Anorexia.

Ayana Sioux:

You're only proving my point more about the targeted industry.

I don't see how I am "only proving your point more," please explain.

Earlier in the discussion kafka, said that most beauty products and etc. are targeted towards women in their twenties and thirties.

@ Ayana Sioux
But pravda. posted that elderly women are just as likely to get eating disorders.

And kafka. posted that the onset for anorexia is younger than the target demographic for 'beauty products and etc' - you said they gained confidence as they got older, but if that was true, they would grow out of anorexia and become capable of rejecting advertising messages as they reached their 20s and 30s, since they would have towering self-confidence by that point.

And my overall contention was that you seemed to be assuming these white women are somehow weak and powerless in the face of advertising to do anything but get an eating disorder, despite the evidence that it is other factors which seem to engender EDs.

So was your point that, since advertising does seem unrepresentative and potentially harmful (to the 90+ percent who don't look like models), and we can change it, we should be changing it? Because unfortunately even the companies doing that are enormous hypocrites.

@ pravda.
How can I speak for all people? I never said that people will grow out of it, but it explains why most teenagers are more likely to have anorexia. Plus, I said my confidence is higher, and I think that's true for the most part. But that doesn't mean confidence issues don't run later in their lives.

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And my overall contention was that you seemed to be assuming these white women are somehow weak and powerless in the face of advertising to do anything but get an eating disorder, despite the evidence that it is other factors which seem to engender EDs.

I think you're finding it hard to overlook what I said regarding white women. I think with this discussion, you should leave your personal feelings out of it and actually look at it from the angle I'm speaking on. You're taking things out of proportion because if that was what I meant, that would have been what I said. Not only white women have anorexia, but I will admit that from what I've noticed, different cultures tend to deal with their stress differently, plus, like I've said before, I notice that in America, the beauty industries tend to focus more towards white women than any other race.

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So was your point that, since advertising does seem unrepresentative and potentially harmful (to the 90+ percent who don't look like models), and we can change it, we should be changing it? Because unfortunately even the companies doing that are enormous hypocrites.

That is what I'm saying. But if they're hypocritical about it, that has nothing to do with what I'm getting at.

My responses were not about my personal feelings (besides where I personally felt you were not taking into account what I / others have been saying.) I have provided you evidence discussing race within EDs and you continue talking about your perceptions and what you have noticed. I think you should leave those out of it and actually look at evidence available.

But then your information slightly proves what I'm getting at. My first argument was that the media can be a factor in influencing the desire to be thin.

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More recent evidence suggests that the pre-valence of anorexia nervosa among African-Americans is higher than previously thought and is rising. A survey of readers of a popular African-American fashion magazine (Table) found levels of abnormal eating attitudes and body dissatisfaction that were at least as high as a similar survey of Caucasian women, with a significant negative correlation between body dissatisfaction and a strong black identity (Pumariega et al., 1994).

Aren't magazines considered the media? And no where in that article does it say that African Americans with eating disorders are higher than Caucasian women, so, that still proves my point with the mainly targeted culture in the media. Plus, that survey was taken from readers of a popular African American magazine, not all (or most) African Americans living in America. To me, that research sounds a little off.

And also, Asians have always stressed thinness, regardless of American culture. It's in Asian culture a lot more.

Desire to be thin =/= an eating disorder. At all.

I write a story about someone with anorexia, and I haven't researched the disorder before, yet from the comments I receive it sounds as though I've hit the nail on the head. The writing all comes from my own thoughts and actions, and the story definitely doesn't revolve around starving to be beautiful.

Anorexia is hardly ever about being thin or desiring to be thin. It's about self control and discipline. Sure, I guess the starving can start with someone wanting to be thin or tiny, but then it slowly consumes every aspect of their life and all they want is discipline/control and smaller numbers on the scale to prove that their hard work is paying off. They don't see it in the mirror though.

I guess what I'm saying is that eating disorders like anorexia aren't always about being thin and beautiful. The smaller you are, the closer to perfection you become. I've seen people who do it because they want to be thin, or because everyone else around them has problems and they feel like their problems mean nothing so they develop it, or self control and discipline, or as a way of self punishment, or simply because they fear gaining a single pound. The main objective is to be smaller and weight less.

They know what they're doing to themselves, they know that it's deadly and risky, they know that they are underweight [not all of the time though] but it's never enough. The numbers and perfection are never near what they want, so they must continue until either they disorder gets them or they reach for help. People, both girls and boys, are told that tiny is acceptable and that the bigger you are, the less attractive to society you will be. It doesn't even have to be direct, but heavily implied.

Number XIII:

I guess what I'm saying is that eating disorders like anorexia aren't always about being thin and beautiful. The smaller you are, the closer to perfection you become. I've seen people who do it because they want to be thin, or because everyone else around them has problems and they feel like their problems mean nothing so they develop it, or self control and discipline, or as a way of self punishment, or simply because they fear gaining a single pound. The main objective is to be smaller and weight less.

