Pornography

Xsoteria:

^I suppose you're right in a sense that the user sometimes can't tell if the actual film was consentual or not, but I still don't think that actual rapes stay on public porn sites for long. For starters, it's direct incriminating evidence against the rapist and in general shouldn't be in his interest to be accessible by everyone, site that hosts violent porn usually knows the consequences of having illegal videos on their domain, and therefore tries their best to publish videos they know are not real, there are a bunch of "public decency" internet groups scouring for just such material on the web, taking down real videos and those who publish it in the process and finally, the users themselves will often try and poke out the history behind a suspicious video to try and determine its authenticity, and once that information is acquired it spreads out pretty fast and there's always at least one person who has their conscience burdened and reports it.

Of course, I imagine if you dig deeper into Web, you'll find some real rapes, but they're not part of porn industry nor are they easily accessible by the public.

The assumption that anything that's illegal gets taken down from the Internet is pretty naive. There are a million different child pornography materials surfing around the web at this moment. Just because something hasn't been taken down yet and/or is easily accessible doesn't say anything about how legal it is.

I actually really like degrading, humiliating dubious consent porn for everyone who's saying how awful it is. It's not something I would do in real life, but something that I would in a perfect world, so why not watch it? And the videos I watch always have the girl smiling and waving after, saying how much fun it was. Some people enjoy weird things.

I'm not into pissplay, but if actors are willing and people want to watch it, that's fine. I'm not being forced to watch it.

druscilla smiles.:

I actually really like degrading, humiliating dubious consent porn for everyone who's saying how awful it is. It's not something I would do in real life, but something that I would in a perfect world, so why not watch it? And the videos I watch always have the girl smiling and waving after, saying how much fun it was. Some people enjoy weird things.

I'm not into pissplay, but if actors are willing and people want to watch it, that's fine. I'm not being forced to watch it.

Oh yeah because if you've been coerced into being filmed while dubiously violent stuff was done against you, you can't be coerced into smiling, waving and saying that it was all awesome fun.

Mr W. H.:

Oh yeah because if you've been coerced into being filmed while dubiously violent stuff was done against you, you can't be coerced into smiling, waving and saying that it was all awesome fun.

So are you against it in general or are you just against porn you can't prove was consensual?

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In the US on porn it includes the disclaimer that says all actors were over 18 and consenting. It's monitored. Beyond that, you can't really do much. You can assume they were lying on the disclaimer, sure. I only watch porn with a disclaimer. But if you assume they're lying on the disclaimer, you need to assume the FDA is lying on all medication they say is safe, that anything the government says is safe is automatically not safe, that cell phones are without a doubt going to give us brain cancer from radiation. Where do you draw the line?

Mr W. H.:

The assumption that anything that's illegal gets taken down from the Internet is pretty naive. There are a million different child pornography materials surfing around the web at this moment. Just because something hasn't been taken down yet and/or is easily accessible doesn't say anything about how legal it is.

I'm not saying that it all takes down where did you read that? I'm saying that most of it will be and it does. You can't just google child porn and get some. It's extremely hard to find because there are a lot of people working at all times looking for illegal content that they will get off the web.

If you care to remember, the original issue was that Internet was flooded with real rape porn and stuff. It's not. That's all I'm saying.

druscilla smiles.:

So are you against it in general or are you just against porn you can't prove was consensual?

I'm against the kind of fantasy that people like to build around porn because it's comfortable for them to think of it in that way. There are people who post footage of real events and there are people who watch it, it's not an issue that should be brushed under the rug.

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In the US on porn it includes the disclaimer that says all actors were over 18 and consenting. It's monitored. Beyond that, you can't really do much. You can assume they were lying on the disclaimer, sure. I only watch porn with a disclaimer. But if you assume they're lying on the disclaimer, you need to assume the FDA is lying on all medication they say is safe, that anything the government says is safe is automatically not safe, that cell phones are without a doubt going to give us brain cancer from radiation. Where do you draw the line?

Nobody has ever been charged with not complying to the regulations of the Child Protection and Obscenity Enforcement Act, mainly because the Department of Justice doesn't care enough about the matter to have regular checks on companies which produce porn, unlike companies which produce medical drugs which go through regular strict examinations.

Xsoteria:

I'm not saying that it all takes down where did you read that? I'm saying that most of it will be and it does. You can't just google child porn and get some. It's extremely hard to find because there are a lot of people working at all times looking for illegal content that they will get off the web.

If you care to remember, the original issue was that Internet was flooded with real rape porn and stuff. It's not. That's all I'm saying.

And all I'm saying is that the Internet is flooded with real child pornography all the time so saying that just because something is posted online it can't be real footage of a real abuse doesn't make any sense. Not that many people use Google to search for porn in general because it's incredibly easy to track down.

