Christians

@ dru is on fire.
This is an interesting one, because as a Christian, I don't think God is a man in the sky. Yes, Jesus was a man, but He is more than that.

@ The Pies Endure
I agree. I believe very strongly in conscious energy and think it's likely that is the "Mother/Father" of all creation (i.e., The Big Bang).

@ dru is on fire.
Well, I do differ in your view as I do believe in a creator God as the Bible describes Him, but he's not an old man with a beard in the clouds ;) lol. But, believe He created the universe through the Big Bang. [Sacrilege I know...lol]

@ The Pies Endure
I think "God" as He has been defined in the Bible is most likely wrong. I think "God" is more likely to be conscious energy. Therefore "God" could certainly have created the universe through the Big Bang in my theory because I think He is conscious energy.

It's weird trying to figure out your faith while pretty much rejected religion. Religion is what man says about the nature of God and I really don't think most of us have a clue, so I don't believe most of what Man has said about the nature of God.

@ dru's not growing up
That's an interesting viewpoint. I like to put it like this. God is the Father in the Creator God, of the Trinity. And Jesus came so that we can have relationship with God through Him. As that sometimes trite saying goes, "Jesus came to have relationship with us, not to create a religion." So, I don't see God as energy because He is a living, loving person. And energy can't have relationships. :-)

@ The Pies Endure
And I believe it's very possible for humans to have experiences with conscious energy and to develop a higher sense of understanding of self and the universe through exploration of energy, so I would have to disagree.

To me, I can't see how God could be a person. He is more. He also can't be male. I just don't see that being likely in a higher than everything being, that it would have a sex for biological reproduction unneeded to it. I think in order to be able to flow through EVERYTHING, you have to be energy.

I can't see God as a person because where does He live? I don't think Heaven is a physical place unless it's an alternate dimension or another state of consciousness, so I don't think he actually LIVES there behind the gates or anything.

@ dru's not growing up
I'll have to respectfully disagree. I don't want to have a relationship with something so seemingly impersonal. I view God as the loving 'Father' but I don't really see Him as a Him in the human sense, it's more just convenience to call God Him, because I don't see God as an It [And I still oddly see the earth as Mother Earth.../lol]. I also believe in Heaven because I believe in a bodily resurrection when the New Heaven and Earth is created after Jesus' second coming :). Though Jesus is God's Son. Again I can't see God as some kind of energy because energy can't have Sons.

@ The Pies Endure
Again, I would have to disagree it's impersonal. I see nothing impersonal about having a relationship with the conscience energy that flows through every living and non-living thing in the Universe.

It's interesting how we can view the same thing so differently.

@ dru's not growingp
It is interesting, aut not surprising really as I do believe in the Biblical God. :-) and that God is a person, not conscious energy. That sounds more like pantheism than anything that is recognisable as the Christian view. :-)

@ The Pies Endure
Pantheism is the theory that life was seeded from elsewhere in the universe, if I'm not mistaken. I guess you could say I believe The Big Bang lead to the creation of life in general. I have some theories about aliens/angels, though I haven't mentioned them in this exchange.

Christianity is really just what man has said about God. In trying to get to the true nature of God, I try to discount a lot of what man has said.

I guess I'm a spiritual Christian, not a religious one. I reject the basis of religion in general.

My thought on God vs the Big Bang theory is this:

Hey, maybe they're both right, hmm? God said "Let there be light" = HUGE EXPLOSION that started creation.

@ Long-Lost-Words
It couldn't work though because where would God have existed? There was nothing before the Big Bang. No space for God to speak.

Unless you go the route of 'science doesn't matter to God' but I think God and science go hand in hand.

---

I went back and found the video I mentioned before and typed out these two quotes because they so closely mirror my beliefs as well and, to me, this is a very good way to explain how I'm a Christian to people who just don't get it.

"The idea that god can be found in any human system, in any human creed, in any human book is beyond comprehension to me. God is not a Christian, god is not a Jew, etc. Those are all human systems which human beings have created."
This is why I put so little stock in the Bible. It's Man. It's all Man. Church is all Man. All organized religion and all religion in general is Man. I think all faith based systems are looking for the same thing.

"I don't think my tradition defines god, i think it only points me to God."
I'm a Christian because it's how I identify with the conscience energy I believe to be God. Since God is universal, I identify with the Christian God and that is my spiritual "tradition". I believe someone who prays to Allah prays to the same God I do.

Here is the link if anyone wants to watch it; it's about three and a half minutes long. I believe the speaker is a Bishop; I'm not sure of which denomination.

