Atheists

Recently I've been overtly annoyed with my little brothers grandmother. We have different fathers and his fathers side of the family is extremely religious to the point where my mother literally turns off the radio if his grandma is in my mother's car in case of offending her since she listens to nothing but Gospel. That's one of the minor annoyances I have to deal with since she rarely rides in our car.

Anyway, since he (my brother) was born I've had very stern issues with the way they try to raise him on that side. My mother is not religious at all, she believes in a god of sorts but hates the church. So I wasn't brought up on any religion, just a bunch of questions with no answers. But with my brother who just turned 5, He's beginning to learn the traits and values his devout family adhear to.

For example, he refuses to say oh my god.
As an atheist I honestly used to try to steer clear of the phrase but as I've gotten older I realized; 1: I don't give a shit about the "ramifications" of using it since I know it really means nothing & 2: it's just a phrase, as I said I don't see it as anything more than an exclamation.

But back to my bro. He will not say it he says oh my my, or completely stops speaking if he catches himself saying it. I have to say it pisses me off because he has no idea why he can't say it. He is far too young to even begin to comprehend what it is he's actually saying when he uses the phrase(exclamation) or what it means on a religious level. And I realized I'm seeing first hand the brainwashing take it's hold. Thankfully he hates going to church because it's boring to him and when he does go he spends the entire time playing angry birds.

It's so scary to me to see these children who aren't equipped at such a young age with the knowledge to think for themselves because all they can do at this point is follow the actions of those around them, obviously. They're force fed these beliefs and truths through fear and rewards. To fear eternity in hell or be rewarded in heaven.

It just makes me so grateful that even though my parents were somewhat religious they never forced it on my other brother and I. I think they regret it now since my brother (who's 16) and I proudly announce our non belief or "unconventional" thinkings when it comes to religion. Which I only think they disapprove because of the awful stereotypes latched on to atheists or atheist/Buddhist in my case...but that is a whole other discussion I'd love to have...

@ Lloyd Christmas
Personally, I don't see a problem with a family raising their children in their fate.
I also wasn't raised in any religion, but I have friends who were, and now that they're adults and can decide for themselves, they don't go to church or to mosque anymore and have their own faiths (or lack thereof), no harm done. Based on that, I believe your brother will be fine. Eventually he will figure out what he wants for himself, even with all the brainwashing.

What I absolutely don't agree with is when parents try to force their beliefs on their kids when said kids are old enough to decide for themselves what to believe in.

@ Filth in the Beauty
True. But there are some people who are too scared to even consider other religions once they're old enough to think for themselves. Like that one family, the most hated family in America. I forget their name.
Yea I definitely have family like that. It's so sad.

Filth in the Beauty:

What I absolutely don't agree with is when parents try to force their beliefs on their kids when said kids are old enough to decide for themselves what to believe in.

Why is it not okay for parents to force beliefs on children who are old enough to be able to resist such imposition, but perfectly fine to do so on children who are not old enough to even comprehend such ideas, let alone challenge them?

@ Alex; periphery.
when we are talking about little children I don't see that as forcing, but teaching.

Children are also taught a whole cultural system that includes language, religion, good manners, moral behavior and so on, as their parents see fit, and when they are too young to challenge those notions. I don't think it can be considered as forcing, or brainwashing. Childhood is exactly this phase of the development of every human being when, exactly because children don't comprehend the world around them or the culture they were born in, they have to learn through their parents.

@ Filth in the Beauty
And teaching them a big man in the sky they've never met will send them to hell for doing bad things isn't forcing them to behave at all? If you're taught that leaving the church will send you to hell, that's more of a threat and less of a lesson.

@ drumonster.
This is not teaching a religion, it's threatening a child into a certain behavior, and it can be done without using "the big man in the sky". My family, even being agnostic, did the same thing to me with the stories of Struwwelpeter and the Knecht Ruprecht, and even though I still don't think parents should be forbidden to teach folklore to their children, especially if it is an important part of their cultural identity.

@ Filth in the Beauty
If that's what your church believes, teaching them that is a lesson. Religions threaten. It's just the way they do shit.

@ drumonster.
I can't believe I'm actually defending religion (sort of), but there it goes.

