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Kurtni O'Hara
Database Error
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 3354 | June 30th, 2008 at 07:28pm esoteric.:
Whether God exists or not gives man's existance reason or not. 
Why? |
d'ash
Wordsmith
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 12140 | June 30th, 2008 at 07:35pm Kurtni Monroe:esoteric.:
Whether God exists or not gives man's existance reason or not.
Why?
Well if we were created by some force for a reason (God, I mean) there exists that reason.
If not, we are - what - an accident, a mistake, a chance? Unimportant? Meaningless? If we are just like any other creature on the planet, then do we not have souls? Is there nothing after death? ... -shrug-
Belief in how life began, the force behind it, defines so much of how you see the world, that's all I'm saying.
(: and I don't wish to post anymore tonight because 12,000 is a pretty number.
Feel free to argue any point there though, Kurtni 
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Kurtni O'Hara
Database Error
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 3354 | June 30th, 2008 at 07:54pm esoteric.:
Well if we were created by some force for a reason (God, I mean) there exists that reason.
That's only one reason, it doesn't mean it's the only one. Shouldn't you create your own reason in life? Hypothetically speaking, if we were to somehow find out that there was no God, our lives would still continue on. You make your own reason in life and seek out your own purpose. esoteric.:
If not, we are - what - an accident, a mistake, a chance? Unimportant? Meaningless?
I think accidents and mistakes are things humans create, not natural occurrences. But, how important and meaningful your life is depends on you and the things you do with it.
and 12,000 is a nice number.  |
Lyzzla
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 320 | July 1st, 2008 at 01:24am sueno?:Some people think that the origin of their life, and life in general is a damn important thing.
God is the explication of that origin.
And I'm sorry for if you think that all religions consists just of following blindly something or someone. Because it's really not. I don't know where you've asked, who or what, but I suggest asking someone more accredited, a minister of some sort or someone with some theology studies.
That's not what I asked. I never said blindly following was all there was, did I? That's just the spotlight of my questions. Origin is important to some people...I never said I didn't get that. I asked you what was so damned important about believing in God and Jesus dying on the cross to God. I still haven't gotten an answer. I'm not bullying...I honestly do want your opinions and I honestly do want to hear a reason. I want God's logic behind it for as much as humans know. Or did he never give a reason?
And excuse me, but at one time I had a devout belief in God and the bible, and I can understand the love and sense of peace of mind and soul that comes with the whole damn thing. Quite frankly your assumption was a bit insulting. I know there's a lot more to it than blind faith, and once again I'd never said I didn't realize that. I'd never said anything of the sorts. Didn't even get close. I wasn't being a smartass...I'm looking for an answer. I'm sorry if it comes across that way. |
andILY.
Fanfic Fanatic
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 2952 | July 1st, 2008 at 01:03pm Lyzzla:
That's not what I asked. I never said blindly following was all there was, did I?
Actually you said,
Lyzzla:Following blindly is great and all...but to an extent. Initiative is one thing, but the reasoning behind his rule would be even better. Maybe if I found one religion with reasoning behind the ruling that made some sense and didn't travel in circles, I might follow it. All I get is this "thou shall not question" crap, and I'm pretty sure we were made to do that (made as in physically created. Not forced).
You said there is no reasoning in all religions you already know. I assumed that you have experienced Christianity. I also assumed that a religion without any reasoning behind it is ''following blindly''. Now my assumptions might be wrong.
Lyzzla:
Origin is important to some people...I never said I didn't get that. I asked you what was so damned important about believing in God and Jesus dying on the cross to God. I still haven't gotten an answer. I'm not bullying...I honestly do want your opinions and I honestly do want to hear a reason. I want God's logic behind it for as much as humans know. Or did he never give a reason?
I've already said why I think it's important for people to believe in a God. I don't think Christianity is necessarily the ''right'' religion, I accept all religions as ''right'' and important.
