to say about the current issues such as this one, but taking my older brother as an example (he's 22, I think), I'd say some 16-year old Politics-minded girl/boy could totally beat his ass in this field anytime. Anytime, I tell you...

So yeah. That's all. I'm 50-50.

Long.Gone.Sanity:

It's like this- age doesn't really indicate one's maturity and/or their knowledge in Politics. So I think let's just say I go with 50-50. I haven't met anyone below 18 years old that actually has something to say about the current issues such as this one, but taking my older brother as an example (he's 22, I think), I'd say some 16-year old Politics-minded girl/boy could totally beat his ass in this field anytime. Anytime, I tell you...

So yeah. That's all. I'm 50-50.

Well, let's go run this by congress. They can pass a 50-50 law with it. :lol: Politics and government can't work on a "50-50" system, especailly on issues like this.

Nooooooo ... all sixteen-year-olds would do is vote for whoever the heck their parents tell them to vote for. And it's not like they'd really make sophisticated research on the subject.

This 'Heck no!' was brought to you by,

- SomeGirlOnTheNet

- AKA, Liz

Nope.

Most sixteen year olds here where I live are too busy getting drunk or dogging school or vandalising things to notice what's going on in the political world.

We could hold our opinions for two years, surely?