"I write for myself. Where are the readers?" - Comments

This made a lot of sense because I have seen that some of my stories are more popular than others. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying new ideas or fandoms. I try to improve my writing with each story I post. You made some excellent points and unfortunately there are people who don't like hearing what they are doing wrong so they strike out at the person who tries to help them.

Can I offer you my praise?
My love?
Admiration?

I love to write. There aren't any words to describe how much (ha, ironic, huh?). It's nice to get subscribers and whatnot, but I believe that if you write out of pure enjoyment it counts more than the amount of recognition you receive.

@ Usako
I assure you, you were NOT the person I was thinking of as I wrote this.

Again, if I'm not talking about you, generalizing my statements doesn't make any difference in your meaning. I have never denied a part of my fame is because I write Frerard. But a lot of my readers like my writing because of my style of writing, not just because it's Frerard. So no, not "a lot" of my fame is because of my genre.

This is a difference of opinion. Most people on here are looking for fanfiction, not original fiction, but they still love to read. So those looking for original fiction are a "pool." To say there's a great chance that someone that doesn't want to read original fiction probably doesn't like reading in general doesn't even make sense on a site like this. I love reading; I have a huge collection of books, but I only read fanfiction online. But taking my preferences out of the equation, I don't understand how someone that only reads fanfiction doesn't like reading.

I don't think I'm that popular--it's that simple. Popularity is a subjective subject. I'm glad you think I'm popular, but being rec'ed on two reclists doesn't make me popular. It simply means two people who have reclists read my stories and liked them. I never said I wasn't popular; I said I'm not that popular. (That is you generalizing my statement and leaving out key parts.) And considering I limit myself willingly to only the My Chem fandom, I couldn't list five for the fact I'm not a part of the community. Can you name five famous anime writers? How about five famous Avatar writers? Yeah, me either, because they aren't my thing.

I don't know what to say then. I have readers that read anything I write for the simple fact I wrote it. Not because it's Frerard, not because it's a part of a series or any other fandom related reason, they read it because they are "fans" of mine. Out of my all readers, I only know who maybe a quarter of them are.

I have no desire to post a non-Frerard. I do plenty of writing that is original fiction, but it's to have published. If I post it online, I can't have it published.

I see things in black and white; it's part of who I am. This is another difference of opinion. "I write for myself," and "I enjoy writing," are two different statements to me.

I clearly said I'm not the authority on the matter, that I'm no one to look to. I can only tell you what I do. I don't know why people like my writing; I struggle with that myself. I have been around and around that tree with my therapist. I have asked people close to me why they enjoy it. I have left comment prompts in the author's notes on my stories. The only answer I get is they like how I write, but no one can articulate how I write. I don't know why I have readers that read everything I post. All I know is that I write in a way that feels natural to me and people read (and like) my writing. I appreciate to pieces the readers I have. (I even close all of my author's note "Hugs and love!") I wish I could tell you "do this, this, and this, and readers will come," but I don't know the answers.

This is the point we need agree to disagree. I am not going to change your views on any of this, and you aren't going to change mine. If you want to hash out my writing and the how, what, and why's of my and your writing, I am happy to do so through PM. But I can only offer you my opinion; I have no definative answers. I am not trying to make enemies with you. I truly, from the bottom of my heart, wish I could help you because that's who I am; I want to help everyone. I apologize that I can't give you the answers you seek.

@ Miz Erie The reason I was asking if this was directed at me was because this journal is almost a word-for-word rebuttal to my reply to you in my blog. That is and was why I was asking you.

And I think that the fact that you left out key statements to my argument, which lead to such generalization, makes a huge difference in meaning. I said, "You can't really deny that you get a lot of your fame because you write Frerard. As a MCR fan, I know that "ship" is in high demand. Shoot, I think that's the most popular pairing in the whole bandom" I did not deny that you work for some of that fame; however, you cannot even try to cover up the fact that much of your fame is from the genre you are writing for and in.

To me, OF doesn't really have a pool. It's just called readers in general because that is what original fiction is, like Lord of the Rings, The Catcher in the Rye, and The Scarlet Letter. If somebody doesn't want to read original fiction, there is a great chance that they don't want to read fan-fiction either because they probably just don't like reading.