@ dru's not growing up
The thing though, is that Christianity is based on the person of Christ who was God in human form. I guess I just have to respectfully disagree with your views as I hold strongly to the main doctrines of Christianity.

As to the Big Bang, the way I see it is that God has always existed. He just is. And, He created space. He is beyond all human understanding, so for Him to exist outside of space and time may not make sense, but that doesn't matter. In my view at least. And that's why He is worthy of my praise and trust. :-)

dru's not growing up:

@ Long-Lost-Words
There was nothing before the Big Bang. No space for God to speak.

That's not necessarily true. Space time didn't exist as we know it... that doesn't mean there was nothing. Some BB theories say we may only be one of many universes that experienced a big bang, Stephen Hawking puts a lot of stock into "eternal inflation" theories. There is also Brane and Bulk theory which states colliding with other bulks sparks big bangs (not a good explanation, I don't really get that one...there is no Stephen Hawking netflix documentary explaining it. ). and studying pre-big bang physics is a growing, albeit, mind boggling and uncertain field.

If your god was created by something natural like everything else in the universe, is he really even a God? If your God can't exist in other dimensions outside of space time and is physically limited to the same world we are, that doesn't seem very all powerful, omnipotent and Godlike to me. Don't get my wrong, I agree with you that it's impossible for anything to exist like that, but to me, that says there is no possibility of a God.

@ Kurtni
Physics is really confusing, yeah. Thank you though. I'd heard the theories of other universe before, but I know so little about it that it slipped my mind.

As to the other point . . . the idea of an "all powerful, omnipotent God-like god" are all constructs by man. There's nothing to say that God would be exactly the way man created Him. That wouldn't really make any sense. I think if conscious energy as God is the God of this universe then why would it exist in another universe? I think conscious energy is God and I really don't think He needs to be this all powerful omnipotent being, just all aware.

@ The Pies Endure
Christianity is also a faith group that is supposed to help you obtain the ultimate goal of living with God in all eternity, though, is it not?

Jesus also exists in other religions. The existence of Jesus doesn't change anything about the nature of God. The nature of God existed long before Jesus walked the earth.

And, like, you said, God has always existed. Religion has not. Therefore there had to be something we don't know long before we started recording a religion to follow. It would be like saying gravity changed when Newton discovered it.

@ dru's not growing up
I see your points, but Jesus said He is the only Way to God. And only Christianity teaches this. And that is what I believe. And I notice how you write 'obtain the ultimate goal' the thing is, without faith in Jesus we can't ever hope to obtain that ultimate goal. And, sure Jesus 'exists' in other religions, but they don't see Him as the Son of God. And that's the point. If He wasn't the Son of God, then He couldn't save us.

dru's not growing up:

@ Kurtni
Physics is really confusing, yeah. Thank you though. I'd heard the theories of other universe before, but I know so little about it that it slipped my mind.

As to the other point . . . the idea of an "all powerful, omnipotent God-like god" are all constructs by man. There's nothing to say that God would be exactly the way man created Him. That wouldn't really make any sense. I think if conscious energy as God is the God of this universe then why would it exist in another universe? I think conscious energy is God and I really don't think He needs to be this all powerful omnipotent being, just all aware.

Then why do you choose to use the word God or Christian to describe those beliefs? To me that's like saying Unicorn is a false, man made concept, so I'm going to use the word Unicorn to describe something completely different. Wouldn't you want a completely different word/concept (sounds like you have one, conscious energy) to distance yourself from everything wrong and hateful about "God", or the Christian idea of God at least.

Those questions aren't really just for you, I don't mean to bombard you, but I don't get why people in general who believe in radically different things than mainstream Christianity want to keep labeling themselves as Christians. Usually they're liberal people, and I don't see why they want to hang onto a label that has such an oppressive, discriminatory history. Why not just say fuck it and do your own thing that accepts everyone and makes sense to you?

@ The Pies Endure
Actually, the Bible says Jesus said. We don't know that's what he said. We're just taking Man's word for it.

@ Kurtni
I'm honestly not sure. I've been saying for awhile I might not be a Christian when I did but I am right now. Spirituality is really complicated and it's not as easy as just saying "I don't believe I identify the way I identify". For some reason I still feel very strongly that I am a Christian. I can't stop. And I don't know why. It's kind of like my sexual orientation, I guess. I can't change it just because I want to or someone else wants me to. It's deeply ingrained into my thought process, brain, the way I view things, and the way I communicate with God.