I don't think I understand exactly what you want me to tell you.
Lyzzla:
Quite frankly your assumption was a bit insulting.
I apologize, it was not my intention. |
Lyzzla
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 320 | July 2nd, 2008 at 02:49am ^^If that's how the statement was taken by you, then I'm sorry. But, I haven't ever stated or felt that all there was to religion was following blindly. I was talking about one part when I was asking, not the whole thing.
There are different extents of following blindly in the context that I'm asking. Why God thinks we should believe in him would still require me to follow blindly. I'd still have no evidence. I'd just know why he wants me to follow. If I were given a reason as to why God has decided that it's an important thing to believe that Christ died on the cross...then I could follow. If he doesn't have an intelligent answer when I ask why, then why should I be expected to follow blindly? It's like telling someone they're grounded and not giving them the reason.
Let me rephrase that entire question haha. =] Is there anything within a religious document stating why God thinks it's important for people to believe in him, or that Jesus dies on the cross? I want to know why God finds it so important that it's unforgivable if you don't believe and you won't get into heaven because of it. You could be denied right after a murderer gets in, in some religions. I'm curious as to the logic behind that from God's perspective. Because it just doesn't make sense to me. |
Piccolo the Great
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 335 | July 2nd, 2008 at 05:18am Lyzzla:^^If that's how the statement was taken by you, then I'm sorry. But, I haven't ever stated or felt that all there was to religion was following blindly. I was talking about one part when I was asking, not the whole thing.
There are different extents of following blindly in the context that I'm asking. Why God thinks we should believe in him would still require me to follow blindly. I'd still have no evidence. I'd just know why he wants me to follow. If I were given a reason as to why God has decided that it's an important thing to believe that Christ died on the cross...then I could follow. If he doesn't have an intelligent answer when I ask why, then why should I be expected to follow blindly? It's like telling someone they're grounded and not giving them the reason.
Let me rephrase that entire question haha. =] Is there anything within a religious document stating why God thinks it's important for people to believe in him, or that Jesus dies on the cross? I want to know why God finds it so important that it's unforgivable if you don't believe and you won't get into heaven because of it. You could be denied right after a murderer gets in, in some religions. I'm curious as to the logic behind that from God's perspective. Because it just doesn't make sense to me.
Firstly, from a Christian standpoint, it's a bit immature to assume that you know God's logic. Part of believing is realizing that He works in mysterious ways that no human could ever, ever understand. Even the ones who think that they know Him best.
And I'm sorry, but if you're so set on denying the existence of God, then there is no evidence I can give you, except what's already passing before your face every day. (Ooh... I know that sounded insulting, but it wasn't meant to be)...
To answer your questions, it's easy (obviously, for Christians) to see why God wants us to follow Him. He wants us to be happy; He wants to protect us, to cherish us. But it always feels better for the human if he/she understands the great need of that reliance. God provides everything that we could ever need.
Jesus suffered and died on the cross--the most horrible execution imaginable in those days--to display the ultimate love: a Father giving up His only Son--who had lowered Himself from His throne--in order to save everyone else in the world from sin. To become a living (and dying) proof of God's love for everyone.
And I don't think that you have to believe in God to get into heaven. What about Gandhi? Surely you don't think that that man was cast into hell, do you? |
andILY.
Fanfic Fanatic
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 2952 | July 2nd, 2008 at 10:44am He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
Mark 16:16
Why would you get in a Heaven that you don't believe in?
Modern Christian -Orthodox- teaching says that after death everyone will be judged according to his or her own religion. So if you don't believe in anything, I suppose your soul will just... stop existing. Because that's what you believe. But the first circle of Dante's Hell comes to mind again...
By the way there are many arguments in favor of God's existence. Too many to mention actually, our debate would just turn into a boring listing of philosophical arguments. But I could list some just so you see that I'm not lying.
It's not following blindly, rather logic assumptions. I wasn't much of a believer until a year or so ago when I read some things and found out everything makes perfect sense.