Even though you are not "widespread" popular like Bexless perhaps. You can't tell me that you aren't popular because you have been recognized and you have been recclisted by more than one person. To me, that is pretty popular. Tell me, can you name five famous original fiction writers online? I'm not talking about published authors, no; just ones online.

As for appreciating my story commentators, no, it doesn't help me. I start brand new and fresh every time I have a new story. My old readers do not carry over from my old stories. And shoot, sometimes I don't even know who my readers are (if I even get any) because they don't comment. I think my most popular story only has 10 subscribers with 40 readers (and I don't even know if that because I think readers are just counted as any one who looks at the page).

Again, I really disagree that people don't already have emotional connection to your versions of Gerard and Frank. This emotional transference is psychological, and it does not matter how "far off" from the real versions they are. They are still face claimed by Frank Iero and Gerard Way, which reels readers in. And I dare you write a story that has nothing to do with Frank Iero, Gerard Way, or MCR and see if you get the same feedback. If you get the same response, I will back off on that point. But until then, however, I still think the author that pointed this out has a very good point.

But I do write for myself, as well as for the acknowledgement. I've been doing this since I was in the third grade, and to remember the feeling of somebody actually enjoying my (at the time badly written) story still rings with me today. I LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE APPRECIATE MY WORK. Shoot, if I didn't write for myself, and seldom for the acknowledgement I would have quit a long time ago (obviously). My stories get little readers, comments, and subscribers, so doesn't that really kind of blow a hole in your theory there? Nothing is so black and white. Even the greatest of writers wants to be acknowledged for what they do, even if they do write for themselves. There is nothing wrong with doing both of them. It's not an either or situation.

And this frustrates me yet, you still are not helping me on how to get more readers and the what not. You say that you just let your "story speak for itself", and that you don't promote it whatsoever, so what am I doing wrong then? I think my stories are rather unique in appearance and plot; it's not the same boy meets girl cliche. By that standard I should have more readers than you, shouldn't I? You don't really do anything, while here I am working and working to get my writing out there but to no avail. You said to ask people with readers for help, and I asked, but you are not really helping at all. You are telling me what you aren't doing as opposed to what you are doing. I think if I were to stop promoting and just let "my story speak for itself" then I would have nada in the reader department.

@ MusicTrans
I do know what my characters are going to look like, but I still have to make sure I'm staying true to whichever era I'm using. And I get how that makes it easier. But not having to research? I beg to differ! My characters are not the same; I research personalities and responses for all my characters. And considering I have several with mental health issues, I have to make sure I have facts straight and write the character correctly. I DO have to research my characters. And that goes for their backgrounds, families, etc.

My chaptered stories average about three hundred readers and my oneshots a little over two hundred, but I only have the same dozen or so that comment regularly. I understand the comment struggle. Most of my frustration comes from people expecting readers to do anything, though.

If you ask for help, you can't be offended when someone gives you advice. If one of my children are having emotional problems and I take them to see a therapist, I can't turn around and get defensive towards the therapist because she/he said my child has *this* problem and should try to *this* about it. Of course being told something negative hurts--especially when it's something as personal as your writing--but you should try to use that criticism constructively.

I get asked a good bit for help. It's not always about getting readers, though; I get asked about grammar, descriptions, sex scenes (I write explicit sex.)... just about writing in general. I used to do a good bit of beta work, but I've had to stop doing that.

I'm about the same with my stories; I allow the story to draw people in and "word of mouth" to advertise for me. As for promoting stories on other stories, that's against Mibba rules actually, so yeah considering I'm a Story Editor, I don't go there often; when I do, I try to make it relevant to the story it's being promoted on, and I'll only promote it once.

I feel like you have valid and invalid points. Like, I started off writing fan-fictions and then went into original writing, so I understand both sides of a fan-fiction writer and an original fiction writer.

I understand what you mean about making a fan-fiction relatively yours, but I feel fan-fictions are a little easier to work on- for me personally- because there's less research since you already know what the characters are going to look like and you already have a general feel of how the characters are going to act. With original stories, all your characters are being pulled at random with their names, looks, desires, personalities, family backgrounds, etc. And people do have certain tastes in stories, especially in fandoms. There are more GeexFrank stories than I can count half the time I look up MCR stories and very few with OCs.

