Hitler

no one could possibly think he was good.
he killed millions of innocent Jews.
However, without him our world would be a totally different place.
I find it interesting that Hitler himself had Jewish heritage and yet felt the need to massacre them as part of his regime.
I find it humorous that he was a vegetarian.
Just goes to show, doesn't it?

The Doctor.:

*prepares to be attacked*

Hitler was a brilliant man. He had a keen mind, brought great change to Germany like the banning of fox-hunting. He was a vegeterian. He was straight-edge. Bit loopy mind but the whole anti-Semetic thing has been going on since the Dark Ages so they were an easy target. As such were the others he chose to blame. Along with some classic techniques such as great manipulation of social roles and the agentic state made it pretty easy to gather a willing army. He was a brilliant speaker. If you where there, at a speech and he was blaming these people for unemployment and other social ills, I really doubt many of us wouldn't believe him.

This all brings me back to Milgram's famous study. It got a lot, and I mean a lot, of criticism but mainly because it showed that so many obeyed the orders because of social roles, dehumanisation of the assaliants and the agentic state being used so much instead of deviant personalities as was thought back then. That made it suggest that it could happen to anywhere, anyone. Doesn't matter.

Besides, there was good and bad on both sides of the fence. People can say that they were awful but so was some of our 'brave boys'.

Yes, the many killed was a human disaster...but it could have been stopped. It wasn't. Time is fixed at that point. Nothing can change it. It's just a sad blot in what could have been the greatest century ever. Evil only occurs when the good do nothing.

I'm not sure if I made it clear but I am not a Nazi-supporter. Just wanted to reiterate that.

In a way I do agree with you. Actually you can't deny the fact that he had a great mind (which he used in a bad way) but still he had some real big mental issues because of what he did.
And yes, antisemtic stuff was on before Hitler, for example, Karl Lueger also was like him. He even was Hitler's role model.

I agree with the both of you up there.

I was assigned to do a study on Hitler's last days before his and Eva Braun's suicide and in a way, that also obliged me to study his whole life as well.

Hitler indeed was destined to become a leader, although, back when he was only starting to get involved with politics, no one would ever guess he'd become this (in)famous. He had the charisma and the ability to manipulate with the masses, that's true, and his mind, yes, it truly was brilliant, but also sadly deluded.

The most of his Nazi politics was based on the crooked image of Nietzsche's philosophy. Why crooked? Nietzsche's sister took it upon herself to finish her brother's unfinished work and while doing so added a few lines here and there herself and she really was a great supporter of the Nazi politics.

His brilliance was sadly reduced in the last weeks of his life. The straight edge man became a paranoid alcoholic. His health worsened proportionally to the deterioration of the conditions in the war he started. By the time the SSSR managed to enter Berlin, he was gone. Too stubborn to run or to accept help, he killed himself.

Yes, the horrors of holocaust are something the world will never forget or ever should, but as it had been said before, ever since the Dark Ages were the Jews and the Muslims and numerous others considered less worthy or even heretics and were therefore terribly mistreated. Still, that does not, not in the slightest, lessen the huge extent of damage Hitler has made.

His impact is so strong that we are still fixing what he had broken, so to speak. We still have numerous young people following his ideology and with that destroying others' lives.

As brilliant as he might have been, his legacy is nothing but a bunch of deluded mistakes we're now being forced to set straight.

You also have to think of the time this all was happening.
In the middle of the 1920 there was this great depression and the unemployement grew by day. People didn't know how to feed their families and there was of course (like always) some injustice. All in all it was a really rough time. Then Hitler came and promised to the (poor) people that he will make a different. He won't be one of those 'I try to get all money from you' guys. People back then had the hope that he would make their lifes better.

So I think this would even be possible today (maybe not the consequences with the concentration camps but this whole 'leader' concept).
Unemployment and injustice are a really big issue and the gab between poor and rich is getting bigger. And this whole thing is worrying me.

Some people say that there is gonna be a 3rd world war but I do believe that we already have some kind of that. This time it is not countries fighting, I think it is more like a 'invisible' war. more of a terrorism war.

I get your point, and once again, I agree with you completely. When you take his abilities as a leader into consideration, any politician of his charisma and zeal would be able to get us out of the present situation. It's just that it's kinda hard to think about his good side and bad side separately, one always finds a way to mess with the other and there is no objective way for us to judge on them individually.

