Heaven and Hell

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

Ouch...no not blind faith.

Yes, blind faith. It is based on a belief not factual proof and therefore is blind.

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

You need to have real faith.

Blind faith is still real faith.

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

The Bible is proof. Life is proof. The entire universe is proof.

The Bible is a book, and life and the universe have alternative explanations. It is not proof, because it is not based on provable facts. Only belief.

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

God can speak to everyone.

Then why not prove his existence to everyone, instead of just those who believe?

It's the same deal as I said earlier (I think it was in another thread): those who believe in fairies are the only ones who see them. Those who believe in God are the only ones who "talk" to him.

Why? Well, the human brain is an amazing thing.

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

In being a murder and finding God you will be judged differently on how you were.

If you repent your sins and are forgiven you go to Heaven no matter what your crime.

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

A person who devoted his live to God would have a 'Higher position' more rather. Kind of like different sections.

What happened to "we're all God's children and we are all equal"?

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

Yes you can still be a good person and not believe in God that is your decision I have nothing wrong with the way people believe.

I never said you couldn't being a good person.
What I'm saying, that if somone is a good person, who has done little to no wrong in their life, they will still go to Hell for not believing in God.

You can dedicate your life to helping others, raise money for charity and go live in Africa and save starving children, but you'd still go to Hell if you were not Christian.

A persons morality seems to play no part in what God cares about. It's basically "believe in me and I'll let you in, if you don't it's off to Hell. :coffee:"

It just screams "narcissist" to me.

I don't believe ANYONE deserves what many Christians see as Hell. No matter how bad they were, they don't deserve to burn and be tortured FOREVER. Everyone deserves SOME mercy. The thought of someone being put through all that pain, and for it to NEVER END makes me feel sick.

fluff;:

I don't believe ANYONE deserves what many Christians see as Hell. No matter how bad they were, they don't deserve to burn and be tortured FOREVER. Everyone deserves SOME mercy. The thought of someone being put through all that pain, and for it to NEVER END makes me feel sick.

but, if you put it that way, why would murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. deserve an eternity of perfect happiness and peace?

andILY.:

fluff;:

I don't believe ANYONE deserves what many Christians see as Hell. No matter how bad they were, they don't deserve to burn and be tortured FOREVER. Everyone deserves SOME mercy. The thought of someone being put through all that pain, and for it to NEVER END makes me feel sick.

but, if you put it that way, why would murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. deserve an eternity of perfect happiness and peace?

Because, according to the Christian creed of forgiveness, they would repent for their sins and become just as good as everyone else.

You can't be stained for eternity for a split-second of sinning on earth. Well, possibly you can, but I find that utterly cruel, myself. There's no 'deserving' it at the end of the day, because I believe we're all people, not purely bad or purely good. But then, that's probably why I don't believe in god.

andILY.:

fluff;:

I don't believe ANYONE deserves what many Christians see as Hell. No matter how bad they were, they don't deserve to burn and be tortured FOREVER. Everyone deserves SOME mercy. The thought of someone being put through all that pain, and for it to NEVER END makes me feel sick.

but, if you put it that way, why would murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. deserve an eternity of perfect happiness and peace?

they've already been punished during their lifetime. I, personally, don't even believe in Hell, but no one should have to go there for eternity.

Sheepy:

sunshines:

you need an equal balance of good and evil.

Forgive the bluntness, but...why do you need an equal balance?

Is it ok if I answer this for sunshines? :cute:

Well, think about it - if you didn't have an equal balance of good and evil, then surely one would proveil?
If it was evil that proveiled, then human kind would start to fall apart - there would be more crimes, relationships would end, etc. But say, if good proveiled instead, then the number of sins would be a lot less...

Since Earth is somewhere between heaven and hell, it can't be either - not too good, or evil.

Killing Loneliness:

Well, think about it - if you didn't have an equal balance of good and evil, then surely one would proveil?
If it was evil that proveiled, then human kind would start to fall apart - there would be more crimes, relationships would end, etc. But say, if good proveiled instead, then the number of sins would be a lot less...

So on the premise that neither good nor evil can prevail, there has to be an equal balance of the two concepts?

