Being Able to Choose the Sex of Your Child

Adam Gontier.:

If this were allowed, it would definitely be abused.
So, I think there should be regulations for it.
Then again, for example, if it were used in China where girls are the majority in orphanages, people could choose not to have girls.
But, then there'd be too many boys...

How would it be abused? I'm in the US, not China, and I don't think our country favors one gender or the other. It's the people, some people favor males and some favor females, there isn't an exact number...

^She just explained how it could be abused. The gender imbalance in China has gotten so bad (and continues to worsen) that they have a federal ban on the selective abortion of female fetuses. And that's an imbalance that's basically crafted sociologically. If you brought in the genetic opportunity to do the same thing, it could be catastrophic.
And there kind of is a number, of sorts. China has an average male:female demographic ration of about 119:100.
The US actually has a slight gender preference towards females, having a ratio of 97:100.
---
My opinion hasn't changed on this all that much. Gender choice has a definitive medical position, as it can help avoid certain hereditary diseases. I think stopping right about there (or even stopping it before it's used for aesthetic reasons) would be pretty dandy, personally.

^I disagree, I honestly don't see anything wrong with being able to choose the sex of your child just because you can. I mean really, if someone is so against it then they shouldn't do it, but they shouldn't take away someone else's choice to do it.

^Do you honestly see absolutely nothing wrong with this? No potential harm that could come from it, whatsoever?

If so, I'll say we'd have to agree to disagree.
I mean, I'm not saying this is 100% wrong, far from it. Like I said, this in some cases can be very beneficial, medically.
But in the same way, I'd never say it was 100% right; nothing really is.

Sheepy:

^Do you honestly see absolutely nothing wrong with this? No potential harm that could come from it, whatsoever?

If so, I'll say we'd have to agree to disagree.
I mean, I'm not saying this is 100% wrong, far from it. Like I said, this in some cases can be very beneficial, medically.
But in the same way, I'd never say it was 100% right; nothing really is.

I don't see anything wrong with it. There's a lot of people that wouldn't choose the sex of their child 'just because', not everyone's going to do it, but there are some that would like too.

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

Jewel Nicole:

^I disagree, I honestly don't see anything wrong with being able to choose the sex of your child just because you can. I mean really, if someone is so against it then they shouldn't do it, but they shouldn't take away someone else's choice to do it.

That's a pointless argument to make, though. If people are against it then of course they aren't going to do it. The point of being against something like this is that they don't want other people to do it either. They want to take away the choice because they see the choice (in all but medically beneficial situations) as morally wrong.

Still, for my part, if people are going to privately fund this themselves, then I don't think they should be stopped. Indeed, letting the properly sex-fixated people choose the sex of their own child could in many cases actually save lives. Think about it. These are the people, in China or wherever, who are already prepared to abandon/drown/smother female children at birth. Just let them pick a male embryo and the problem is solved, I'd rather they weren't killing an already existing baby. And if this results in a massive imbalance and there are no females left to breed with then they'll have to deal with their own stupid mess or watch their civilisation die out as a result.

Or, in a less extreme case, it would be far better for the psychology of the child in question. Presuming this isn't a society like China, and if you're the sort of person who is so fixated with having a child of a specific sex, you're probably going to end up resenting your child if they don't match up to your sex expectations which would be damaging for them because they'd always be the less-than-ideal child or the child they didn't really want because they were supposed to be a different sex. Let's face it, I wouldn't want a child to feel unwanted either, which I think could happen if an individual is prepared to go to such invasive/extensive/expensive lengths to pick and choose sex.

Matt Smith:

That's a pointless argument to make, though. If people are against it then of course they aren't going to do it. The point of being against something like this is that they don't want other people to do it either. They want to take away the choice because they see the choice (in all but medically beneficial situations) as morally wrong.

Yeah, but people shouldn't want to take other people's right away just because they think it's "morally wrong". Just like there are some people that don't agree with gay marriage and they don't want homosexuals to get married, it's the same thing, in my opinion. It's someone's choice and they shouldn't interfere. And no argument is a pointless one, by the way.

Matt Smith:

Still, for my part, if people are going to privately fund this themselves, then I don't think they should be stopped. Indeed, letting the properly sex-fixated people choose the sex of their own child could in many cases actually save lives. Think about it. These are the people, in China or wherever, who are already prepared to abandon/drown/smother female children at birth. Just let them pick a male embryo and the problem is solved, I'd rather they weren't killing an already existing baby. And if this results in a massive imbalance and there are no females left to breed with then they'll have to deal with their own stupid mess or watch their civilisation die out as a result.

The US actually has a slight gender preference towards females, having a ratio of 97:100. <- I'm quoting Sheepy here.

I'm in the US, there is a slight gender preference, yes, but you've also got to consider that a lot of people won't choose their child's sex, so what are the odds of them having a girl rather than a boy or visa versa. Fifty fifty, right? (Assuming that they have no medical conditions.)

