Abortion. #2.

Board index - Politics

Author	Message
Lil' Monster Member Age: 17 Gender: Female Points: 250	October 6th, 2009 at 01:13am The people who campaign outside abortion clinics, as Dru mentioned earlier, are being outright about it, which is at least better than the fake abortion clinics who are deceiving women until it's too late for them to have an abortion, thus forcing them into an unwanted pregnancy.
Xsoteria Member Age: 21 Gender: Male Points: 100	October 6th, 2009 at 01:14am sobre mi cadaver: kelseykillscliche: ^ But fetuses don't feel pain before the 24 week mark, correct? So they're providing more false information. Actually, during the Second month the nervous system and spinal column of the embryo develops, meaning that the embryo can actually feel. Actually, they don't feel pain before the second trimester.
lovecraft Member Age: 17 Gender: Female Points: 100	October 6th, 2009 at 04:33am Xsoteria: sobre mi cadaver: kelseykillscliche: ^ But fetuses don't feel pain before the 24 week mark, correct? So they're providing more false information. Actually, during the Second month the nervous system and spinal column of the embryo develops, meaning that the embryo can actually feel. Actually, they don't feel pain before the second trimester. How do we know? Do we have first person accounts of this? Or are we trusting it to science -which can be incredibly inaccurate-?
Dancing Caveman Member Age: 23 Gender: Female Points: 450	October 6th, 2009 at 04:58am Quote According to Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at UCSF, explains that fetuses are not able to feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation. This is because they have not formed the necessary nerve pathways that send pain signals to the brain. Even though fetuses begin forming pain receptors around the eighth week of development, the thalamus (responsible for relaying info into higher regions of the brain) does not develop until around the 28th week. Without signal transfer through the thalamus no information can reach the cortex for processing. Even though the information does not reach the cortex this does not mean that the fetus will not “respond” to pain. If stimulated with a needle the fetus will react, however that is a reflex that is mediated by the spinal cord and is not a conscious reaction. This effect is comparative to stimulating the limb of a paraplegic: reflexes will be observed however no pain will be felt since the connections to higher brain centers have been severed.
It's In The Blood. Member Age: 19 Gender: Female Points: 150	October 6th, 2009 at 11:07am dictionary: Xsoteria: sobre mi cadaver: kelseykillscliche: ^ But fetuses don't feel pain before the 24 week mark, correct? So they're providing more false information. Actually, during the Second month the nervous system and spinal column of the embryo develops, meaning that the embryo can actually feel. Actually, they don't feel pain before the second trimester. How do we know? Do we have first person accounts of this? Or are we trusting it to science -which can be incredibly inaccurate-? That's silly. Of course we don't have personal accounts - we can't ask the aborted foetuses. In a situation where it's not possible to have first person accounts, we sort of have to rely on what science tells us. It may sometimes be inaccurate, but it's a lot more accurate than the scare tactics used by anti-abortionists.
el sombrerero Member Age: 20 Gender: Female Points: 300	October 6th, 2009 at 06:52pm Xsoteria: sobre mi cadaver: kelseykillscliche: ^ But fetuses don't feel pain before the 24 week mark, correct? So they're providing more false information. Actually, during the Second month the nervous system and spinal column of the embryo develops, meaning that the embryo can actually feel. Actually, they don't feel pain before the second trimester. According to my Human Growth and Development book, the spinal cord and nervous system develop during the second month... if the embryo doesn't feel pain during this stage, then what's the purpose of the spinal cord and nervous system? Or does it simply develop but the nervous terminations are developed later during the second trimester? I also read that medical researches difer on this part, some say the second month, others say the second trimester, and others say until the third trimester, so is really hard to actually know this whether or not the embryo or fetus (depending on the stage) feels pain or not. However, I believe that the pain is just a survival skill... like, if the embryo or fetus senses some external danger, it might feel the pain in order to alert its body to combat the extertal danger. I hope that made sense; I'm not sure how to word it.