And see Piccolo the Great gave you the answer to why Jesus had to die on the cross. To save humanity from sin and open the doors of Heaven again after Adam and Eve's exile. |
Lyzzla
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 320 | July 2nd, 2008 at 08:50pm Piccolo the Great:Lyzzla:^^If that's how the statement was taken by you, then I'm sorry. But, I haven't ever stated or felt that all there was to religion was following blindly. I was talking about one part when I was asking, not the whole thing.
There are different extents of following blindly in the context that I'm asking. Why God thinks we should believe in him would still require me to follow blindly. I'd still have no evidence. I'd just know why he wants me to follow. If I were given a reason as to why God has decided that it's an important thing to believe that Christ died on the cross...then I could follow. If he doesn't have an intelligent answer when I ask why, then why should I be expected to follow blindly? It's like telling someone they're grounded and not giving them the reason.
Let me rephrase that entire question haha. =] Is there anything within a religious document stating why God thinks it's important for people to believe in him, or that Jesus dies on the cross? I want to know why God finds it so important that it's unforgivable if you don't believe and you won't get into heaven because of it. You could be denied right after a murderer gets in, in some religions. I'm curious as to the logic behind that from God's perspective. Because it just doesn't make sense to me.
Firstly, from a Christian standpoint, it's a bit immature to assume that you know God's logic. Part of believing is realizing that He works in mysterious ways that no human could ever, ever understand. Even the ones who think that they know Him best.
And I'm sorry, but if you're so set on denying the existence of God, then there is no evidence I can give you, except what's already passing before your face every day. (Ooh... I know that sounded insulting, but it wasn't meant to be)...
To answer your questions, it's easy (obviously, for Christians) to see why God wants us to follow Him. He wants us to be happy; He wants to protect us, to cherish us. But it always feels better for the human if he/she understands the great need of that reliance. God provides everything that we could ever need.
Jesus suffered and died on the cross--the most horrible execution imaginable in those days--to display the ultimate love: a Father giving up His only Son--who had lowered Himself from His throne--in order to save everyone else in the world from sin. To become a living (and dying) proof of God's love for everyone.
And I don't think that you have to believe in God to get into heaven. What about Gandhi? Surely you don't think that that man was cast into hell, do you?
Oh for the love of crackers. I haven't assumed I know God's logic. I don't think I know God's logic. Either my communication skills really suck, or you're taking most things I'm saying completely out of context. I'm curious about the logic because I don't know what it is. Explain to me how curiousity is immature, please. I don't know his logic. I'm stating it loud and clear.
I'm not set on denying God's existence! I want answers that I'm not getting. I'm purely open to God...I'm questioning. I'm not just going to run around following like a sheep. I think it's nieve, and quite frankly I think it's irresponsible if you don't even have the reason why God wants you to do it.
Let's clarify that I have a very loose idea of God and my religious beliefs/lack there of. I'm a spiritual person, and I don't agree with the general perception of God. I do believe in God. I don't believe in the God that most people do.
I still haven't gotten the answer to my question...so I'm assuming there isn't one. I don't know how else to word it for you. You gave me half an answer...so I'm assuming that's all you were given and that's all I'm getting from this.
Please take my words at face value or explain to me what I'm doing to make myself completely unclear. Cause I'm trying to communicate the best I can here. Onbviously I'm doing a very poor job. |
Lyzzla
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 320 | July 2nd, 2008 at 08:54pm sueno?:[i]And see Piccolo the Great gave you the answer to why Jesus had to die on the cross. To save humanity from sin and open the doors of Heaven again after Adam and Eve's exile.