Yes, religion, or at least institutionalized religion, threatens. Okay. We all know that. It's been this way since the world is world. Anyway, I think is wrong to equal religion and coercion. There is a lot more to religion than only that. There are people (lots of people) who even being religious can think with their own brains, so we can't pretend there is a determinism here, as if when religion says something is wrong everybody will obey and be scared because they are told so. I think you should give people more credit than that. Actually, I know parents who can teach their kids to believe in god or whatever else they believe in, without threatening or scaring them and I don't think these parents are straying from their faith for doing so.

I guess it all also depends on how adults understand their faith. If they see God as a big man in the sky just waiting to punish people and send them to hell, obviously that's how they will teach their children. If they think God is love and mercy, children will experience the same religion in a whole different light.

I don't think being the parent automatically makes your beliefs acceptable to pass on to your children. I shouldn't be able to teach my kids to hate black people. I shouldn't be able to teach my kids that gay people are HIV-carrying scumbags. I shouldn't be able to teach my kids to demonize poor people as lazy moochers. But parents teach their kids those things every day. Just because something has always been that way doesn't mean its right, and I don't think religious beliefs should be any more accepted simply because they're "religious". Religious beliefs can be wrong and hurtful and discriminatory too.

Parents do have the legal right to instill pretty much whatever fucked up beliefs they want into their kids, that doesn't make it moral or optimal parenting.

@ Filth in the Beauty
I identify as a believer. However, I think you're entertaining a notion that believing parents won't take their kids to church/will be okay with their kids leaving the church. My boyfriend says even if he stops feeling like a Catholic, he won't leave the church because his entire family will believe he's damned if he does because you go to hell if you leave the church (in his faith). I know it took me years of depression to be able to break free of the church my parents took us to. My parents also accidentally got involved with a cult when I was younger.

I don't think it should be illegal to raise your kids into a faith or anything, I just think it usually fucks people up in some way. I think general openness and maybe talking about everything or nothing at all is the way to go. Extreme religious beliefs are linked to high depression and suicide.

Religion is taxing and contradictory to me. I prefer Evolution and Natural Selection. Makes complete sense to me. That being said, you can raise your kid to be good without God there to help. I would know. I was not raised religious. And yet I am not a completely terrible person. My mom punished me. She didn't threaten me with hell. Plus, there's too much hypocrisy. If I see one more teenager texting during church while claiming to be into their religion, it's on. You're in church and you call yourself a card-carrying Christian. You show some damned respect. Especially if you plan on using your religion against my beliefs.

@ ptvjaime
A lot of religious people believe in Evolution and Natural Selection. I was actually never taught in church to think God literally made the world in six days. They explained that evolution and the natural laws of science happened through God. (Which I believe, just in the form of conscious energy moreso than a big ole white dude.)

I feel that atheists are given a bad rep by all the snobby whiny ones there are. Not all of us like to hate on religious people and put down their God or Gods. I'm not quite atheist because God is, if anything, a set of physical laws to govern the Universe rather than as Dru put it, a big ole white dude.

herobrine:

I feel that atheists are given a bad rep by all the snobby whiny ones there are. Not all of us like to hate on religious people and put down their God or Gods. I'm not quite atheist because God is, if anything, a set of physical laws to govern the Universe rather than as Dru put it, a big ole white dude.

When an atheist talks about religion, he or she is snobby and whiney. When a Christian talks about religion, they're just spreading the good word and exercising their rights! Such an infuriating double standard.

@ Kurtni
It really is. It makes me sad how religion has the right-away against a lack of such.

Atheists don't believe in God/s.
Theists do believe in God/s.
Agnostics are smart.

adambarck:

Atheists don't believe in God/s.
Theists do believe in God/s.
Agnostics are smart.

Seeing as you either believe in something or you don't, what does that make agnosticism, by your definition?

@ Alex; periphery.
"Seeing as you either believe in something or you don't, what does that make agnosticism, by your definition?"

To answer your question:
It makes agnosticism into something which is not any kind of a blind belief system at all.
Pragmatism is adhered to. Agnostics understand (not BELIEVE) that there are quite obvious boundaries to human knowledge. There are things we will never know.