When it comes to readers and commenters, well that's a problem for every story on here. Stories can be amazing and have over a hundred readers, but only a few people who comment and possibly three people who comment regularly. It's something we all struggle with, but I don't see how people can be silent readers and expect others to comment on their stories. I comment on nearly every story I read and throw a mini party when someone takes the time to comment on my stories

As for the "yes, but"ing, I can understand your side and the other person's. You want to help, but to every author their story is their child and it's a natural instinct to get offended when people say something bad about it just like it's a natural reaction to feel proud when someone says something nice about it. I got a comment on one of my stories from the comment swap, and the person told me- after only reading the first chapter- that they didn't like the amount of dialogue and what-not. Instantly, I didn't like the person and wanted to be rude, but after thinking about it, I took her words as something to help me with my other stories.

When you said, "If you want more readers, talk to those who do have readers and see what they're doing." I honestly kind of chuckled since I HAVE gotten that question. A lot of my friends asked me how to get more readers and I (and many other authors) just have no idea how to obtain readers. I just put it out there and hope ONE person reads it and comments on it. But in the same aspect, if someone asked me to promote a story of theirs on my stories, I would. Sometimes asking "popular" authors to promote your stories can help.

@ Usako
I was not talking about any one specific person. I have tried to be helpful to quite a few people, and I am always met with the same type of response, hence the generalized points. I'm not being passive aggressive either; I was simply venting my frustrations and opinions.

I took nothing out of context; I spoke about how I interpreted what is being said. It's simply a difference of opinion. And the way you replied to my "popularity" was that I'm popular because I write Frerard, which is not entirely the case. When I first started writing, I had very few readers. I believe OF has a pool, too. There are people that only read OF; that is a population. However, I do admit that some reader bases have more people in them than others; I have never disputed that fact. But just because one population has more readers doesn't mean that a story of that type is necessarily going to have more readers.

Popular writers are people that readers know by name. In the MCR fandom, Bexless is a popular writer. Readers recognized her name without having read her stories. I highly doubt anyone knows who I am other than my readers. (If someone steps forward and proves me wrong, I'll retract my statement of not being popular, but until then, my beliefs hold true.)

I'm not making anyone out to be ungrateful. I am just stating that those are things I do to help keep my readers. I'm making an assumption here, but based on what you say, I'm guessing you let your readers know that you appreciate them; does it not help you retain readers? I have seen over and over people asking for readers, but when people comment, the writer does nothing to acknowledge them. I've had readers tell me that part of why they like my stories so much is because they like how personal I get with my readers; I know readers like that, so I want to give that knowledge to others.

I don't believe my readers approach my stories with attachment to any of my characters, I just don't. My characters are so off from what I believe the real Gerard Way and Frank Iero are. I build my characters the same way any OF writers does. I simply use Gerard and Frank's faceclaims. Because I am writing fanfiction, I will pull different elements into the story, but those are superficial, like Frank liking Twizzlers. But most of my stories could be posted as OF if I simply changed the character's names and appearances.

The statement about Frerard readers reading anything is the most common thing I hear. I agree with you; I don't understand why the cliche stories have more readers than more original fanfic or OF. I put a great deal of effort into researching a story idea before I start writing it to make sure I'm not copying another's idea or writing something done a million times before. I put a great deal of effort into making sure my stories are realistic and believeable. So why does some knockoff cliche fic have readers coming out of the wall cracks? But I know for fact that not all readers will read anything with a Frerard label on it. (I personally am very picky about stories I read.)

I never once identified a particular group of people; just as you were venting frustrations, so was I. The problem with stereotypes is that people get clumped together who don't always belong. Yes, I am a Frerard writer, but I'm not a stereotypical Frerard writer; that doesn't stop people from labeling me and treating me stereotypically. There are always exceptions. My comments were generalizations; I know there are people that the comments don't apply to, just as some of the comments you made about FF writers don't apply to me.

We all write for ourselves on some level; as you said, it is human nature. I want my work to be acknowledged, too, or I wouldn't post it online. I have said many times that the best comments are the one that say "I connect with this character so much because..." or "I feel *insert emotion* for this character." It means I did something right, wrote something well. I completely understand what you're saying. However, to simply state "I write for myself," but then beg for comments is a contradiction; I stopped saying I write for myself upon that realization.

Again, my post wasn't directed at any particular set of writers. Sadly, though, many of the blog posts are written by people have have done very little to help themselves and reject any advice that requires them to do something.

