Women in Video Games: Consumers and Representations - Comments

@little motorkitty;

Think what you will, but I am not implying that. I am just stating that I don't see that problem, but I see how other's might. That's fine, we wouldn't be friend's anyway by the looks of things O_O I do apologise, but that is my view. -shrug-

@sobre mi cadaver

I think you should continue to push for that, it sounds like a good idea. My mother actually studied in that field, however she was dealing with the way women were treated particulary during the 17th century, and in native societies.
More literature does need to be brought to the table, It would be brilliant to see more light brought to the subject, especially by an actual girl that play's games.

I don't know about the whole feminism thing, I've only been exposed to the extreme side, scared me right off. I'm happy with how I am treated, I laid down the law with my male friend's, haha. I guess I am a lucky one

@ Tholomew Plague
It's not a "rape victim card" it's stating a FACT so how dare you insinuate it's anything else. Congratulations for you being able to get over it but not everyone is that lucky. Your entire logic is "It doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother anyone". After you saying that, I'm done with this conversation and would be quite happy to never interact with you again because despite claiming to not be out to offend you do a very good job of it.

@ Tholomew Plague
There's a lot of studies turned down about this, sadly; I actually submitted a research proposal through the department of sociology; I had 3 faculty members backing me up for support [economic support included] and the PROVOST office turned it down because there isn't enough literature on the subject which was the main purpose of my proposal, to add to the small number of literature on the topic I think academia doesn't look at it as a social problem yet; I mean, only until like 2008 classes were added to curriculum of Sociology, Anthropology, and Social studies degrees with this form of mass media at the university I go to. I think it will take time in order for this to be viewed as a major issue, just like the advertisement industry, TV, cinema, and music industry are viewed as on those same areas of study.

I understand you don't view yourself as a feminist; on the part of you will never understand feminism, well we basically just want equality and by doing this privilege needs to be noted by everybody in order to make changes. I'm all for women and men equality in society, no matter their race, ethnicity, nationality, socioeconomic status, sexual orientation, gender expression and identity, whether they are able-bodied or not, etc. That's pretty much it.

@sobre mi cadaver

Sorry, I did read everything that was posted, I just thought it was a valid point. That is all.

I still think more studies should be done. Everytime I see one of these studies, I go "hmm, nobody asked me" It needs to be bigger, to include as many people as possible.

I have played as a dude online, even set my profile as a dude and I received the same amount of abuse.

Anyway, Fable is not a good example in my book, as you can even do the fingers, it's not exactly a PC game, especially when it's targeted at teens and there are hookers on the street corners, same with GTA. I grew up expecting that sort of thing, so it's not a big deal for me. (Again, due to me non PC raising, It's a crucial explanation about my feelings on this issue)

I am not a feminist, so i don't know. Obviously this is something that all you feminist's need to figure out how to fix, because it's going to take a lot of work. I suppose it could be done, if there was enough effort thrown behind it.

FYI; I do get triggered by them saying that sort of stuff. But I have moved on. It doesn't make me upset. Sure it make's me relive it, but I will for the rest of my life anyway, I think about it everyday, them saying something or not isnt gonna change that.

Either way, I am leaving this argument now. I have nothing decent to add, I am not a feminist, I will never understand the way of feminism at all. No point in me clogging up the comments. I do hope something get's done about the serious abuse though, and good luck and all that.

@ Tholomew Plague
No, it needs to be singled out what's happening to women because this article is exactly about that. Please do not derail the topic because this is the precise sort of comments I get on any other forums whenever something about women is discussed. Yes, abuse also happens to men on the gaming community, but is not as pervasive as it is with women (as the studies done by scholars that I referenced here point out). Women are 3 times more likely than men to be spewed with verbal abuse (if you read that article you'll actually see what type of abuse is most common [sexual harassment]). If you want to start a thread about male gamers and how the hyper-masculinity exploited in video games affects them, by all means; I would love to participate in something like that, too, but please do not do this to this article because this is for women issues.

