Response to The Sad Truth About "Thick" - Comments

Okay, I guess I'm not explaining this well enough. My argument isnt about "looking" healthy. Its actually truly being healthy. Most of the time I can tell when someone isn't healthy because it shows in other places besides their weight. It shows in their hair, their skin, their energy levels, their eyes, their teeth, ad even their performance on tests. That's what I mean with healthy. If they can place all these rules on woman models today regarding their waist size and etc, then I feel there could be rules enforced on health.

I can see both sides of the argument.

On one side, I am a cashier for a supermarket and I see a LOT of obese people come through with things high in sugars and calories and salt and such, like slabs of Coke, chips, chocolate etc. A lot of the time, the items they buy are "sugar-free" which I think if they had an education in the area, they wouldn't touch... but because "sugar-free" is marketed as being better for you, they buy it and assume that it is okay to drink.
And I see people on those electronic carts that are quite capable of getting up and walking around but would just prefer not to, and I would assume they do not exercise.
That's not "healthy" and no, I don't like that this push towards larger proportioned people (usually women) to be seen as "beautiful" because unhealthy isn't something we should strive for.

But then on the other side, I am one of those lucky ones that could eat an entire block of chocolate right now and suffer a few pimples - and that's all. Maybe I'd gain a few kilos if I didn't watch it, but I tend to stay the same weight. And I NEVER exercise. I have a fast metabolism and my genetics from my dad's side of the family tell me I'll be thin. So I find it unfair that I am seen as a "healthy" weight because yeah, it's true, but it's not by my own doing at all. I don't exercise and I can be piggish when I want to be (my desk is currently littered with lolly wrappers :S). I am not a healthy person but it appears that way. And similarly, a larger person may exercise and watch what they eat every hour of every day and may never be viewed as a "healthy" weight even though they are a healthy person. Obviously, morbidly obese is never going to be healthy, but the media shows just curvier, slightly overweight women every now and then as "beautiful".

But really... when thinking about the whole thing... beauty is entirely subjective and it was never that beautiful=healthy to begin with. Beautiful is what we make of it, and what the media makes of it, and what the marketplace makes of it. A woman is viewed as more aesthetically pleasing if she shaves which is not healthier, if she is tanned as opposed to pasty/natural tone which is not healthier (and in fact, harmful), if she has blue eyes, blonde hair, is wearing red etc. None of these things are about health so why should someone's weight even come into it? It's all about what is aesthetically pleasing to someone. I don't like the push to either extreme (obesity or anorexia) and think both can cause huge health problems in those that strive to reach that idea of beauty but so can so many other ideas about beauty so, it's really none of my business in the end.

@ castiel's vessel
The best thing I can tell you is to go to youtube and look at most of freeleethebananagirl's youtube videos. From looking at your reply and the information you gave me shows that perhaps it's best that you look more into health and other people's health experiences. I really don't want to fight you or even get you to having closed ears so that's the best I can do. If you're not willing to look at her videos, then there isn't much else I can tell you because I have seriously tired out my will to write a lengthy post that explains everything that you just presented to me. The time it would take to explain is more than what I have the energy to do, honestly. But I really want you to know, so that's why I'm suggesting you to check her out. And if you do, I'd like to know.

The thing I dislike about health is that we're being told what is healthy and what isn't healthy by people who generalise their findings. Everyone is different - healthy to you might not be healthy to me, and who is to say that the officials that dictate what is health are right? We're led to believe that we have to consume x amount of calories to be health, all the while doing z amount of exercise and you know what? I think it's all rubbish. The ONLY reason my mum is fat is because she had children. She just didn't shift the baby weight, and with giving birth to eight children, I don't blame her. Had she not continued the population, she probably would have remained skinny. But no one really stops to think "huh, has that woman had children?" when they see an overweight or obese woman. They just think "oh, well she eats all day and doesn't exercise - look how unhealthy she is!" which is wrong.

You supply all these sources, but if I dug around enough I could probably find a different source that contradicts you because every statistics is based on a certain number of people, and a certain number of people do not refer to the entire popular (of America, as that's where you're getting your information). Also, each country has different weight for your height, and clothing sizes are different as well.

A lot of professionals and doctors sprout information like "if you're fat, you'll be more likely to get x, y and z" which probably acts as a slap in the face to healthy people who get x, y and z and see people who they deem as "fat" live a perfect healthy life without any complications like that.

"My argument is that those with larger amounts of body fat should not be the ideal of beauty (nor should those with a lack of body fat, for those that might somehow mention that that’s what I mean) because it poses as a health risk in today's epidemic of poor health and overweight/obesity."