I will double check, but I'm pretty sure I avoided "all or none" statements in my blog; I didn't make comments about "all writers" or "no writers" except as a part of idiomatic statements.

I sincerely apologize if you felt I was directing this at you personally. Anyone who knows me can tell you I am not afraid to speak my mind, and if I wanted to pointedly address your reply to my comment, I would have done so directly. This blog was honestly a reply to the generalization of all the blog posts I see coming across my My Mibba page nearly everyday and the replies I have received (sometimes rudely) to my advice.

As for how to get an OF recognized, I can only tell you what works for me, a FF writer, as I have done. I don't use promotion threads ("pimp your story" or whatever they're called) or anything like that. I seldomly promote my own stories; I depend on my stories to speak for themselves or my readers to recommend my works to others. (I have been listed on a couple of reclists, but those give links to a different writing site I'm on.) I do have a few links in my signature, but considering how little I use the forums, I'm sure that does me little good.

Why do I get the feeling that I'm one of those people you are talking about? Maybe it's because half of the "points" you gave are my own points from my reply to you, of course more generalized. I never said your opinion was unwelcome or invalid; I was arguing with you and debating. And to be honest, you didn't offer help; you offered observation and reasoning. Those are different things. This is pretty passive-aggressive of you.

You write one of the more popular fandoms
You are again taking out of context what I said. I replied to the fact that you have readers and are popular to begin with; you have a fandom pool to pull from. You have a population to draw from. Original fiction writers don't have this to fall back on.

You have a lot of readers/subscribers/get a lot of comments. or You are a popular writer.
Isn't this a bit hypocritical to say that you get a lot of comments/subscribers/readers, and yet you aren't "popular"? What is the definition of popular to you then? As compared to many unknown original fiction writers, you are popular. There is no doubt in that at all. Nobody is asking for you to be ashamed of your writing; heavens no. That would be stupid and disrespectful to even ask.

I, too, have honed my writing skills for over seven-eight years now. Shoot, I love the readers I do have too pieces. Don't make us original fiction writers out to be so ungrateful.

You have the luxury of having "premade" characters/settings.
As another original fiction writer said in my own blog on the matter, you have the luxury of people being already connected to "your characters." Original fiction writers do not have this. They have to build the foundation from the ground up. Sure, Gerard may not have been a rapist, or Frank a victim, arguably so; however, the fans of the bandom are already connected emotionally to the real life Gerard Way and Frank Iero as a base. They have a connection to them already, and there is already a "house" per se to build on. This emotional connection transfers to your own versions of them. It pulls them in like a hook.

Frerard readers will read anything.
You generalized my statement from the blog. I gave you an example of situations I have seen, and that makes me the epitome of sad. Plagiarized Frerards get more publicity and feedback then an "original" Frerard or, needless to say, an original fiction story to begin with. A fan-fiction of Frank Iero being the new "punk" kid who helps out the oafish and struggling with his sexuality Gerard cliche gets loads of readers, while a more riveting story does not? That frustrates the bazookas out of me! I think, perhaps, it has to do with a mix of getting dull feedback ("this is great; plz update") among other things.

As for the rest of it, thanks for the lovely connotation on me, as well as other original fiction writers on here. I am trying to put in the hard work of getting my writing known, but nothing I am doing is working. Hence, my journal about my frustration.

For one, on here my comment swap feature has been down for months, so strike that out as getting help. I've asked for help on the matter, but to no avail. I've posted links to my profile in multiple places, as well as links to my stories. It's almost the point I feel that I'm more annoying than anything else in this whole world.

As a writer, I do write for myself. I love to do it, but I also love to be acknowledged. That is human nature. As said, I love my readers, commentators, and subscribers because my work is being acknowledged. For once, I am not a ghost. I don't share my writing in the "real world" due to death-defying shyness and perfectionism, so this is the only place I do it. To see somebody enjoying it means that somebody enjoys my passion and my love for writing. Somebody enjoys my writing skills and somebody actually cares about my story as much as I do.

Shoot, I'm really irritated you painted us in this light. We aren't "free loafers" expecting to get noticed right away. I'm not stupid. We have to work for it in more ways than one.

In closing, I will ask you again, what would you do to get an original fiction out there?

@ Katie Mosing
I'm not a saint. I'm simply loudly opinionated. Hahaha. But I've started avoiding them, too. I figure if people want my opinion, they know how to PM me.