To a rape victim, perhaps not to you, but to other ones that sort of abuse can be triggering. Trauma does not just happens in one context and it will never be relieved in others because they're not the same; trauma brings forth triggers, post traumatic stress, panic attacks, hallucinations and delusions. That you are not going through them does not mean that other victims don't.

The support system in Mexico is not that great, to be honest. You are left on the line countless times; your reports don't get reviewed and when they do they are dismissed, and the only thing left to do is to block the person. Some countries manage their support systems differently (sadly, because it should be a general one; the amount of racism that I have encountered is as much as the amount of sexism).

The issue with the armors is that we are given such little options because these are made to appeal to men (read the male gaze mention on this article); the target population is that 19% mentioned in the article and developers (who are in their majority men) aim to appeal to that audience (as well as older men). If we were given options (like the male characters are given [ffs, I could go around in a tongue in Fable as a man or be covered from head to toe in an assassin's armor, but the women assassin's armor is just ridiculous and I might as well be naked on the game]) then there wouldn't be an issue with the type of clothing women are made to wear in video games.

There are reports; there are documented statistics; all of these articles are posted on gaming forums and communities, on the developers' pages, but they are always met with hostility. Both the objectification and sexualization of women as well as the hyper-masculinity that is attributed to men in the video game industry need to change; I completely agree on that, but they do not steam from similar social issues. The idea that men need to be these macho guys who don't cry or show emotions roots down to traditional gender roles, a thing that feminism is trying to fight because from those they also come the idea that women need to be submissive to men. It is more pervasive and harmful for women because this is exactly what they are fed by mass media; we have such small amount of representations of women that it always falls under these categories; whereas men have more options to look up to.

@little motorkitty;

Don't play the rape victim card, because I am a rape victim. Okay. It seriously bother's me. A verbal threat of rape, and the actual rape is a completely different story, especially when the person has no clue who you are, or how to find you.

I have worn the forsworn armour, and frankly, I have seen worse, as I have stated, no one forces you to wear that armour. It is native armour, based off tribes. Do you have an issue with people who wore clothes like that in history? I should hope not. It's supposed to signify their culture as 'natives', not sexualising it. This is ridiculous, in my opinion. I can understand how it COULD be seen that way, but that's not how the intended it to be seen. People make their own decisions and thought patterns based on what THEIR mind leaps to.

I am not telling you to go elsewhere, but there is mute buttons. As stated before below by me, People need to make note's of all the players who abuse them and report them consistantly. And as also stated, I am surprised that your country's support system does not take it seriously.

Also, I never said this article was a bad idea, do not try and twist my words. What I am saying though, is that the people who abuse you on those platform's are not going to read this here are they? Effectively, it is only reaching out to other abused people, not said abusers. And In all honesty, do you really think they care if our feelings get hurt? Male gamer's get just as much abuse, it's not simply a female thing. The focus need to be on general abuse, not just singling out that it's happening to women.

I think it's time that someone made a submission (anon) to players on all platforms, and gather information on how much abuse they have sustained, as well as some more fact's on the matter and stick it before the actual gaming companies and see if they are willing to work out a solution. We need to hear from all gamers, not just girls. It's not fair if the system can be fixed, but only for females.

That is the logical way of doing this, if you want change. I personally, see no issue with a bunch of pixels wearing fur bra's. Of course I understand why some people do, but I don't. I have also noticed, that male character's are sexualised as well, but no one seems to touch on that. Why are all male character's mostly attractive and buff? It works both way's.

Obviously you think I am out to offend, I will say one last time that I am not. You may take offense if you like, that's your decision.

@ Richey James
Jumping in on the off-topic thing, yeah, it's been proven that Anita ripped the clips of other YTers gameplay of those games.
And there are videos that have revealed she's said she's a gamer but another where she said she doesn't play video games.
It's all very confusing and I can't trust a word that woman says, to be frank.

She really didn't say anything new either, agreed, and I feel as if that Kickstarter money went to waste; people who donated
to her should be disappointed and angry about it.

@ Tholomew Plague
Guess you've never worn the forsworn armour then in Skyrim. Because guess what? That's not a mod and it's fucking ridiculous. And I've played on Xbox, PlayStation, Steam and MMO's like WOW and recieved the same treatment everywhere.