Matt Smith:

Or, in a less extreme case, it would be far better for the psychology of the child in question. Presuming this isn't a society like China, and if you're the sort of person who is so fixated with having a child of a specific sex, you're probably going to end up resenting your child if they don't match up to your sex expectations which would be damaging for them because they'd always be the less-than-ideal child or the child they didn't really want because they were supposed to be a different sex. Let's face it, I wouldn't want a child to feel unwanted either, which I think could happen if an individual is prepared to go to such invasive/extensive/expensive lengths to pick and choose sex.

I can't speak for anyone else except for myself, but if (or when, because I will) I choose the choose the sex of my baby, I'm not the type of person that would have any expectations for my baby as far as their life goes, example: if I picked to have a boy, it wouldn't matter to me if they turned out gay, it wouldn't matter to me if they weren't extremely athletic, or anything like that. Same thing if I picked a girl, the only thing I would be choosing is their sex (and if it's possible their eye/hair color, yes, I'm aware that's a "designer baby", but hey, it's my kid) I wouldn't be aiming to control their personality characteristics or life choices or anything of that sort...

^...My apologies, I'm just annoyingly curious this week. Why do you want to pick the gender/possibly eyes and hair colour of your child, specifically? Because from what you've said you don't really strike as the kind of person who just really really wants a baby boy over a girl, or vice versa.
Do you just want the opportunity to be able to pick if you wanted to, or is this something you're definitely going to do in the future?

Sheepy:

^...My apologies, I'm just annoyingly curious this week. Why do you want to pick the gender/possibly eyes and hair colour of your child, specifically? Because from what you've said you don't really strike as the kind of person who just really really wants a baby boy over a girl, or vice versa.
Do you just want the opportunity to be able to pick if you wanted to, or is this something you're definitely going to do in the future?

No worries, that's a good question, I guess I shouldn't have have said "I will" because I don't know what the future will hold for me, for all I know, (my husband or wife, may not want to do that and of course I'd have to respect that decision and not do it). Everyone is beautiful, in my eyes, anyway, but I would want traits from my parents (because they both passed already) to be a definite part of my babies appearance, I don't know why, I just do. I guess it's because I was so close to my parents and loved them so much that I just want that... I can't really explain it.

My dad would probably turn over in his grave because he was religious and he wouldn't agree with that but I'd be a rebel anyway.

Yeah, it was a crappy response, but I don't know how else to describe it...

Matt Smith:

Still, for my part, if people are going to privately fund this themselves, then I don't think they should be stopped. Indeed, letting the properly sex-fixated people choose the sex of their own child could in many cases actually save lives. Think about it. These are the people, in China or wherever, who are already prepared to abandon/drown/smother female children at birth. Just let them pick a male embryo and the problem is solved, I'd rather they weren't killing an already existing baby. And if this results in a massive imbalance and there are no females left to breed with then they'll have to deal with their own stupid mess or watch their civilisation die out as a result.

There was an article was posted on the Yahoo front page featured articles thingie a few days ago about how in a few years there will be 30 million more men than women in China. Not that I really like China, but I think it's wrong to let parents doom their children's generation to celibacy. It's like refusing to take any anti-climate change measures, because if individuals won't take them they'll have to watch their civilisation (and most of humanity) die out as a result. It's idealistic to assume people will be responsible when they don't absolutely have to.

Jewel Nicole:

Yeah, but people shouldn't want to take other people's right away just because they think it's "morally wrong". Just like there are some people that don't agree with gay marriage and they don't want homosexuals to get married, it's the same thing, in my opinion. It's someone's choice and they shouldn't interfere. And no argument is a pointless one, by the way.

Well, okay, I just consider it a somewhat irrelevant and stating-the-obvious type argument which has no real value. People take other peoples' rights away all the time because they think they're morally wrong, why do you think rape and heroin and drink-driving are all illegal? Somebody judged that the right to rape, take heroin and drink drive were morally wrong. Nobody would say 'well, if you don't like rape, don't get raped' or 'if you don't like heroin, don't take heroin' or 'if you don't like drink driving, don't drink drive'. It's about preventing other people too. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but I'm explaining the mentality and why that argument doesn't really work.

Second statement, I was confining my discussion to China and China only. I'm not really interested in the US for the purposes of this discussion since there isn't a cultural motive towards a drastic bias in terms of sex.

So if you don't care about having a butch daughter or an effeminate son (if I can imply that?) then why is choosing sex so important? If you're not going to force a female child into conforming to female gender traits/roles/styles and you're not going to force a male child into conforming to male gender traits/roles/styles, what's the point? Biological sex is relatively insignificant to me (as an advocate of, amongst other things, transgender rights) - set gender norms equally so. They don't have a purpose but if you were to define your child's sex before it was even born then it seems to me you'd be relying way too much on gender role/style/expectation.

^Because I would like a daughter and a son.

Also, everything that you mentioned causes harm to someone, choosing the sex of your child doesn't.

Jewel Nicole:

^Because I would like a daughter and a son.

Also, everything that you mentioned causes harm to someone, choosing the sex of your child doesn't.

But why do you want specifically a daughter and a son, if you don't expect them to conform to certain characteristics?