Tbh, I've never heard any real persons say that their ED was caused by wanting to be 'perfect' - I've only heard it in stories, in fact studies (e.g.) show that people with EDs are not more likely to be 'perfectionists' than people without them. EDs bring so many health problems with them, to me the idea that a (physically) sick body can be experienced by anybody as more 'perfect' than one that is relatively functional defies logic.

@ pravda.
However people develop eating disorders for more than one reason, and the only reason isn't because of being in control of your weight because of past problems you have had.

Also, you slightly sound like you're contradicting yourself because you linked that source which says studies have shown that African Americans are beginning to get eating disorders because of the influences of the magazines. Perhaps I read it wrong or perhaps you're mistaking.

[trigger warning: discussion of ED]
I developed an eating disorder whilst trying to become thinner when I had terrible body issues, but now that I've come to terms with my body, and I actually LIKE being slightly chubby and not thin at all I still find myself wanting to starve. Like, now that my body image is pretty much sorted I feel the urge to do it just for control. I KNOW that eating disorders are about that a lot of the time, but I think it's interesting that I do not want to lose weight, and am happy with my body, but will still not eat for a day just to see if I can.

daisyfairy:

[trigger warning: discussion of ED]
I developed an eating disorder whilst trying to become thinner when I had terrible body issues, but now that I've come to terms with my body, and I actually LIKE being slightly chubby and not thin at all I still find myself wanting to starve. Like, now that my body image is pretty much sorted I feel the urge to do it just for control. I KNOW that eating disorders are about that a lot of the time, but I think it's interesting that I do not want to lose weight, and am happy with my body, but will still not eat for a day just to see if I can.

I think that if you've managed to beat an eating disorder, you've already shown that you have more self control and will power than most people. Of course you can not eat for a day - most people can do that - it's very easy, simply a matter of being patient and distracting yourself from the hunger / nausea / pain - and if you do try it, although it will probably be triggering and painful, on its own it can't do you that much harm because you wouldn't be in recovery if you didn't know how to deal with triggering painful situations - but there's simply no reason for you to measure your self-control in something so petty when you have much bigger achievements.

@ kafka.
Oh no, yeah I know that, I'm pretty well recovered. It's pretty astonishing how quickly you can fall back into it though, a couple of months ago I flirted with the idea of starving and within a few hours my mind was already starting to count calories and think of ways to cut back in meals. It's kind of scary actually.

But yeah, it's only if I'm feeling really shitty that I start to think like that again, as soon as I get my mindset straight again I realise how stupid it would be.

I was hospitalized Saturday evening for hypokalemia, which is dangerously low potassium and I had no choice but to admit that I have an eating disorder to the doctors. I found out my actual weight (I haven't properly weighed myself in about two years) and I was... surprised. I weigh a lot lower than I thought I did and if I have my height correct, my BMI is extremely unhealthy. I'm going to an eating disorder recovery clinic thing on Wednesday though, half out of my own choice and half because I was referred, and I am absolutely terrified. But I've thought about it and I realize that I'm not scared of it because I don't want to go, I'm scared because I'm afraid of letting this bullshit go. I've had this disease for about five years and I've relied on it to show others my emotions, to be able to have something I can be in control of (albeit semi) and to have something I can pinpoint blame and anger on.
I know that it's disgusting, unhelpful, destructive and it's not my "friend", and I want to so desperately leave it behind so I can actually start living my life and put these wasted, tearful years away. I'm tempted to just put off this orientation/welcome meeting at the eating disorder clinic but I know that's not what I want either. I'll suck it up and get over this fear, and go.

I've been struggling with bulimia for five years and anorexia for four years. The only reason why I did it was because girls bullied me for not being the skinniest girl in my grade, and the girls that were heavier than me had already punched all of them in the face

I don't know. I really don't know want happened to me.

I have an eating disorder where I would just eat anything I found I was so hungry. I thought I could fix it by just starving myself I want to stop but every time I see someone thin and beautiful it makes me want to be like them. I have to believe it is from having low self-esteem because I have none. They other day I even almost threw up. I just want to get better but it's so hard

I tried recovery and I made me feel worse. I'm relapsing. I'm compulsive exerciser and I restrict.

kafka.:

Tbh, I've never heard any real persons say that their ED was caused by wanting to be 'perfect' - I've only heard it in stories, in fact studies (e.g.) show that people with EDs are not more likely to be 'perfectionists' than people without them. EDs bring so many health problems with them, to me the idea that a (physically) sick body can be experienced by anybody as more 'perfect' than one that is relatively functional defies logic.

This may not be a particularly popular reasoning, but honestly, this is a part of my ED. I know it doesn't make much sense, and it's also wrapped up with other family issues. But I have used purging as a self-punishment for not being perfect enough. Part of the reason why I started to purge was because I felt so inadequate in my physical education class, and things like not doing well on my school work or being perceived as less than this 'genius/highly intelligent' label that was slapped on to me at a very young age are enough to trigger me to purge.

But you're right, it isn't logical, and I'm not surprised to hear that most people don't share this mind frame.