Feminism

Sorrow Lasts:

I don't get the whole "not wearing a bra thing" It's just there for support, and larger chested women need them, or else it hurts to run or jump or hell, walk. (At least for me)
And heels: I can walk in heels. I enjoy wearing heels.
Femi-nazis need to like, go away.

Interesting that you refer to feminists as "femi-nazis" :think:
I've heard that expression used on many occasions, mainly from women who harbour the exaggerated view that all feminists are anti-makeup and stiletto manhating predators.

Not true, and I am a prime example of that.
There are different types of feminism, and I daresay the "femi-nazis" you are referring to are radical feminists, who are what they are - "radical". But that doesn't mean that they are all evil who have nothing better to do but hate on women who like to wear high heels. These days there are issues more pressing to feminists (all types) than footwear.

In the 1970s came the Sexual Revolution, and during that era it was acceptable amongst younger women to go braless as a demonstration of being sexually free. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find that belief because most women do, in fact wear bras. But it started during the Sexual Revolution.

Maybe you should think about the fact that if it wasn't for "femi-nazis", like those who demonstrated and protested not only several decades ago, but also centuries (first wave feminism, anyone?) then women wouldn't be where they are today. Read up on FEMINISM a little before you stereotype FEMINISTS (that's what they're called, FYI) :coffee:

Leonore Paisley:

Feminism is about women getting equal treatment to men. Hence the "Fem" part of the word. Do you see men getting payed less than a woman because he is of a different sex? I've never seen it. When a man is discriminated against for having a penis, let me know.

However there is some sexual discrimination toward men. If a man and a woman go for the same job, say as a midwife, it's more likely they'll lean toward a woman because they may think that a woman will make another woman feel a lot more comfortable.
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I do think the majority of businesses don't offer fair positions. It annoys me when people refer to men and the 'dominent sex'
Sometimes, yes, a man can do something better than a woman. But heaven forbid a woman do something better than a man.

My point was that it is not a real problem. sexism against men is nowhere near as huge as that against women. I'm not saying it's right in any way, but that it isn't that big of a problem. Discrimination does need to end, but we can only do one thing at a time.

Hellraiser:

Sorrow Lasts:

I don't get the whole "not wearing a bra thing" It's just there for support, and larger chested women need them, or else it hurts to run or jump or hell, walk. (At least for me)
And heels: I can walk in heels. I enjoy wearing heels.
Femi-nazis need to like, go away.

Interesting that you refer to feminists as "femi-nazis" :think:
I've heard that expression used on many occasions, mainly from women who harbour the exaggerated view that all feminists are anti-makeup and stiletto manhating predators.

Not true, and I am a prime example of that.
There are different types of feminism, and I daresay the "femi-nazis" you are referring to are radical feminists, who are what they are - "radical". But that doesn't mean that they are all evil who have nothing better to do but hate on women who like to wear high heels. These days there are issues more pressing to feminists (all types) than footwear.

In the 1970s came the Sexual Revolution, and during that era it was acceptable amongst younger women to go braless as a demonstration of being sexually free. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find that belief because most women do, in fact wear bras. But it started during the Sexual Revolution.

Maybe you should think about the fact that if it wasn't for "femi-nazis", like those who demonstrated and protested not only several decades ago, but also centuries (first wave feminism, anyone?) then women wouldn't be where they are today. Read up on FEMINISM a little before you stereotype FEMINISTS (that's what they're called, FYI) :coffee:

Oh, no. I didn't mean ALL feminists are femi-nazis. I mean the ones who think all men should die or be our slaves or whatever. THOSE were the ones I were talking about. No, dude, I think feminism is awesome.

Sorrow Lasts:

Oh, no. I didn't mean ALL feminists are femi-nazis. I mean the ones who think all men should die or be our slaves or whatever. THOSE were the ones I were talking about. No, dude, I think feminism is awesome.

Sorry about that (replied to your PM by the way)
I just hear the term Femi-Nazis all the time in relation to feminists and it kinda gets me riled up :tehe:

Leonore Paisley:

My point was that it is not a real problem. sexism against men is nowhere near as huge as that against women. I'm not saying it's right in any way, but that it isn't that big of a problem. Discrimination does need to end, but we can only do one thing at a time.

