Heaven and Hell

Toby Turner:

I'm not jumping into debate but that viewpoint sounds really interesting. Expand?

Well, God is like the ultimate Father. Our parents discipline us out of love [most of the time?]

Hell exists for the people who don't want God in their lives. Because God loves us, He gives us what we want. If we want Him, we get Heaven, if we reject Him then we get Hell. If God didn't love us, well we'd either cease to exist or end up in some place without God, but it wouldn't necessarily be Hell because I think unless there is a Heaven you can't have a Hell, either.

That doesn't look like it makes sense, but it does in my head.

I believe there is also an actual theological premise to the whole if God wasn't a loving God there wouldn't be a Hell, but it's been a while since I've researched it.

Nik0:

I don't believe in Heaven nor Hell but if I do decide to believe in them, I don't think Hell should even exist since that doesn't make God seem like "all loving" at all.

I believe Earth is Hell, so God's creation of Earth doesn't seem unloving to me.

I don't believe in a biblical Heaven or Hell.
I believe in an afterlife, yes- but neither of those things.
I feel like those who leave the earth end up in one place sort-of like a purgatory, where depending on how you lived, it continues on. Like, if you were peaceful & kind, then things would go well for you in your life in this place. Obviously you know what chaos is to justify this peace but you've already learned that & earned the right to live in the peaceful place.
Sorry if my wording is confusing.

The Pies Endure:

Well, God is like the ultimate Father. Our parents discipline us out of love [most of the time?]

Hell exists for the people who don't want God in their lives. Because God loves us, He gives us what we want. If we want Him, we get Heaven, if we reject Him then we get Hell. If God didn't love us, well we'd either cease to exist or end up in some place without God, but it wouldn't necessarily be Hell because I think unless there is a Heaven you can't have a Hell, either.

That doesn't look like it makes sense, but it does in my head.

I believe there is also an actual theological premise to the whole if God wasn't a loving God there wouldn't be a Hell, but it's been a while since I've researched it.

Hmm, that's actually quite an interesting theory. I do agree that there there cannot be a Heaven without a Hell. It's a whole yin and yang thing, isn't it? There is one aspect for questioning though. A parent will (usually) forgive transgressions. It would imply that there might be a chance to move from Hell to Heaven. I might be misinterpreting though.

I told this girl in my hall that I really like the idea of purgatory and she got mad at me because it "isn't scriptural" even though we do things that aren't in scripture, and we don't do things that are. Why do people get mad when you simply say that you like the idea of something in another belief system? I go to a Christian school, so I could maybe understand if I had been talking Hinduism or something, but no, I was saying Catholicism, which is another Christian religion.

Toby Turner:

Hmm, that's actually quite an interesting theory. I do agree that there there cannot be a Heaven without a Hell. It's a whole yin and yang thing, isn't it? There is one aspect for questioning though. A parent will (usually) forgive transgressions. It would imply that there might be a chance to move from Hell to Heaven. I might be misinterpreting though.

That's an interesting thought, and not one I ascribe to though. I think the parent analogy, as all analogies go, can only go so far :).

The Pies Endure:

That's an interesting thought, and not one I ascribe to though. I think the parent analogy, as all analogies go, can only go so far :).

Naturally but yeah. I think I get where you're coming from with that so cheers .

I believe there a Heaven and Hell.

The way I was brought up was that heaven is in the clouds and that, while hell we walk it. Earth is Hell ("Hell on Earth") that's what I believe anyway.

Bitten Ones For Love:

I believe there a Heaven and Hell.

The way I was brought up was that heaven is in the clouds and that, while hell we walk it. Earth is Hell ("Hell on Earth") that's what I believe anyway.

You believe in a literal heaven in the clouds?

I bet Hell is more entertaining and fun :)

Airon:

I bet Hell is more entertaining and fun :)

I personally can't really identify a link between eternal burning and entertainment. But that's just me.