What's bugging me is that he only promised that kind of better life to those who were of "pure breed" so to speak. People are still being discriminated and some are not even being treated like human beings anymore.

Oh yeah. There is too many injustuice and racism in this world. What I am really interesting in knowing is why he had this huge hate on Jews? Like I said it was a rough time back then, but still. Maybe he had some bad experiences with them? Oh well.. that's not an excuse for what he did.

Bastard Son.:

As brilliant as he might have been, his legacy is nothing but a bunch of deluded mistakes we're now being forced to set straight.

I agree completely.
Everything you said is what I would have said if I could have worded it as well as you did.

FrancyPansy:

The Doctor.:

*prepares to be attacked*

Hitler was a brilliant man. He had a keen mind, brought great change to Germany like the banning of fox-hunting. He was a vegetarian. He was straight-edge. Bit loopy mind but the whole anti-Semitic thing has been going on since the Dark Ages so they were an easy target. As such were the others he chose to blame. Along with some classic techniques such as great manipulation of social roles and the agentic state made it pretty easy to gather a willing army. He was a brilliant speaker. If you where there, at a speech and he was blaming these people for unemployment and other social ills, I really doubt many of us wouldn't believe him.

This all brings me back to Milgram's famous study. It got a lot, and I mean a lot, of criticism but mainly because it showed that so many obeyed the orders because of social roles, dehumanization of the assailants and the agentic state being used so much instead of deviant personalities as was thought back then. That made it suggest that it could happen to anywhere, anyone. Doesn't matter.

Besides, there was good and bad on both sides of the fence. People can say that they were awful but so was some of our 'brave boys'.

Yes, the many killed was a human disaster...but it could have been stopped. It wasn't. Time is fixed at that point. Nothing can change it. It's just a sad blot in what could have been the greatest century ever. Evil only occurs when the good do nothing.

I'm not sure if I made it clear but I am not a Nazi-supporter. Just wanted to reiterate that.

In a way I do agree with you. Actually you can't deny the fact that he had a great mind (which he used in a bad way) but still he had some real big mental issues because of what he did.
And yes, antisemtic stuff was on before Hitler, for example, Karl Lueger also was like him. He even was Hitler's role model.

I agree some of the things he did were wrong but he did have a brilliant mind. He was an excellent speaker and knew how to make people believe him. People after the first world war were lost and needed guidence in Germany and they happened to find Hitler as the answer to all their problems. He misled people who needed guidance and did it perfectly, brilliantly. He didn't do animal testing like so many people dislike today but he did do different medical testing on people like twins and the deformed. Sure some of the things he wanted to do were right, but those things were done in the wrong way. And I don't mean that killing Jews was right, it was defiantly wrong, but he did want to preserve his country and make it better; he just didn't do it in the right way. Anti-Nazi and all just making a few points and hoping I don't sound like an idiot.

=) No you don't. What you say makes sense and I do agree. Many people just see the bad sides of it but like you said, he actually wanted to make "everything better".

He could have been a truly amazing leader if he weren't so racist.

I was brought up Jewish and learnt that the Holocaust was horrible. I went to museams, did projects and lit candles on the day of rememberance.

But not that i'm older (and no longer believe in God or religion) I realise that honestly, if Hitler hadn't been so narrow minded and racist, he could have been a great leader. And to many people, he was a great leader.

But it's not all about the Jews. 11 million people died in that war, weather it be fighting, saving or being tortured. It wasn't right, and what he made people go through (again, not only the Jews) was horrible and unforgivable.

He was a horrible man with a sick mind. But he knew what he wanted and did everything to acheive it. He had power, something that I can admire... but he didn't at all use it in the right way.

Yeah he could have been a great leader without his bad and sick ideas. I would even go so far and say that nowadays we would need such a strong leader who knows what he wants (dont missunderstand me, we don't need a racist leader).

FrancyPansy:

I would even go so far and say that nowadays we would need such a strong leader who knows what he wants .

I disagree. :shifty I think that's the problem with a lot of leaders today. They know what they want, not what the people they represent want. They mislead people with propoganda and force their beliefs on others all for what they want. Strong leaders are good, but they need to remember they're leading, not dictating.

I wrote up this whole argument on this yesterdday when I was folding the clothes... and i'm too lazy to re-think it and type it up. Haha.