So we can just wait for discrimination against men to fade away on its own because discrimination against women is more important?

sueno?:

Leonore Paisley:

My point was that it is not a real problem. sexism against men is nowhere near as huge as that against women. I'm not saying it's right in any way, but that it isn't that big of a problem. Discrimination does need to end, but we can only do one thing at a time.

So we can just wait for discrimination against men to fade away on its own because discrimination against women is more important?

But discrimination against women is more severe.

Billie Joe Armstrong:

But discrimination against women is more severe.

I personally wouldn't say it's more "severe", but more prominent.

Billie Joe Armstrong:

But discrimination against women is more severe.

Particularly in other regions of the world. When you live in a developed, western country like the UK or the US it's easy to think that the most prejudice thing that happens to women is job discrimination. When in other regions of the world, severe is the perfect word to use, not prominent. Women are kept uneducated and viewed as possessions in places like Saudi Arabia where sexism is government policy.

Kurtni Monroe:

Billie Joe Armstrong:

But discrimination against women is more severe.

Particularly in other regions of the world. When you live in a developed, western country like the UK or the US it's easy to think that the most prejudice thing that happens to women is job discrimination. When in other regions of the world, severe is the perfect word to use, not prominent. Women are kept uneducated and viewed as possessions in places like Saudi Arabia where sexism is government policy.

I was strictly talking about the society I happen to live in, not Saudi Arabia.

I like the feminist movement, but my mother is a full-fledge feminist, and she terrifies me.

Blut:

I like the feminist movement, but my mother is a full-fledge feminist, and she terrifies me.

How come she terrifies you?

So I came across this livejournal entry by a self-proclaimed radical feminist
and maybe I'm just being unobservant, or blinded by my love of the show
she is ranting on, but this honestly made me sick. Especially by her careless
use of the word "rape", and racist statements.

I don't claim to be a feminist, but I certainly do care about women's rights.
And I'd like to hear other females' opinions on this.

I myself am a huge fan of Joss's work, and Firefly. I've seen all of the episodes,
and not once felt objectified as a woman or saw any kind of sexism in the show.
I saw normal male behavior, and the women in the show are strong persons.
Nearly everything in her post, at least to me, seems like she's looking for things to be offended by.

^^ Jesus, it's feminists like that that make me wish they'd just shut the hell up.

"For myself, I’m not sure that I will recover from the shock of watching the malicious way in which Joss stripped his female characters of their integrity, the pleasure he seemed to take from showing potentially powerful women bashed, the way he gleefully demonized female power and selfhood and smashed women into little bits, male fists in women’s faces, male voices drowning out our words."

I don't think she could get more melodramatic. I severely doubt that whilst Joss Whedon was writing that, he was taking 'gleeful pleasure' from it. And the part where she was complaining about a black woman following orders from a white man. Uh, maybe that's because in whatever that tv show is, he's her boss?!

I'm definitley not a feminist, and I do believe in womans rights, but some people just take it way too far. Yes, there is still a lot of discrimination in places, {I'm talking about Western countries} but things are way better than they previously were.

I'm a feminist. Not a radical feminist, not a man-hating feminist, but I simply believe in far-reaching equality for both genders; women being those who most need greater equality, on the whole. I identify with the feminist movement, I certainly don't believe it is dead and we've got a long way to go yet. People shouldn't be complacent and act like women are now equal; far from it. How many female presidents and prime ministers around the world? The answer will be depressing, and it should be 50%. How many legislatures around the world have 50% female representation? Certainly no Western ones.

Feminism has to be the most misconstrued ideology around. Even in this thread, I think some people have been mislead.

I certainly wouldn't call myself a strong feminist, but I do think that women ought to have equal opportunity in all things as men have, and I know this is not the case.