Sheepy:

Killing Loneliness:

Well, think about it - if you didn't have an equal balance of good and evil, then surely one would proveil?
If it was evil that proveiled, then human kind would start to fall apart - there would be more crimes, relationships would end, etc. But say, if good proveiled instead, then the number of sins would be a lot less...

So on the premise that neither good nor evil can prevail, there has to be an equal balance of the two concepts?

Killing Loneliness:

Sheepy:

So on the premise that neither good nor evil can prevail, there has to be an equal balance of the two concepts?

I am inclined to disagree, simply because I can't see anything to be that absolute where humantiy is concerned.
The idea of the balance of good and evil also gives me the idea that a good deed pre-empts a sin in an attempt to keep 'the balance'.
I mean, of course good is the antithesis of evil, but I don't see how that, or the premise that neither can prevail means there must be an equal balance.

Though in an effort to understand your point better and get slightly more on topic:
Heaven is supposedly all-good, right?
And Hell all-evil?
So would you say Earth just the absolute middle ground between the two? In equal parts, good and evil, hence the need for equal balance?

fluff;:

andILY.:

fluff;:

I don't believe ANYONE deserves what many Christians see as Hell. No matter how bad they were, they don't deserve to burn and be tortured FOREVER. Everyone deserves SOME mercy. The thought of someone being put through all that pain, and for it to NEVER END makes me feel sick.

but, if you put it that way, why would murderers, thieves, rapists, etc. deserve an eternity of perfect happiness and peace?

they've already been punished during their lifetime. I, personally, don't even believe in Hell, but no one should have to go there for eternity.

And in the end, we're all humans and we deserve to be treated equally when our lives are over, since we sure aren't treated equally when we are alive.

fluff;:

And in the end, we're all humans and we deserve to be treated equally when our lives are over, since we sure aren't treated equally when we are alive.

So if everyone ends up in Heaven anyway, what's the point of life on Earth?.

Killing Loneliness:

Sheepy:

sunshines:

you need an equal balance of good and evil.

Forgive the bluntness, but...why do you need an equal balance?

Is it ok if I answer this for sunshines? :cute:

Well, think about it - if you didn't have an equal balance of good and evil, then surely one would proveil?
If it was evil that proveiled, then human kind would start to fall apart - there would be more crimes, relationships would end, etc. But say, if good proveiled instead, then the number of sins would be a lot less...

Since Earth is somewhere between heaven and hell, it can't be either - not too good, or evil.

And to add to that, for every action there is a pro and a con. Not one thing will benefit all of human kind. :shifty
- - -
Thanks Killing Loneliness. :cute:

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

I'm not going to get punished unless its mocking or down to earth mean.

What do you mean "down to earth"? So if I called God my homie, would that me mocking? What's the point of giving him this air of majesty?

XSilentlyCriedTearsX:

The New Earth is a long away prophecy. All believers of 'God' are more than sure going to be in Heaven. In the conspirecy of earth there will be no evil that is what heaven is about. Reason being evil will be in the void of nothingness, or abyss. You would be in the afterlife that is the point to live with God in Heaven for eternity.
Another belief... God is concenpted to be in Heaven and Satan in Hell. Following the Bible then satan wanted Gods powers, but used them for mean things. Nothing that brought more than one happiness.

I would understand the new earth thing if it was a parallel world but, immortality? What happens to the action of living on earth that God graced us with?
This concept is highly incredible, and the all believers of "God;" me being atheist, I'm damned to an eternity in hell according to my religion teacher.
You say that hell will become a void of nothingness, so no evil is present. I'm pretty sure not all people in heaven will be devoutly moral. They're a rare breed.
Evil would still be there, in my opinion. Just hiding in that black abyss once called Hell.

EDIT:Consider it like the greenhouse effect.
The idea is that for the production of greenhouse gases in the past there would be an equal consumption of them so they remained at a consistent level, to allow a stable climate for the earth.
However with the enhanced greenhouse effect, we having too much of the bad stuff, in this instance it is the greenhouse gases due to the burning of fossil fuels. From this extra “evil”, I use the term loosely, bad things are happening. The same is for the issue of good vs evil.
If the new earth was purely good, it would cause am imbalance and everything would be too good. That's a bad thing too. :shifty
If everything was completely good, perfect and what God perceives are good, then how are we supposed to appreciate the good things given to us? To really appreciate the highs in life, you have to trudge through the difficult times.
Personally, if everyone was born in this world of perfect Heaven, we would be taken for grated because everything is fantastically good, and we wouldn't know otherwise because we would've never experienced “evil.”

