Christians

druscilla; claus.:

Okay, so, Judas Iscariot.
I don't get it.
I mean, I know what the Bible says. I also know what the Gnostic Gospel of Judas says.
But I still don't get it.
If Jesus hadn't been crucified, then we wouldn't be able to be saved.
He had to die to take our sins upon Him.
So why is what Judas did a bad thing?
Shouldn't it be a good thing? Without Judas we wouldn't be able to be saved.

What Judas did was a sin because he betrayed Christ and betrayal - as well as lying in general- is a sin - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
The rest is a matter of time. Jesus already knew what Judas was going to before time itself was created - God is omniscient. Judas was not necessary in the sense that it was his destiny to betray Jesus - God just knew what was going to happen, everything has already happened for God - or rather He has no sense of continuity of time, a before and an after.

kafka.:

druscilla; claus.:

Okay, so, Judas Iscariot.
I don't get it.
I mean, I know what the Bible says. I also know what the Gnostic Gospel of Judas says.
But I still don't get it.
If Jesus hadn't been crucified, then we wouldn't be able to be saved.
He had to die to take our sins upon Him.
So why is what Judas did a bad thing?
Shouldn't it be a good thing? Without Judas we wouldn't be able to be saved.

What Judas did was a sin because he betrayed Christ and betrayal - as well as lying in general- is a sin - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
The rest is a matter of time. Jesus already knew what Judas was going to before time itself was created - God is omniscient. Judas was not necessary in the sense that it was his destiny to betray Jesus - God just knew what was going to happen, everything has already happened for God - or rather He has no sense of continuity of time, a before and an after.

I know betrayal is a sin.
But why is his particular sin so bad?

^Maybe because it was the betrayal of Jesus, that through him, Judas betrayed God and turned his back on him. That's might be what makes it so bad. :shifty

druscilla as a dime.:

Okay, so, Judas Iscariot.
I don't get it.
I mean, I know what the Bible says. I also know what the Gnostic Gospel of Judas says.
But I still don't get it.
If Jesus hadn't been crucified, then we wouldn't be able to be saved.
He had to die to take our sins upon Him.
So why is what Judas did a bad thing?
Shouldn't it be a good thing? Without Judas we wouldn't be able to be saved.

I guess you can say it was God's plan. Again. So it's not exactly a bad thing.
Like, for example, Peter. If he didn't deny Christ when he was asked if he knew Jesus or not, there would be no successor of Jesus. And besides, Peter denied Christ three times in one night while Judas was proclaiming Jesus innocent, and Peter ended up with the key to heaven.

Judas shouldn't be totally placed as a villain. He did the Will of God and fulfilled the scriptures, like Dru said, without him, Jesus would not have died to save your sins.

It was a bad thing because he denied and betrayed Christ. But, like everybody else, he suffered for his sins and when guilt caught up with him, he tried to return the money, but nobody wanted him so he threw it away and hung himself. There's really nothing more to it. Why this particular sin is bad? It isn't because it's just as bad as any other sin.

He was forgiven. He went to heaven.
Jesus said, ""For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother." (Matthew 12:50)
Ta-da.

sunshines:

^Maybe because it was the betrayal of Jesus, that through him, Judas betrayed God and turned his back on him. That's might be what makes it so bad. :shifty

Without it there would be no Christianity and we would still be sacrificing chickens and unable to go out while on our periods.

druscilla as a dime.:

kafka.:

druscilla; claus.:

Okay, so, Judas Iscariot.
I don't get it.
I mean, I know what the Bible says. I also know what the Gnostic Gospel of Judas says.
But I still don't get it.
If Jesus hadn't been crucified, then we wouldn't be able to be saved.
He had to die to take our sins upon Him.
So why is what Judas did a bad thing?
Shouldn't it be a good thing? Without Judas we wouldn't be able to be saved.

What Judas did was a sin because he betrayed Christ and betrayal - as well as lying in general- is a sin - You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
The rest is a matter of time. Jesus already knew what Judas was going to before time itself was created - God is omniscient. Judas was not necessary in the sense that it was his destiny to betray Jesus - God just knew what was going to happen, everything has already happened for God - or rather He has no sense of continuity of time, a before and an after.