That's not the question I was asking. The question I was asking is why God feels that it's important for you to believe that to enter heaven. I was asking why it is of that much importance that murderers would get into heaven and you wouldn't because of that one thing. Am I not making any sense? Maybe this just sounds good in my head.... |
Venomous.Vampire
Writer's Block
Age: 14
Gender: Female
Posts: 68 | July 2nd, 2008 at 09:26pm i believe that there is a higher power but the idea that it has a gender is ridiculous and so i can't really believe the bible but i know that there is something out there. |
andILY.
Fanfic Fanatic
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 2952 | July 2nd, 2008 at 10:05pm Lyzzla:sueno?:[i]And see Piccolo the Great gave you the answer to why Jesus had to die on the cross. To save humanity from sin and open the doors of Heaven again after Adam and Eve's exile.
That's not the question I was asking. The question I was asking is why God feels that it's important for you to believe that to enter heaven. I was asking why it is of that much importance that murderers would get into heaven and you wouldn't because of that one thing. Am I not making any sense? Maybe this just sounds good in my head....
Who said murders go to Heaven?
Murderers who believe and repent go to Heaven. People think it's easy to repent, that you'll just say ohh sorry I didn't mean to kill him. Well it's not like that. I don't think God's that stupid, you shouldn't either.
Also believers pray a lot for forgiveness, so their sins are forgiven. Non-believers don't. So they have a lot more sins than believers. Of course I am not God so I couldn't tell you where non-believers go when they die. |
andILY.
Fanfic Fanatic
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 2952 | July 2nd, 2008 at 10:07pm Venomous.Vampire:i believe that there is a higher power but the idea that it has a gender is ridiculous and so i can't really believe the bible but i know that there is something out there.
Who said God has a gender? We just use he because it's more neutral than she and it would be awkward. The English language needs to invent an other pronoun for God.
|
ChesterImbalanced
Wordsmith
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 10051 | July 3rd, 2008 at 11:56am sueno?:Venomous.Vampire:i believe that there is a higher power but the idea that it has a gender is ridiculous and so i can't really believe the bible but i know that there is something out there.
Who said God has a gender? We just use he because it's more neutral than she and it would be awkward. The English language needs to invent an other pronoun for God.
No one says God has a gender. We were taught to say Godself instead of he or she. |
andILY.
Fanfic Fanatic
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 2952 | July 3rd, 2008 at 12:19pm ChemicallyImbalanced:
No one says God has a gender. We were taught to say Godself instead of he or she.
Really?
I've never heard of Godself but it's an interesting idea. You learn something new every day.
|
Lyzzla
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 320 | July 4th, 2008 at 02:52am dolencia.:Lyzzla:sueno?:[i]And see Piccolo the Great gave you the answer to why Jesus had to die on the cross. To save humanity from sin and open the doors of Heaven again after Adam and Eve's exile.
That's not the question I was asking. The question I was asking is why God feels that it's important for you to believe that to enter heaven. I was asking why it is of that much importance that murderers would get into heaven and you wouldn't because of that one thing. Am I not making any sense? Maybe this just sounds good in my head....
Who said murders go to Heaven?
Murderers who believe and repent go to Heaven. People think it's easy to repent, that you'll just say ohh sorry I didn't mean to kill him. Well it's not like that. I don't think God's that stupid, you shouldn't either.
Also believers pray a lot for forgiveness, so their sins are forgiven. Non-believers don't. So they have a lot more sins than believers. Of course I am not God so I couldn't tell you where non-believers go when they die.
I don't mean to seem bitchy...cause that's not at all how this is meant...but am I not goting to get an answer to my question, or am I going to continue to be corrected about things that I already understand and am not being completely politically correct on? |
Piccolo the Great
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 335 | July 4th, 2008 at 03:40am Lyzzla:That's not the question I was asking. The question I was asking is why God feels that it's important for you to believe that to enter heaven. I was asking why it is of that much importance that murderers would get into heaven and you wouldn't because of that one thing. Am I not making any sense? Maybe this just sounds good in my head....
Lyzzla:I don't mean to seem bitchy...cause that's not at all how this is meant...but am I not goting to get an answer to my question, or am I going to continue to be corrected about things that I already understand and am not being completely politically correct on?