Sheepy:

I am inclined to disagree, simply because I can't see anything to be that absolute where humantiy is concerned.
The idea of the balance of good and evil also gives me the idea that a good deed pre-empts a sin in an attempt to keep 'the balance'.
I mean, of course good is the antithesis of evil, but I don't see how that, or the premise that neither can prevail means there must be an equal balance.

Though in an effort to understand your point better and get slightly more on topic:
Heaven is supposedly all-good, right?
And Hell all-evil?
So would you say Earth just the absolute middle ground between the two? In equal parts, good and evil, hence the need for equal balance?

I respect your opinion, and though the concept seems surreal I just have a little faith it.
- - -
Heaven can't be all evil they have Lucifer the evil angel in there once, so it's possible that evil bred up there too.
Hell can't be all evil too, because some people view it as their Heaven, would Satanic people be an example? And hell, I just don't know. The concept of something purely evil, and purely good cannot be true because what makes good & bad? It depends utterly on the perception of the individual and there's areas of grey in between. That's my idiotic say.

sunshines:

Hell can't be all evil too, because some people view it as their Heaven, would Satanic people be an example?

Hmm, not necessarily. Not all Satanists believe in going to Hell once you die. Some Satanists see Satan and Hell as being metaphorical rather than actual... things.

die sektor:

sunshines:

Hell can't be all evil too, because some people view it as their Heaven, would Satanic people be an example?

Hmm, not necessarily. Not all Satanists believe in going to Hell once you die. Some Satanists see Satan and Hell as being metaphorical rather than actual... things.

Thank-you! I had no idea...:shifty

die sektor:

sunshines:

Hell can't be all evil too, because some people view it as their Heaven, would Satanic people be an example?

Hmm, not necessarily. Not all Satanists believe in going to Hell once you die. Some Satanists see Satan and Hell as being metaphorical rather than actual... things.

And, as metaphors, what do they symbolize?

^Well, with LaVeyan Satanists, for example, they see the symbol or metaphor of Satan as representing natural human desire and behaviour.
I'm not sure of any other denominations of Satanism who believe that though.

Just as a side note: (this is from the Wiki on LaVeyan Satansim; it can explain it better than I can)

Quote

Satanists do not believe that Satan is a god; rather, the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards towards a God.
LaVey proposes, instead, that if all gods are creations of humans, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanists should instead internalize their gods and therefore worship themselves; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."
It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well. Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity, and often dismissed as a Christian heresy.

die sektor:

^Well, with LaVeyan Satanists, for example, they see the symbol or metaphor of Satan as representing natural human desire and behaviour.
I'm not sure of any other denominations of Satanism who believe that though.

Just as a side note: (this is from the Wiki on LaVeyan Satansim; it can explain it better than I can)

Quote

Satanists do not believe that Satan is a god; rather, the function of God is performed and satisfied by the Satanist him/herself. That is, the needs of worship, ritual, and religious/spiritual focus are directed, effectively, inwards towards the Satanist, as opposed to outwards towards a God.
LaVey proposes, instead, that if all gods are creations of humans, worship of an external deity is worship of its creator by proxy. He suggests, then, that the rational Satanists should instead internalize their gods and therefore worship themselves; hence the Satanic maxim, "I am my own god."
It follows that Satanism shuns the idea of belief in all other deities as well. Belief in any such externalized deities is generally considered grounds for excluding someone as a Satanist, and devil worship in particular is considered nothing more than a misguided inversion of Christianity, and often dismissed as a Christian heresy.

And then what does Hell symbolize?

^I don't know, I'm not an expert on Satanism.

But considering some Satanists mightn't believe in a higher being, maybe not all Satanists believe in hell?
If they view themselves as being their "own god", then perhaps they don't believe in hell. Maybe they just believe in living this life on earth they way they want to live it.