I know betrayal is a sin.
But why is his particular sin so bad?

It's not 'so bad.' I think it's just bad as every other betrayal.
What made him the epitome of betrayal is that he betrayed the Son of God.

I think, even if Judas didn't betray him, God would have used someone to turn Jesus in.
But he happened to be a disciple, and he chose to do it... so, yeah.

druscilla as a dime.:

sunshines:

^Maybe because it was the betrayal of Jesus, that through him, Judas betrayed God and turned his back on him. That's might be what makes it so bad. :shifty

Without it there would be no Christianity and we would still be sacrificing chickens and unable to go out while on our periods.

I don't think that the actions of an -omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent- God that created Time -thus already knows past, present and future- really depended on the actions of one human being.
-shrug-
God knew how Judas would react perfectly, He knew what would happen. Jesus had every possibility to escape the death penalty - he could've ran away, beg forgiveness, admit He was not the son of God, etc. But He didn't.
John 15, 16:
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

I feel a little dumb coming in to this when y'all are in an intense conversation, but i just wanted to note...
What Kenskeet said: "(The thing you need to know is that this church is not like others. We hang out, goof around, listen to music, dance. There are no pews or dusty hymn books. It's contemporary.)"

Totally like mine too! Except, I'm usually the only one dancing.. it's such a small tight group, but that seems to make it even easier to accept newcommers. Actually, this is exactly like what church is like almost everyweek, in a sense. Although of course there is the serious side, too.

I recently strated considering myself a Christian. I've always had some realy anxiety issues, but when I pray to God, wholeheartedly believe that he's there for me, I just have such feeling of peace come over me that's hard to wrap your mind around.
I had been so depressed for such a long time, even though I had grown up in a Christian Church, and Christian home, and a Christian School. I had always considered myself a Christian, but when I started highschool, everything changed. i was really confused and just thought that the idea of a God was so hard to understand. But I went to this amazing retreat that really put everything in perspective for me. God has such a big plan for me. Only he knows what it is, and it's my responsibility to follow his will for me. He has done so much for me, it's almost uncanny. I look at some of the things that wouldn't have been possible for me without prayer. Whenever something gets me nervous or gets overwhelming, I just spend a minute in prayer and God takes care of the rest. I mentioned this feeling of Peace, and that is really what has helped me be able to consider myself a Christian. It's the fact that there is really no other way to describe the feeling I get when God is in my presence. There are some things I am still in the process of understanding, like Heaven and Hell and all sorts of little things that will take time.
But just now, knowing that God is what gets me through the day, that's enough for me.

^ Well, good for you. Ya never know, it could be life changing. ;)

I myself, am not a Christian or Catholic or.. anything Godly. I beleive in myself, and the power of music. Always have. Whole family's the same. :cute:

I'm a Christian because my family is.
I guess now I have to right to decide what I am,
but I realized I really am a Christian.
I just don't want to leave this earth, no matter where I go or what there really is, without having believed in something, and I chose God.
Clearly, science contradicts Christianity, but science is facts, and Christianity is a faith.
I have faith. I always will. It feels good to know that something is watching over me.

druscilla; fever.:

sunshines:

^Maybe because it was the betrayal of Jesus, that through him, Judas betrayed God and turned his back on him. That's might be what makes it so bad. :shifty

Without it there would be no Christianity and we would still be sacrificing chickens and unable to go out while on our periods.

I think the problem here was- Judas betrayed Jesus- not so that He would die for our sins, but because Judas was greedy and wanted the silver. He wasn't doing it to help anyone. He did it for his own selfish reasons.

Geesecks.:

druscilla; fever.:

sunshines:

^Maybe because it was the betrayal of Jesus, that through him, Judas betrayed God and turned his back on him. That's might be what makes it so bad. :shifty

Without it there would be no Christianity and we would still be sacrificing chickens and unable to go out while on our periods.