Heaven and Hell are fictional elements created by religions. They need a karma system, otherwise the people will have no reason to try so hard to obey the rules set out by their religions. They use fear of punishment and the promise of reward. When you die, all that happens is that your brain stops functioning. You'll be gone, just like the time before you were even born. But of course this is all just my opinion.

xCrusafictionx:

Heaven and Hell are fictional elements created by religions. They need a karma system, otherwise the people will have no reason to try so hard to obey the rules set out by their religions. They use fear of punishment and the promise of reward. When you die, all that happens is that your brain stops functioning. You'll be gone, just like the time before you were even born. But of course this is all just my opinion.

See, this doesn't work with Christianity, or at least the 'brand' I follow. We can't ever adhere to the rules well enough to go to Heaven. Only believing in Jesus will get us there. It's not what we do that will get us there, it's what He did for us on the Cross. But that's just Christianity.

For the other world religions, obeying rules and doing good is the order of the day, and I agree that's not really very...nice?

Though on the other hand I like to think that an afterlife exists. Though if I'm wrong, I haven't really lost anything. After all, if you just cease to exist, you're never gonna know and that'll be that.

The Pies Endure:

For the other world religions, obeying rules and doing good is the order of the day, and I agree that's not really very...nice?

Sounds pretty nice to me. You be a good person, you get a reward. A lot of social structures/interactions use incentive systems. And if everyone believed that if they were good people and orderly people they would get a reward, and everyone was good and orderly (with good being broader than "don't harm others" to something like "actually help people in need") that doesn't sound like such a bad world to live in.

pravda.:

Sounds pretty nice to me. You be a good person, you get a reward. A lot of social structures/interactions use incentive systems. And if everyone believed that if they were good people and orderly people they would get a reward, and everyone was good and orderly (with good being broader than "don't harm others" to something like "actually help people in need") that doesn't sound like such a bad world to live in.

I think more along the lines of the consequences for NOT doing good isn't nice.

The Pies Endure:

I think more along the lines of the consequences for NOT doing good isn't nice.

But do you disagree with the modern (/Western) criminal justice system? We take away peoples' liberty (and put them into a very unpleasant environment - hostile, dangerous, violent) when they harm others.

Why shouldn't a religion import this system?

It seems a lot more rational and fair than a system where arbitrary acceptance of an arbitrary event that you may or may not have heard about and which may or may not have happened (within a system you may or may not believe in) determines your eternal state of being, regardless of your morals and intentions. What sort of God condemns someone who devotes their life to curing sick children and helping the homeless, but embraces a murderer because they accepted the story of His (/His son's) sacrifice?

I'm not saying it's wrong, more responding to the fact that some people think that religions scare people into behaving when I don't think it should be that way.

xCrusafictionx:

Heaven and Hell are fictional elements created by religions. They need a karma system, otherwise the people will have no reason to try so hard to obey the rules set out by their religions. They use fear of punishment and the promise of reward. When you die, all that happens is that your brain stops functioning. You'll be gone, just like the time before you were even born. But of course this is all just my opinion.

But there was no need to invent punishments after death because until recently most people suffered really horrific punishments while they were alive if they broke the rules of the community they lived in. Doesn't the danger of being stoned to death make you not want to cheat on your spouse more than the danger of committing a sin for which you can ask for forgiveness?

The Pies Endure:

I'm not saying it's wrong, more responding to the fact that some people think that religions scare people into behaving when I don't think it should be that way.

But you don't think Christianity does that? I do. I remember being twelve and crying for hours because God was going to punish my mom by sending her to hell for not believing in Him.

dru runs this town.:

But you don't think Christianity does that? I do. I remember being twelve and crying for hours because God was going to punish my mom by sending her to hell for not believing in Him.

That's the Churches' fault. That's not the way it's meant to be. I've been taught in my later years that to 'convert' people it's better just to be me so they can see what Christ has done for and in me. And that it's because of love not fear that I serve God.

Another thing is because my view of Hell is different, I guess I'm not really afraid of it, because if someone chooses to reject God then Hell is the natural consequence. They get what they want in the end. They don't want God? They don't get God. [Extremely simplified expression of what I believe btw]