^And I'm telling you you're wrong. I don't know where you get the idea that Internet is "flooded" with illegal pornography, because it isn't. Of course there is illegal pornography on the internet, but in nowhere near the vast amount you seem to suggest. The reason is that there as not so many people who are willing to break the law by looking at illegal porn, and that people don't want to be prosecuted for hosting illegal porn, as well as substantial amount of resources tracking down sites that do host illegal porn and work on shutting down the mentioned sites.

Xsoteria:

^And I'm telling you you're wrong. I don't know where you get the idea that Internet is "flooded" with illegal pornography, because it isn't. Of course there is illegal pornography on the internet, but in nowhere near the vast amount you seem to suggest. The reason is that there as not so many people who are willing to break the law by looking at illegal porn, and that people don't want to be prosecuted for hosting illegal porn, as well as substantial amount of resources tracking down sites that do host illegal porn and work on shutting down the mentioned sites.

Unfortunately that's not true, child pornography is disastrously wide-spread, the UN Report of the Special Rapporteur on the sale of children, child prostitution and child pornography says:

The United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) estimates that there are more than 4 million sites featuring victims who are young minors, including even children under 2.
and
Thousands of new photographs and videos are uploaded on to the Internet every week and hundreds of thousands of searches for images of sexual exploitation of children are carried out every day. Offenders may possess collections of over a million images of sexually exploited children. It is estimated that 200 new images are put into circulation every day.

^That is by no means flooding of the Internet. Amount of information that is accessible there is ridiculous. Google offers over 800 000 000 porn pages, there are 200 million hits for stuff about dogs. 2.5 billion e-mails which contain pornography are sent everyday. Virtually any subject provides with millions of pages, hundreds of thousands of terrabytes worth of stored information or files. Not only are the numbers of child porn and violent porn significantly smaller when compared to most other topics found on the Internet, but they are also exaggerated in a sense that virtually all surveys and statistics are compromised by including written child pornography and violent porn, virtual childpornography and violent porn (cartoons or 3d image renderings), and numerous reemerging sites who dodge the authorities by domain swapping and alternating domain names and aliases.

There is a lot of illegal stuff on the Internet, don't get me wrong. But it is drowned in the ocean of information and is actively hidden most of the time. To say that illegal content on the Internet is easily accessible, that people stumble upon rape and child porn videos on a regular basis, that it's drowning in illegal content or whatever you are insinuating, is simply wrong.

Xsoteria:

^That is by no means flooding of the Internet. Amount of information that is accessible there is ridiculous. Google offers over 800 000 000 porn pages, there are 200 million hits for stuff about dogs. 2.5 billion e-mails which contain pornography are sent everyday. Virtually any subject provides with millions of pages, hundreds of thousands of terrabytes worth of stored information or files. Not only are the numbers of child porn and violent porn significantly smaller when compared to most other topics found on the Internet, but they are also exaggerated in a sense that virtually all surveys and statistics are compromised by including written child pornography and violent porn, virtual childpornography and violent porn (cartoons or 3d image renderings), and numerous reemerging sites who dodge the authorities by domain swapping and alternating domain names and aliases.

There is a lot of illegal stuff on the Internet, don't get me wrong. But it is drowned in the ocean of information and is actively hidden most of the time. To say that illegal content on the Internet is easily accessible, that people stumble upon rape and child porn videos on a regular basis, that it's drowning in illegal content or whatever you are insinuating, is simply wrong.

When you said "most other topics", you really meant "most other topics which are more popular" which is in itself a logical fallacy. You won't find hundreds of thousands of terrabytes about almost any literary text bar the Bible even if you include google books and academic journals websites. I doubt there are more than a thousand websites about Shakespeare, what's least lesser widely known authors and works. I can think of douzens and douzens of subjects which have at best 50 websites dedicated to them. And there's no such thing as written child pornography - you can go out and buy Lolita and nobody's going to arrest you for it. Child pornography websites get thousands, even millions of hits every month. To say that it's too petty and small an issue to matter because it hasn't affected you personally yet is simply wrong.

^I must admit it's very hard carrying a conversation with you. I usually try to keep on one issue and if the conversation evolves onto different subjects, I'd try and follow. But when you continually shift my point and the topic with each subsequent post, it's getting quite hard to do so.

Illegal porn is not all over the Internet. There are no floodings of rape and child porn. There's a lot of both, but they're not readily available for random people to stumble upon. Porn sites don't normally keep child porn as a valid category in their offer, nor do they host any sort of illegal videos knowingly, which is exactly why the suspicious videos will most likely get investigated or right out rejected.

Why do I say this? Well because this entire time, I had acorna's (I think) post you quoted on my mind. Where you questioned the rationality of assuming that rape porn is usually staged and fake.

Never once did I say that rape and child porn are too petty of an issue, or in any way insignificant, just that discriminating porn and porn industry based on their existence or on the imaginary fact that regular legal porn is mixed in with with it, is wrong.