the moon and dru. Member Age: 22 Gender: Female Points: 600	October 6th, 2009 at 07:00pm sobre mi cadaver: According to my Human Growth and Development book, the spinal cord and nervous system develop during the second month... if the embryo doesn't feel pain during this stage, then what's the purpose of the spinal cord and nervous system? It has formed, but: Dancing Caveman: Quote According to Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at UCSF, explains that fetuses are not able to feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation. This is because they have not formed the necessary nerve pathways that send pain signals to the brain. Even though fetuses begin forming pain receptors around the eighth week of development, the thalamus (responsible for relaying info into higher regions of the brain) does not develop until around the 28th week. Without signal transfer through the thalamus no information can reach the cortex for processing. Even though the information does not reach the cortex this does not mean that the fetus will not “respond” to pain. If stimulated with a needle the fetus will react, however that is a reflex that is mediated by the spinal cord and is not a conscious reaction. This effect is comparative to stimulating the limb of a paraplegic: reflexes will be observed however no pain will be felt since the connections to higher brain centers have been severed.
el sombrerero Member Age: 20 Gender: Female Points: 300	October 6th, 2009 at 07:04pm druscilla is alice.: sobre mi cadaver: According to my Human Growth and Development book, the spinal cord and nervous system develop during the second month... if the embryo doesn't feel pain during this stage, then what's the purpose of the spinal cord and nervous system? It has formed, but: Dancing Caveman: Quote According to Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at UCSF, explains that fetuses are not able to feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation. This is because they have not formed the necessary nerve pathways that send pain signals to the brain. Even though fetuses begin forming pain receptors around the eighth week of development, the thalamus (responsible for relaying info into higher regions of the brain) does not develop until around the 28th week. Without signal transfer through the thalamus no information can reach the cortex for processing. Even though the information does not reach the cortex this does not mean that the fetus will not “respond” to pain. If stimulated with a needle the fetus will react, however that is a reflex that is mediated by the spinal cord and is not a conscious reaction. This effect is comparative to stimulating the limb of a paraplegic: reflexes will be observed however no pain will be felt since the connections to higher brain centers have been severed. Thanks for clarifying that; I didn't see that post So basically the fetus just acts on reflexes, not because it feels pain. That explains why I think that it's just part of survival skills.
kafka. Member Age: 18 Gender: Female Points: 100	October 6th, 2009 at 07:14pm Dancing Caveman: Quote According to Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at UCSF, explains that fetuses are not able to feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation. This is because they have not formed the necessary nerve pathways that send pain signals to the brain. Even though fetuses begin forming pain receptors around the eighth week of development, the thalamus (responsible for relaying info into higher regions of the brain) does not develop until around the 28th week. Without signal transfer through the thalamus no information can reach the cortex for processing. Even though the information does not reach the cortex this does not mean that the fetus will not “respond” to pain. If stimulated with a needle the fetus will react, however that is a reflex that is mediated by the spinal cord and is not a conscious reaction. This effect is comparative to stimulating the limb of a paraplegic: reflexes will be observed however no pain will be felt since the connections to higher brain centers have been severed. But then I don't understand how is it possible for people who were born at 22 or 23 weeks to grow up to be perfectly normal adults who can feel pain. Or does the nervous system continue to develop after you're born just like it did in the womb?
el sombrerero Member Age: 20 Gender: Female Points: 300	October 6th, 2009 at 07:24pm kafka.: Dancing Caveman: Quote According to Mark Rosen, an obstetrical anesthesiologist at UCSF, explains that fetuses are not able to feel pain until at least the 28th week of gestation. This is because they have not formed the necessary nerve pathways that send pain signals to the brain. Even though fetuses begin forming pain receptors around the eighth week of development, the thalamus (responsible for relaying info into higher regions of the brain) does not develop until around the 28th week. Without signal transfer through the thalamus no information can reach the cortex for processing. Even though the information does not reach the cortex this does not mean that the fetus will not “respond” to pain. If stimulated with a needle the fetus will react, however that is a reflex that is mediated by the spinal cord and is not a conscious reaction. This effect is comparative to stimulating the limb of a paraplegic: reflexes will be observed however no pain will be felt since the connections to higher brain centers have been severed. But then I don't understand how is it possible for people who were born at 22 or 23 weeks to grow up to be perfectly normal adults who can feel pain. Or does the nervous system continue to develop after you're born just like it did in the womb? Yes it does; throughout the first 6 years of life your nervous system, brain, and spinal cord continues to develop gradually.