Fry:

But why do you want specifically a daughter and a son, if you don't expect them to conform to certain characteristics?

I just do, and that really should be all the explanation I need to give, I don't need a list on "why" I want one of each. Especially since it's my decision to make... you know? (And I don't mean to come off as rude, I'm just saying that it's a personal choice and no one else's except my own.)

Jewel Nicole:

Fry:

But why do you want specifically a daughter and a son, if you don't expect them to conform to certain characteristics?

I just do, and that really should be all the explanation I need to give, I don't need a list on "why" I want one of each. Especially since it's my decision to make... you know? (And I don't mean to come off as rude, I'm just saying that it's a personal choice and no one else's except my own.)

There are so many children out there who are waiting to be adopted and who will never have a chance at a truly happy childhood and instead of helping them, you're wasting an obscene amount of money on creating what your prejudices tell you would be a perfect family. It is your decision, indeed, but just because it's your choice you can't expect me to think it's moral.

^I don't expect you to think it's moral at all, I'd expect you to not interfere with my decision making. (Or anyone else's.)

Adoption isn't for everyone, I can't stress that enough. I think adoption is a beautiful thing, yes, it takes children into a home where they're loved, but like I stated, it's not for everyone, and that's okay. Some people, like me, would like children of their own, there's nothing wrong with at.

Jewel Nicole:

^I don't expect you to think it's moral at all, I'd expect you to not interfere with my decision making. (Or anyone else's.)

Adoption isn't for everyone, I can't stress that enough. I think adoption is a beautiful thing, yes, it takes children into a home where they're loved, but like I stated, it's not for everyone, and that's okay. Some people, like me, would like children of their own, there's nothing wrong with at.

Why is there nothing wrong with not adopting? Why is it perfectly okay to choose the satisfaction that having perfect little versions of you would give you over a child's chance at a truly happy childhood?

kafka.:

Why is there nothing wrong with not adopting? Why is it perfectly okay to choose the satisfaction that having perfect little versions of you would give you over a child's chance at a truly happy childhood?

I'm the type of person that would want my children to be mine, biologically/genetically or how ever you want to put it. I'm the type of person that would probably also adopt too, but I would want kids of my own at the same time. But adoption isn't for anyone, and I don't see why you think something is wrong with that?
Why is it perfectly okay for you to jump into someone else's life and tell them what to do? I'm all for you disagreeing with it for yourself and disagreeing with it for others, but what I don't agree with is people trying to take away other people's right to do it.

Jewel Nicole:

kafka.:

Why is there nothing wrong with not adopting? Why is it perfectly okay to choose the satisfaction that having perfect little versions of you would give you over a child's chance at a truly happy childhood?

I'm the type of person that would want my children to be mine, biologically/genetically or how ever you want to put it. I'm the type of person that would probably also adopt too, but I would want kids of my own at the same time. But adoption isn't for anyone, and I don't see why you think something is wrong with that?
Why is it perfectly okay for you to jump into someone else's life and tell them what to do? I'm all for you disagreeing with it for yourself and disagreeing with it for others, but what I don't agree with is people trying to take away other people's right to do it.

And some people are the type of person who molests children. That doesn't make their choice perfectly okay.
Isn't the pursuit of happiness a natural right too? By not adopting you're robbing a child of their right to happiness and for what? personal satisfaction that is based on nothing more than prejudice. It is perfectly okay for the government to jump into someone's life and tell them what they can't do because laws protect us all. What if you were an orphan? Would you think it's perfectly okay for nobody to want to be your family simply because you're not genetically theirs? Do you think discrimination is perfectly okay? Many people think gender equality isn't for anyone, that there are some women who don't deserve to be treated equally, is there nothing wrong with that?

kafka.:

And some people are the type of person who molests children. That doesn't make their choice perfectly okay.
Isn't the pursuit of happiness a natural right too? By not adopting you're robbing a child of their right to happiness and for what? personal satisfaction that is based on nothing more than prejudice. It is perfectly okay for the government to jump into someone's life and tell them what they can't do because laws protect us all. What if you were an orphan? Would you think it's perfectly okay for nobody to want to be your family simply because you're not genetically theirs? Do you think discrimination is perfectly okay? Many people think gender equality isn't for anyone, that there are some women who don't deserve to be treated equally, is there nothing wrong with that?

We're talking about something that isn't harming anyone. We're not talking about molesters or anything like that, so, please, don't put that in the same category because it's not the same thing.

I am an orphan, both of my parents are deceased, obviously, if you can see my signature it's stated so clearly. Edit: So, I know what it's like to not have someone around that isn't your parents, and you know what? I still wouldn't care if someone didn't and take me in, I wasn't upset at anyone when someone didn't, I'm all about choice. If someone wasn't interested in adopting me then why should I be upset or hurt? It's just not for them and I can understand that.

It has nothing to do with discrimination at all, it's a preference. Not everyone adopts children because it's just not something that everyone wants to do. Sure, it would be great if every single person would adopt a kid, but that's not the case, everyone isn't, that doesn't make them a horrible person because they chose not to adopt and want children of their own.