I think the problem here was- Judas betrayed Jesus- not so that He would die for our sins, but because Judas was greedy and wanted the silver. He wasn't doing it to help anyone. He did it for his own selfish reasons.

Depends on which gospel you believe.
Judas gets progressively more evil throughout the four books of the New Testament and the Gnostic gospels paint a completely different story.

Don't worry, just tell God what you just said, be real, he'll help you to have faith, but you know, you have to sacrifice. Whether sacrificing some of your time, or whatever is a sacrifice to you.

Judas did hang himself, and he did betray Jesus. Understand this, Judas was chosen, but in the end, he didn't choose God. And God gives us a choice.

Cresent_Moon_126:

Judas did hang himself, and he did betray Jesus. Understand this, Judas was chosen, but in the end, he didn't choose God. And God gives us a choice.

How do you know he didn't choose God?
In the end he regretted.
And depending on which Gospel you choose to believe, he didn't even betray Jesus. He just did what Jesus asked him to.

I'm a Christian. But in no particular denomination.

For example. I'm starting to believe every religion worships the same god-- under different names. That's blasphemy for most people. But if miracles happen for other religions, how easily can we put that off as 'evil spirits' masquerading under the guise of angels? How can we say our religion's not the same? What if we're wrong? Why can't we all be right? Why would God punish a 14-year-old Muslim girl to hell when she has never had any exposure to Christian doctrines?

I have lots more questions, and disagreements with traditional Christian faith. I don't believe in like half the Bible, for example.

The Way:

I'm a Christian. But in no particular denomination.

For example. I'm starting to believe every religion worships the same god-- under different names. That's blasphemy for most people. But if miracles happen for other religions, how easily can we put that off as 'evil spirits' masquerading under the guise of angels? How can we say our religion's not the same? What if we're wrong? Why can't we all be right? Why would God punish a 14-year-old Muslim girl to hell when she has never had any exposure to Christian doctrines?

I have lots more questions, and disagreements with traditional Christian faith. I don't believe in like half the Bible, for example.

I know this is a Christian thread - and I don't really want to hijack it by bring it up - but I'm quite curious as to where Atheists and Agnostics fit into your theory. Only because you state "What if we're wrong? Why can't we all be right?"
Obviously Atheists and Agnostics don't believe in God (Agnostics are probably sitting on the fence, rather) so what if they're right? Where does that leave you?
And if you think you're idea is correct - where does that leave people who don't believe in a God?

Just curious, I'm not trying to be rude or confrontational.

squiggles:

The Way:

I'm a Christian. But in no particular denomination.

For example. I'm starting to believe every religion worships the same god-- under different names. That's blasphemy for most people. But if miracles happen for other religions, how easily can we put that off as 'evil spirits' masquerading under the guise of angels? How can we say our religion's not the same? What if we're wrong? Why can't we all be right? Why would God punish a 14-year-old Muslim girl to hell when she has never had any exposure to Christian doctrines?

I have lots more questions, and disagreements with traditional Christian faith. I don't believe in like half the Bible, for example.

I know this is a Christian thread - and I don't really want to hijack it by bring it up - but I'm quite curious as to where Atheists and Agnostics fit into your theory. Only because you state "What if we're wrong? Why can't we all be right?"
Obviously Atheists and Agnostics don't believe in God (Agnostics are probably sitting on the fence, rather) so what if they're right? Where does that leave you?
And if you think you're idea is correct - where does that leave people who don't believe in a God?

Just curious, I'm not trying to be rude or confrontational.

Then there's no salvation for them. It's only yours if you take it, and most Agnostics and Atheists get to where they are by thinking about it heavily--and coming to a conclusion. Personally, no matter how messed up my beliefs are, I still can't deny that there is a God. I still believe that. So they don't fit anywhere in my theory at all, because it doesn't apply to them.

And if they're right, then it won't matter where I'm going. There's no hell or heaven, no afterlife, and we all just turn to dust when we die. End of.

He didn't choose God because he committed suicide.

Cresent_Moon_126:

He didn't choose God because he committed suicide.

And that means what exactly?
I'm a Christian.
I can't count how many times I've attempted suicide.