Mr W. H.:

There are people who post footage of real events and there are people who watch it, it's not an issue that should be brushed under the rug.

What's wrong with posting real events? If I want to make a sex tape with my boyfriend and post it, why is that bad?

I, personally, don't see anything wrong with the porn industry. It's how some people make a living, however I do believe that all porn should be consentual. Unconsential sex is technically rape and therefore a crime. Otherwise people can have sex however they want!
There is also the problem with child porn which i think is wrong. I mean...even if the child has given consent should a 8 year old still be able to have sex with older people and it be recorded? Sex with a minor is a crime. And taping it is just exploiting them.
I think it would be best to leave porn to the porn industry but homemade porn should also be okay so long as it was consentual and not with children!
This is merely my opinion on it.

I don't see anything wrong with pornography. People who do it earn good money and some people enjoy watching it. The only problem I have is that I think it's too easy for younger children to access.

youmeathogwarts:

I don't see anything wrong with pornography. People who do it earn good money and some people enjoy watching it. The only problem I have is that I think it's too easy for younger children to access.

But that's also not the porn company's fault nor the actors/actresses. It's up to the parents to regulate that.

Xsoteria:

^I must admit it's very hard carrying a conversation with you. I usually try to keep on one issue and if the conversation evolves onto different subjects, I'd try and follow. But when you continually shift my point and the topic with each subsequent post, it's getting quite hard to do so.

It's fascinating how you feel the need to belittle me because you can't come up with convincing arguments.

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Illegal porn is not all over the Internet. There are no floodings of rape and child porn. There's a lot of both, but they're not readily available for random people to stumble upon.

And because the random people don't stumble upon them means they're nonexistent?

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Porn sites don't normally keep child porn as a valid category in their offer, nor do they host any sort of illegal videos knowingly, which is exactly why the suspicious videos will most likely get investigated or right out rejected.

So porn sites which host child pornography are not really porn sites? It must be hosted somewhere.

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Why do I say this? Well because this entire time, I had acorna's (I think) post you quoted on my mind. Where you questioned the rationality of assuming that rape porn is usually staged and fake.

Never once did I say that rape and child porn are too petty of an issue, or in any way insignificant, just that discriminating porn and porn industry based on their existence or on the imaginary fact that regular legal porn is mixed in with with it, is wrong.

It's not possible to discriminate against the porn industry seeing as they're not an oppressed minority group. You didn't say that rape and child porn are petty issues, just that we should ignore them when discussing pornography because they don't happen frequently enough to matter. Preventing sexual abuse is simply not as important as allowing people to enjoy pornography.

sometimes dru hurts.:

What's wrong with posting real events? If I want to make a sex tape with my boyfriend and post it, why is that bad?

I obviously meant real footage of sexual abuse. Not that sex tapes which were not meant to be publicized don't end up on the Internet all the time.

^First off, she was making a valid point. An argument that jumps around and has the terms completely defined by one person is extremely hard to discuss.

Secondly, the original post:

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And all the posts degrading rough/rape/molestation-esque porn... most of the time, it's not reality. Why on earth would rapists STAGE a porn video, creating evidence against them, and then post it on the internet? It's a ridiculous assumption to make, that all rape-porn is real. That's like saying all furry porn is by people who are furries, or that all gang-bang porn is with men/women who do that in their day to day life.
It's their job, and they (most of the time) have a choice.

Also, if someone enjoys watching porn, regardless of the type, it's rather offensive to say "If you come home from high school and watch a bunch of gangbang-internet-porn, you could have a problem," IMHO.
I wonder what you think of people in a healthy sub/dom relationship?

Note, please, that you didn't read very clearly.
Porn is often staged. It's very clear that it's staged.
Note, as well, that I said most of the time.

Xsoteria is agreeing with me. Most of the time, it's not real. It's just not. Real videos (for instance, home made sex tapes) are not fun to watch.

I was trying to point out that not all rape porn is real. Most porn is not real. I was also rather offended by the notion that people who enjoy watching said fantasies are messed up.

There's also so many people willing to do porn that it makes more sense to take the people who want to make porn rather than force people to do it. There's no shortage of people who want to and are willing to do porn. At least not in the Valley where, like 95% of US porn is made.

@MR W. H.

Wow. I said child porn is nonexistent? It's not porn? I belittle you?

Uh, I don't know what to say to that so I'll just sum up my point from the last 5 posts, hoping it will sink in better.

The fact that illegal porn exists does not mean that Internet is overflowing with it and that normal people who watch porn, are watching illegal porn cuz it's all mixed up on their porn sites. It's not.

acorna; eet:

Real videos (for instance, home made sex tapes) are not fun to watch.

Meh, that's debatable. Some people like it. In fact, for some people the fake staged porn / sex is a big turn off. Different people like different things.