coraline jones. Member Age: 14 Gender: Female Points: 100	October 11th, 2009 at 06:52pm I think that it's okay if the mother is absolutely positive that it's what she wants. I understand that the person is taking away someone's chance at living, but if that's their only choice and they wouldn't be able to take care of it anyway... what's the difference? I don't think it's any different if you take away someone's life or if you can't give them one in the first place. Sorry if that doesn't make sense, but, long story short, if you absolutely have to, then I guess it's okay.
It's In The Blood. Member Age: 19 Gender: Female Points: 150	October 16th, 2009 at 10:25pm Banning abortion only makes abortions more dangerous and kills women—which is what many opponents of abortion are after, really. They want people who have sex to be punished. Seventy-thousand woman die every year as a result of unsafe abortions in countries where abortion is illegal. So let's just say it, shall we? American opponents of reproductive freedom—people who seek to ban abortion—are trying to kill American women. The end. Guess what does reduce the number of abortions? Improved access to contraception. Dan Savage. Felt the need to quote it. http://slog.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/?page=1&author=259
elizabeth gaskell Moderator Age: 18 Gender: Female Points: 850	October 16th, 2009 at 10:31pm It's In The Blood.: Banning abortion only makes abortions more dangerous and kills women—which is what many opponents of abortion are after, really. They want people who have sex to be punished. Seventy-thousand woman die every year as a result of unsafe abortions in countries where abortion is illegal. So let's just say it, shall we? American opponents of reproductive freedom—people who seek to ban abortion—are trying to kill American women. The end. Guess what does reduce the number of abortions? Improved access to contraception. Dan Savage. Felt the need to quote it. http://slog.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/?page=1&author=259 Exactly. Also, the promotion of a healthier attitude to sex - people should stop treating it as though it's something impure or wrong. It's a fact of life and I think if we were more open about it, young people in particular would feel more able to access contraception without any sense of shame which would reduce the rate of unwanted pregnancies.
lovecraft Member Age: 17 Gender: Female Points: 100	October 17th, 2009 at 06:27am Bloodraine: It's In The Blood.: Banning abortion only makes abortions more dangerous and kills women—which is what many opponents of abortion are after, really. They want people who have sex to be punished. Seventy-thousand woman die every year as a result of unsafe abortions in countries where abortion is illegal. So let's just say it, shall we? American opponents of reproductive freedom—people who seek to ban abortion—are trying to kill American women. The end. Guess what does reduce the number of abortions? Improved access to contraception. Dan Savage. Felt the need to quote it. http://slog.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/?page=1&author=259 Exactly. Also, the promotion of a healthier attitude to sex - people should stop treating it as though it's something impure or wrong. It's a fact of life and I think if we were more open about it, young people in particular would feel more able to access contraception without any sense of shame which would reduce the rate of unwanted pregnancies. But the same people who are against abortion are the people who are against contraception and healthy sexuality. Sex should be treated like it's a natural thing, and that it is something that should happen. Contraceptives should be covered by health care, and available to everyone. We should probably also teach proper sex ed (not abstinence) in high schools. Sex is taboo, in an extreme way. Should prevention and awareness be the focus of anti-abortionists/pro-lifers?