@ flutter.
@ clitorectomy
@ daisuki desu.
@ little sparrow.
@ dr. faustus
@ Rocket Queen
Thanks, you all!

@ o3o.
I do acknowledge that some types of stories get more attention than others. My particular niche as a writer is not the most popular, as I write mostly rapefics and other types of dark stories. But I know that some people don't appreciate reading about one of the pair getting raped or beaten or being abused. With my novel I'm working to have published, I know that the audience for it is going to be small; I know it will never be a Best Seller simply because of it's subject material. My point is that you can't complain about the lack of readers when you write something that's not going to appeal to a wide variety of people.

As for comments, you can look and see that I mostly get the "Great update! More soon!" kind of comments as well. (For example, my latest story has 12 comments; all of them are like that!) I have only rarely received a critical comment. Instead of trying to get people to come to me, I went to others, people I wanted to be like, and asked them what I could do better. But even then I had to take what I could from different people. One of my now good friends is a highly popular writer on a site I'm on, and I know she doesn't like explicit material; when I talked to her, I knew part of her advice was that she didn't need to know all five sense of detail, but that is a subjective opinion. I and many of my readers appreciate my level of description. No matter who tells you what, you still have to figure out what is best for you; you still have to learn your own style. No matter what, you have to be proactive.

@ Neon_Skies_Killjoy
I agree. If someone subscribes to your story, they must like it enough to want to read more. If they recommend it, they are sharing it with other people, meaning they think it's good enough for their friends to read. Every subscription and recommendation is a compliment!

@ santi santi
I remember when I broke a hundred readers for the first time on a chaptered fic; I was elated! That story now has WAY more readers than that and still has more than a hundred subscribers, even though it's been complete for a while. But it took me a LONG time to get that many. And a lot of those readers are people that found me through my other stories and went looking to see what else I had written.

I generally read only completed stories. I'm not always the best commenter either, not knowing what to say, but I try to let the writer know what I liked about the story. Was their writing very articulate? Did I connect with a particular character? Why that character? What scene in the story did I like the most? Again, why? I have quit trying to leave critical comments unless I'm asked "What could I do better?"

Thank you!

I have that conflicting feeling, too. I want the readers and the comments, but at the same time, it doesn't matter much to me. It took a while for me to get a good response from my weird stories. It took A LOT of bad stories of mine to get a good, nice number of people to like a story of mine.
I try to read others stories as well, but I always end up becoming busy and end up not finishing them. I'm guilty of being a silent reader as well; I usually don't know how to critique a story that's already written so amazing well. I'm so terrible at giving criticism as well.
But you've hit the nail on head with this.

In Jesus Christ, Amen! Had to do it. Some of the complainers have over 100 subscribers and they complain. But to me, subscribers and reccs are like my way of saying, hey.
Hey you.
Yeah, this is a good story, look at them just sharing your story to their friends. Mhm, oh look they want to come back and read more...
*pats self on back*
Good job. x3
Hey I only beg on the inside of my story. I don't complain anywhere else.

I complain a lot about not getting enough readers/subscribers/comments because, though I may write for myself, I would still enjoy more of an opinion on my story than the very rare "Oh, yeah, it's good. Please uptade soon." I don't necesarily complain as much as I used to, but I do find that other types of stories get a shit ton of more attention than others. I had a vampire original once, I had about 30 comments on it and around 50 subscirbers, and almost all of the comments were people telling me that they like my story. Sure, I enjoy the fact they they like it and I thank them for encouraging me, but was the story good? Hardly.

Now, I write mainly what I want to write and no one ever tells me what I can do better to become a better author, which is very important to me because I'm wanting to publish and I don't want my book to be 'that book'. It doesn't hurt to not get comments, nor does it hurt to get comments. I mean, it's not like I use this site for nothing. I was told to come here because I would get insightful critique about my writing. I could just as easily leave the site and nothing about my writing will change.

peace,
Nate.

This is a great blog. I think you've hit on a lot of really excellent points here.

Preach!!

I'm so glad someone finally decided to talk about this! I see those blogs all the time and I've just stopped trying to help

Yes, I agree with this very much. c: <3

I agree SO much!

TRUTH ALLLL OF IT!!

You are a saint for writing this I see those blogs all the time, but I tend to stay away from commenting on them.