I do have a bit of a problem with the feminist movement, though-- I understand that not all feminists think this way, but from what I've experienced, many feminists look down on women who decide to stay at home and keep house, take care of children, etc. I feel as though this is incredibly limiting. Feminism is about giving women choices. If a woman makes the choice to have a more "traditional" career (and believe me, keeping house is a career) then she should not be criticized by women who have chosen a different path.

I find it incredibly interesting that so many people in this thread go, "I'm not a feminist, but..." Or something along those lines.

Why are people scared of calling themselves a feminist? I'm not saying everyone has to call themselves one - but from my point of view it seems that some people associate feminism with negativity, which is why there's that element of "I believe in women's rights and equality, but I'm not a feminist". I'm a Liberal Feminist myself, but even I admit that the word "feminism" seems to make people reel back a bit.

strider:

I find it incredibly interesting that so many people in this thread go, "I'm not a feminist, but..." Or something along those lines.

Why are people scared of calling themselves a feminist? I'm not saying everyone has to call themselves one - but from my point of view it seems that some people associate feminism with negativity, which is why there's that element of "I believe in women's rights and equality, but I'm not a feminist". I'm a Liberal Feminist myself, but even I admit that the word "feminism" seems to make people reel back a bit.

I said that I wasn't much of a feminist because I wanted to let people know from what perspective I was coming at the issue.

I think some people are afraid of the term "feminism" because of the more radical associations that have been discussed earlier in the thread. Despite perhaps believing in the same tenets that feminism promotes, some people wish to avoid the negative stereotypes.

I think there's a difference between simply believing in women's equal rights and being a feminist. To me, being a feminist implies taking more action toward improving the situation. While I do some things to promote equal rights in my community for all genders, I'm not especially involved in the movement like others are.

strider:

I find it incredibly interesting that so many people in this thread go, "I'm not a feminist, but..." Or something along those lines.

Why are people scared of calling themselves a feminist? I'm not saying everyone has to call themselves one - but from my point of view it seems that some people associate feminism with negativity, which is why there's that element of "I believe in women's rights and equality, but I'm not a feminist". I'm a Liberal Feminist myself, but even I admit that the word "feminism" seems to make people reel back a bit.

I definitely agree. I read somewhere recently that only around 10% of women are comfortable with labeling themselves as feminist, which I find to be quite disturbing. I don't mind labeling myself as 'brunette' or 'skinny', why would I mind calling myself 'feminist'? To quote the wonderful Margaret Cho--"To be feminist is to be alive." (Or something along those lines. :XD)
To me, feminism is simply the idea that women deserve exactly the same rights as men. It doesn't mean that women deserve special treatment, or that everyone with two X chromosomes should go out and burn theirs bras and hate everyone with a penis. It doesn't mean treating women like fragile things, and it doesn't mean treating them like objects. It just means treating them like human beings--which, contrary to popular belief, is what they actually are!

The Velvet Heir:

Despite perhaps believing in the same tenets that feminism promotes, some people wish to avoid the negative stereotypes.

Personally - and I'm not directing this at any individual here - I think it's silly to want to distance yourself from calling yourself a feminist just because some people don't get it. Believing in the ideas that feminism puts forward and saying one supports the idea that women should be treated equally to men on all grounds but yet rejecting the term "feminism" purely because of negativity surrounding it is a little petty. What happened to backbones?

I'm not flaming you personally and I'm not calling you spineless. I'm just putting something out there.

The Velvet Heir:

I think there's a difference between simply believing in women's equal rights and being a feminist. To me, being a feminist implies taking more action toward improving the situation. While I do some things to promote equal rights in my community for all genders, I'm not especially involved in the movement like others are.

Believe it or not, being a feminist isn't all about being active. A feminist is someone who primarily believes that women should have equality with men on all grounds.

So theoretically, all of those who believe women should be equal on all grounds with men are feminists.

There are different types of feminism, and how radical they are can vary. So not all feminists harbour the exact same beliefs, but the primary belief of equality is there.

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Mad in the blood., I agree with everything you said. There are some people who just don't get feminism, and some people believe that feminism exists to somehow make women superior to all others. That doesn't even make sense to me. Feminism isn't about dominating males and it's not supposed to perpetuate hate towards them.