And Sing Member Age: 24 Gender: Female	October 17th, 2009 at 10:19am morayah.: But the same people who are against abortion are the people who are against contraception and healthy sexuality. Sex should be treated like it's a natural thing, and that it is something that should happen. Contraceptives should be covered by health care, and available to everyone. We should probably also teach proper sex ed (not abstinence) in high schools. Sex is taboo, in an extreme way. Should prevention and awareness be the focus of anti-abortionists/pro-lifers? Where are you talking about? That's not the case in Australia. 1. Not all people against abortion are against contraception and healthy sexuality. Because it's not about healthy sexuality, it's about the 'life' of an unborn foetus... 2. Sex-Ed is taught as proper sex-ed in Australian school's as far as I know. Not just abstinence. 3. Sex isn't taboo in an extreme way. It was much more extreme back when our parents or our parents parents were young. Not now.
Chris Martin Member Age: 17 Gender: Female	October 17th, 2009 at 07:29pm I think that's what's wrong with most schools. I know my school doesn't teach sex ed. It's only abstinence. So you can't really blame a child who hasn't had a proper sex ed class with conceiving a child by accident if they're young. It's not their fault their school has an opinion about sex before marriage. Did they even have sex ed back in the 80s and 90s? Because those are the majority of women getting abortions now. If they were only taught abstinence, how do you expect them to react when they become pregnant? I mean, really...
veronika Member Age: 21 Gender: Female Points: 100	October 18th, 2009 at 03:25am kelseykillscliche: I think that's what's wrong with most schools. I know my school doesn't teach sex ed. It's only abstinence. So you can't really blame a child who hasn't had a proper sex ed class with conceiving a child by accident if they're young. It's not their fault their school has an opinion about sex before marriage. Did they even have sex ed back in the 80s and 90s? Because those are the majority of women getting abortions now. If they were only taught abstinence, how do you expect them to react when they become pregnant? I mean, really... I don't know, but to me it seems like you're assuming women who have abortions don't know anything about sex and have never been taught anything about sex... I think a lot of women know that sex can sometimes result in pregnancy. Of course sex education was around in the 80s and 90s. It was probably different to what it is now. And I also think it differs between places. In Australia, I would suggest most schools teach sex ed. In fact, I've personally never heard of a school over here teaching just abstinence in place of sex ed. In America it's probably different; it seems teaching abstinence is bigger over there. But even so, I don't think it's right to assume that women who have abortions are just clueless about where babies come from. Maybe a 12 or 13 year old who has never been taught about sex ever, but that demographic doesn't make up the majority of women who have abortions.
Dancing Caveman Member Age: 23 Gender: Female Points: 450	October 18th, 2009 at 07:04pm ^I don't think she's meaning that girls don't know that having sex can lead to a pregnancy, but that boys and girls aren't being taught about the contraceptives available or how to properly use them.
Chris Martin Member Age: 17 Gender: Female	October 18th, 2009 at 07:35pm Bardot.: I don't know, but to me it seems like you're assuming women who have abortions don't know anything about sex and have never been taught anything about sex... I think a lot of women know that sex can sometimes result in pregnancy. Of course sex education was around in the 80s and 90s. It was probably different to what it is now. And I also think it differs between places. In Australia, I would suggest most schools teach sex ed. In fact, I've personally never heard of a school over here teaching just abstinence in place of sex ed. In America it's probably different; it seems teaching abstinence is bigger over there. But even so, I don't think it's right to assume that women who have abortions are just clueless about where babies come from. Maybe a 12 or 13 year old who has never been taught about sex ever, but that demographic doesn't make up the majority of women who have abortions. I'm not saying that women who have abortions know nothing about sex...I'm saying that some teenagers who've never been taught about contraceptives and how to use them aren't entriely at fault if they become pregnant because they've never been taught how to use them and how they work. I'm from the US, so I'm not sure how it works overseas, but here if they teach sex ed, it's usually attached to a bigger lesson on abstinence.
Freaka. Member Age: 18 Gender: Female Points: 200	October 19th, 2009 at 07:23pm In my class they made us read out flash cards with STD symptoms and match it to the right one. We also had a lady come in with a phallus and put condoms on it. We didn't do it, she just showed us it. I live in one of the areas of the UK with highest STD/Teen Pregnancy rates, so they don't normally focus too much on abstinence.

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