Also "All I am saying is, maybe it's time to start doing something about it instead of crying about it."? Excuse me? How exactly do you know that I don't do something? I've reported things countless times and nothing ever happens. You're basically saying if I want to not get abuse I need to go somewhere else which is incredibly problematic. How about maybe, just maybe, we write articles like this, educate people and get people to stop thinking it's okay to shout abuse at someone. You really think a rape victim is gonna be okay with being told they're gonna be raped?

@sobre mi cadaver

I don't mean to imply that you are just complaining, I understand this completely. There shouldn't be any abuse on the recreational level, it's against their policies. That mean's that they are clearly at fault for that. I do understand where it's coming from in the fact that they won't sell game's that won't sell well.

With the new consoles coming out, XBOX is charging more for developers to have games on their, which will cripple them and the developers. PS4 will be the next big thing, as they are charging less and take abuse more seriously.

I think the way to go with this, is to contact the board that deal's with these sorts of issues. There is one, I just can't remember their name. They deal with all sort's of cyber bullying. All you have to do is provide them with the person's username/gamertag and check their profile for their area.

There does need to be a stronger stance taken on abuse on XBOX. I myself avoid using my headsets someday's. However I do think that people saying "Oh you played a crap game" isnt really abuse, so they should be okay. But the people that flat abuse the hell out of you should be banned from playing on the server's for at least 48 hours.

I can't believe they haven't taken your complaints seriously though, although it depends on what country you play in. The New Zealand branch of XBOX is very prompt in dealing with abuse issues and they are great.

I am amazed that some branches don't seem to take this seriously. I think I may write in a submission to XBOX NZ and see what they reply with, as I'm sure they don't know of the problem, and they will pass it on, they have done so for me before about a particulary abusive player who told all women on headsets that they should of been aborted. Bleh, people disgust me, although I like the friendly ribbing on there.

I think they also need to limit the age for online play, and stick younger play's into different servers. The people that abuse me are usually under 15. That say's alot of the world today...

@ Tholomew Plague
I also play on Xbox Live; I have reported, wrote articles about it, follow activists who do the same sort of critics, but the industry does not see these changes as profit (as I mentioned on the article) because they believe that making games with accurate representations of women who are not only there for eye-candy or in the typical tropes will not sell (despise that we, women over 18, are the fastest growing demographics in the industry). Right now the portion of the industry that is actually doing changes are the independent developers; people who see the problem and see the movement and want to do something about it. I love indie games, sadly, the industry does not sell them because they think they can't profit from them.

I am highly bothered, though. We all react in different ways; I am listed as recreational; I don't go "looking for it" because that places so much blame on the person at the receiving end of abuse. I am an actually great player on Halo and, like ptvjaime mentioned, I have played as a dude with a perfect English, as a girl with a perfect English, as a man speaking in Spanish and broken English, and as a woman doing the same thing. I got more shit for being a Mexican girl talking Spanish and occasionally talking English; I got threats, people submitting incredibly negative reviews about me for talking back to them, and now I really never use my headset because I get incredibly self-conscious. I do not react well to abuse and I don't think I should quit playing on the level that I want because I might be subject to it.

That we are "complaining" (rather discussing, really) this on the internet does not mean we are doing nothing but nagging.

@little motorkitty;

Well I play Skyrim, and I know for a fact that those armours are mods, not released straight from the developer, so they can't be blamed. Its the consumers on that fault. If you want to cosplay, you can always choose the full body armour, which most people do. Cosplaying is not really the point here though is it.

I am sorry that happened to you, but the fact of the matter is, how am I supposed to comment on something that I haven't experienced. I don't know what game's you are playing online, (I don't play Halo/WoW/Steam) games, I play on Xbox live, so maybe it's more that particular gaming community than the whole community itself.

Yes, alot of the character's are clothed 'sexily' but at least there are woman character's in games for us to play. I don't know. I take abuse and serve it back, I'm not scared of some guy half way across the world telling me he's gonna rape me (Yes it has happened, but I don't really give a crap, I take abuse very well) If you have an issue with it, report that user on whatever platform you are on. That's what those report buttons are there for. The gaming community won't change if the user's don't actually report abuse players to the company.