But basically... I came to the conclusion that yes, Hitler was a horrible man. But he had power and knew how to use it, and he fought for what he truly believed was right. But still, that is no excuse for torturing 6 million people, 6 million people with lives, families, homes, friends... just like us.
And then, he left millions of other people scarred for life, hurt, abandoned, orphaned. That is unforgivable.

But to say that he has a cruel man with a cold heart would be a lie... he didn't have a cruel heart. He did what he believed. If he hadn't had been so narrow minded about things, then none of it would have happened.

Kurtni Von Teese:

FrancyPansy:

I would even go so far and say that nowadays we would need such a strong leader who knows what he wants .

I disagree. :shifty I think that's the problem with a lot of leaders today. They know what they want, not what the people they represent want. They mislead people with propoganda and force their beliefs on others all for what they want. Strong leaders are good, but they need to remember they're leading, not dictating.

LoL that was what I meant. If a leader just does what HE wants, then we have a dictator.

Most people know this, but he was an artist. A pretty good one in my opinion. His father got angry about his career choice and when his father died he tried to pursue his dream of being an artist. It didn't work out. I hate when people say something someone did sucked or they weren't good at it because they were a bad person. People gloat that he sucked at painting just liked he sucked at being a leader, when really he was an excellent leader, like previously said, and that he could draw and paint better than most people out there.

He believed that the Jews didn't help in the war and that they were all rich and didn't deserve all the money they had because they didn't help Germany in WWI. Though some of the Jews did help in the war I think it was just an excuse to hate them when he was just unhealthily jealous.

He was also very depressed most of his life because of his mother's death. But that still didn't give him the right to kill all those innocent people.

The only Jew he allowed to get out of the country was the Jewish doctor who helped his mother when she was dying. He only hated them because he was jealous. When Jews were taken into concentration camps and work camps the workers would take their crutches and canes for Germans who needed it, cut the womens hair for wigs for Germans, and take all their belonging to give to Germans who were less fortunate. He also killed gays, Slovakians, Ukrainians[I would die most likely;12.5%], Gypsies, the mentally disabled, Catholics[I would die], Jehovah's Witnesses, pacifists, radicals, and the violent oppositions, oh and Russians[Again I would get killed indefinitely]. He hated a lot of different people.

We discussed in class that in some ways people could argue that Stalin was worse because he killed people of his very own race and country.

Nazi's also did many experiments like if you injected a disease into one twin if the other was affected[I assume only identical twins]. He also would see how long it took for a person to freeze to death and how to resuscitate them. http://remember.org/educate/medexp.html
http://www.jlaw.com/Articles/NaziMedEx.html
All of this is just sick.

LivingInTheShadows:

He believed that the Jews didn't help in the war and that they were all rich and didn't deserve all the money they had because they didn't help Germany in WWI.

I don't think so. That's just what he wanted other people to believe so he could manipulte them. If the German public was turned against Jews, he could use them as a scapegoat to accomplish whatever he wanted. What he actually believed the jews did or didn't do was irrelevant in his scheme.

I think he was pretty much a genius. I'm not saying I like him, but you have to admire the admirable. I mean the man almost took over the world with almost no one stopping him. I don't know why he did it. I guess he took advantage of a bad situation and put a twist on it to make his dreams come true. I'd say the things he did were pretty bad.

Oh yes, he totally took advantage of the complicated situation back then. But you also have to see that the people did "let" him take advantage. If the whole (economic, social, ...) situation were better, maybe there would have been no need to listen to hitler's speeches because people would have been fine the way they were.

I think Hitler was an awful person, but there is no denying that he was extremly clever. If he hadn't been clever, he couldn't have manipulated people to do all the horrible things they did.

And after saying that, I have to tell this incredibly stupid thing about a boy I know. He thinks that he's funny when he walks around pretending to be best friends with Hitler, so he walks around saying thinks like "oh you know, my friend Adde" .__.
When are people going to realise that's not funny?

There is nothing to 'admire' about Hitler.
His one strong point was that he was a strong, manipulative man. That's 'admirable'?

He wasn't very clever, he was just manipulative. If you sit in a classroom for a year, listening to the same teacher repeating the same crap over and over again, eventually you're going to believe what he/she says. That's just the way it works, they tested it.

They put like, 30 kids who liked Jews and everything in a room. A teacher taught them that Jews were horrible, and after a certain time, they believed the Jews should die.

Hitler was manipulative, and he knew what he wanted. In no way should that be admirable to anyone.