Well, you've asked a very hard question, my friend. =]
To get inside the mind of God--hmm... that would be difficult, wouldn't it?
But I think that God deems it important enough to believe all of that because of many reasons. Some understandable, some not.
With a belief in His presence, we are humbled day by day. Think "gosh, there's really something out there much bigger and better than I'll ever be. I've got to start improving myself." Plus, if you (and I mean "you" in a general sense) didn't believe in Him, than what business would you have trying to get into Heaven? God helps those who help themselves, you know? You have to want the privilege to enter, just like that murderer must genuinely want that forgiveness. (Of course, he/she would be forgiven anyway, but... that doesn't mean that his/her actions can go unpunished).
*sigh* I really need a priest for this one. I guess you just never fully understand until you do. (I know, I know... more of this "following blindly" stuff you were talking about). We follow God, because we want to. Because He gives us everything. Because He loves us beyond compare.
It's important to believe that, because it's important to love and be loved in return.
But still, I believe that any truly good person can enter Heaven. Even if he/she is an atheist. Because by showing kindness to someone else--anything else--you show kindness to God.
(I'm sorry if I can't give you the answer you're looking for. I hope that you'll eventually find it on your own, dude). |
Kurtni O'Hara
Database Error
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 3354 | July 4th, 2008 at 03:41am Lyzzla:
I don't mean to seem bitchy...cause that's not at all how this is meant...but am I not goting to get an answer to my question, or am I going to continue to be corrected about things that I already understand and am not being completely politically correct on?
She can't answer that seeing as how she isn't god.  |
andILY.
Fanfic Fanatic
Age: 16
Gender: Female
Posts: 2952 | July 4th, 2008 at 09:05am Kurtni Monroe:Lyzzla:
I don't mean to seem bitchy...cause that's not at all how this is meant...but am I not goting to get an answer to my question, or am I going to continue to be corrected about things that I already understand and am not being completely politically correct on?
She can't answer that seeing as how she isn't god.
Well take it the other way around if you wish, what do you think should be or are the ''requirements'' for getting in Heaven? |
Lyzzla
Cliché Catastrophe
Age: 15
Gender: Female
Posts: 320 | July 5th, 2008 at 12:09am sueno?:Kurtni Monroe:Lyzzla:
I don't mean to seem bitchy...cause that's not at all how this is meant...but am I not goting to get an answer to my question, or am I going to continue to be corrected about things that I already understand and am not being completely politically correct on?
She can't answer that seeing as how she isn't god.
Well take it the other way around if you wish, what do you think should be or are the ''requirements'' for getting in Heaven?
I think earlier I'd thrown it out there that if it were mentioned in the bible it could be an answer. Is there a passage about any of that...or are we left to assume? I didn't think she was God. =]
"Requirements" for heaven...hmm. That seems like human thinking to me quite honestly. And if God wants us to get in so bad...then why would he make it simple to fail if you do one thing he doesn't like? I don't think he would. Anyone who is as loving and forgiving as God is supposed to be can't possible be the judgmental ass that tells people to rot in hell. I refuse to believe it. I don't think there's a requiremtn because I don't think there's a right way at life. I don't think anything is black and white, and I think God made it that way on purpose.
I donno...requiremtns are iffy depening on perception. What you think it should take to get into heaven depends on how you percieve life. I honestly think most things we think God wants were completely man made and used as a controlling device thousands of years ago that's still working. We're here...that is proof of God to me...I'm just not the conventional Christian...I'm not even sure I'm a Christian. Anyway...I'm done babbling about what I believe. I have a lot of my own beliefs, and I figure if God can't forgive me for using the brain he gave me then I don't want in his heaven anyway. That's just my personality though.
Okay. Now I'm done. =P
If anyone does have a bibale passage or anything though to answer the question I had...I'd love to hear it. |