People got so abusive on Runescape, that the company actually looked at all the report's sent in, and started going through and emailing user's saying that if they had one more transgression, they would be banned from the game (their IP address) And it worked for the most part.

Report, and write emails to the gaming companies, otherwise they don't even know there is a problem. I myself don't take issue with sexily clad females in games, because the fact of the matter is; none of it is real and you CAN customise your character not to look like that. I get this completely, and yes I understand some 'girl gamers' get flak for BEING girl gamers, but It all depends on the community you play in.

Another example; I myself, play in Underground mode on Call Of Duty. Underground means I WILL be abused, but I choose to play in Underground. If I wanted to not be abused, I would set my settings to 'Family' or 'Recreation'. Developers have put a whole bunch of things in place to stop abuse against gamer's and no one utilizes these tools.

Again, You will still think i'm ignorant and whatever, but the fact of the matter is; It will never change unless you stand up and write to them, report abusive user's and generally look out for one another as girl gamers. It seems some people seem to meet the majority of 'dickhead' gamers, I myself, have only met two, and they didn't stay in the chat room for long once I started serving it back to them. A lot of other male gamer's also came to my aid. All I am saying is, maybe it's time to start doing something about it instead of crying about it. No offense intended, although you probably may see it as offensive. (I'm not very PC and I apologise)

Nice article. Slightly off-topic, but only because you had the image and a quote from Anita Sarkeesian, but I was really disappointed in Tropes vs Women. It was such a fantastic idea for a project, with such a triumph over whiny gamer dudebros who tried to campaign against her. I only ever watched the first two videos of hers and they just seemed like... nothing new? It really did not seem like she played the games the kickstarter money paid for at all, or if she did, she really didn't look too far into them. It felt like a summary of, "okay, this character in this game is a sexist representation of women, and this bit is sexist and so is this," without any explanation at all. It was very surface-level, unfortunately.

Otherwise, this is a well-researched and well-executed article. x

I've played RPG as a female and a gay man and got less crap as a gay man. That was a pretty big eye opener for me though the level of sexual harassment was about the same. Playing as a male, other men would actually let me lead teams and respect my experience as a player whereas, as a woman, I was given almost no credibility and ignored by teams despite having more experience than most of them.

@ Tholomew Plague
I agree with Lee. I've been threatened for being a girl playing video games, been told I shouldn't enjoy it. A status I posted about liking video games went viral a couple years ago. I had thousands of people telling me I was a fake gamer just because I was a girl, telling me to go kill myself, telling me they were going to find me and rape me- all in graphic detail. Just because I dared to be a girl who likes video games. There's also the fact that most girls in games are ridiculously sexualized and in tiny skimpy outfits, even if it makes no sense. Like a fur bikini 'armour' in Skyrim. So if I want to cosplay as them I need to dress scantily and then end up being told I'm a slut for doing so.

It's incredibly insulting that you say it shouldn't change just because you haven't experienced it because it trivializes everyone else's experiences and struggles.

@ Tholomew Plague
Yeah, everybody's experiences with it is different. I have had been threatened, told I should be raped because I beat his team (by myself ) on Halo Reach multiplayer.

I honestly hope the industry DOES change, because not caring for issues like this is pretty much accepting the way that women are treated in video games and in the gaming community and that is not acceptable.

A very good article.

Although I have only had a few experiences of sexism whilst playing games online. Most of them are just 12 year old boy's saying that I suck at this game, when actually I am better than them and it's apparent by my score, so I ignore it. If it get's bad, another male gamers (usually older) step into the argument and tell the younger person to piss off. I have never really had an issue with it though. I am one of those people that enjoy the online argument's that come with being a girl gamer.

I have noticed over sexualisation in some video games, but it doesnt bother me. It's nice to even have the option of playing as a girl character.

In short, I have never experienced this problem on a high scale, only small, and in the end I personally don't give a damn. I think that the gaming community will never change, and I don't really want it to.