But why not? If an obese woman is a picture of "beauty" how are we to know whether she is healthy or not? Likewise if a woman who looks anorexic is a picture of "beauty", how do we know whether she's truly healthy? I have a friend who eats and eats and eats but she's so skinny. Like there's no where near a thigh gap or anything like that. People have told her that she needs to eat but she does. It's just her body. No one can control that. It's like telling an obese woman who just gained weight despite eating healthily to diet, but she's actually extremely healthy (in terms of what you deem as healthy - with the tests being done) and eats what professionals would call a good, balanced diet. And you might think "yeah, well, most people aren't like that" but how do you know? Because you'll judge them by what they look like, regardless of the actual truth.

"So it still stands, I think every woman should be confident, but she should also understand what true health is."

What is "true" health? No one would be able to agree on a one definition of "true" health - it would differ between health professionals and nutritionists, as well as the different countries and cultures. I agree with the user below - healthy comes in all shapes and sizes. Someone with cancer could be otherwise completely healthy, as can someone with diabetes. Everyone is different, and that's not something that should be frowned upon. And you know what? Who cares if you're "unhealthy"? Only YOU should care, no one else. If someone wants to sit on the sofa, eat a lot of food and not shift it, why should it be anyone else's business other than their own? Nowadays we're too wrapped up in caring about what other people look like to realise that it's none of our business.

@ PoeticMess.
You never did answer my question. In my opinion something ideal shouldn't be something that can be potentially dangerous. The original post was towards the modeling industry and their influence on society. If they keep pushing stick thin women with unhealthy lifestyles and women with too much body fat with unhealthy lifestyles it could lead to other women potentially participating in unhealthy lifestyles themselves.

Let me put it this way. What if women with much more body fat became the icon of beauty and there was this girl that was naturally really skinny that felt inferior to her size because of phrases like "men like curves" or "women should have curves" got into her head. Then she ends up eating loads of food high in fat, high in sugar, and high in salt because we're taught that those are the things that make us fatter. She does this over a period of time and next thing you know, she has high blood pressure and diabetes. All this because she felt she was "too skinny" and not healthy. To me that's just as bad as having anorexic models in magazines. This is the argument I'm trying to share and I really wish that you would actually consider what I'm saying. I thought the same as you not that long ago, that every woman should be on magazines, even the overweight or obese ones because that's how most people look. But just because most people look a certain way, that doesn't mean it's right. It took me some time to change my views and understand the bigger picture through research.

Instead of telling me your opinions and how you feel, did you ever stop to ask what I think modelling industries and the media should showcase as being beautiful? Did you ever really consider what I'm saying or even do your own research? Do you know how much the pharmaceutical company is worth because of so many diseases linked to obesity? I'm trying my utmost hardest not to mention meat consumption, but even the shit behind that is really, really bad, much worse than I could have ever known.

Also, you don't know what measures my happiness, haha. Things like this makes me happy. Turning a blind eye doesn't make me happy. If anything it upsets me more.

@ Ayana Sioux
My argument is that those with larger amounts of body fat should not be the ideal of beauty.

1. "[fat people] should not be considered the ideal of beauty." Meaning that larger women don't match up with what you think classic, iconic beauty is. We're allowed to be beautiful (maybe), but not "ideal"? What's ideal is subjective. Your ideal beauty can be way different from others'. It's offensive that you think your version of ideal beauty should be society's.

Just worry about yourself, trust me, you'll be a lot happier if you stop projecting your views of others onto them. Beauty is subjective and health is not always connected with weight. & guess what, there are so many better things to live for.

I'm healthy enough to live. I'm not sick, my body's not failing me, I don't have diabetes or cancer or high blood pressure. I'm just fat. FAT. And who cares?

I get it, you think healthy is beautiful. But healthy comes in all shapes and sizes.

@ PoeticMess.
Again, You're quoting me incorrectly. Please, copy and paste where in this post I said that fat or skinny shouldn't be considered beautiful. Please answer, did I or did I not say that I think all women are beautiful regardless of size, but beauty doesn't mean healthy? Did I not say that? My opinions are that I believe more people should strive for health more than "beauty" and that striving for health should be the icon for beauty, not a certain feature. Health, it all revolves around health.

Do you want to know the truth about me? It doesn't matter what you think. Currently I'm not so happy about the fat that is stored in my stomach. This goes way beyond cosmetic reasons, I'm unhappy because larger stomach is a bad fat storage because it links to diseases. I am susceptible to hypertension. Hypertension runs in my family. When I was 204 pounds my blood pressure was getting too high. I knew I had to change something. After I lost weight and got to 160 my blood pressure was perfect. I was still unsatisfied with myself because my health wasn't as good as it should have been. I know that cancer, high blood pressure, diabetes, and high cholesterol runs in my family. For me it's not about size, it's about health. I have learned over this past year that the best way to reach good health is through a raw vegan diet. Of course not everyone has to be a raw vegan to be healthy, but it's the best way. I have learned in order for me to not only be healthy on the outside, but healthy on the inside without struggles regarding calorie restriction and feelings of fatigue, bloating, constipation, menstrual cramps, sinusitis, and many other things, I must become a mostly raw vegan and I will be starting that in four days.

Your worth is very important, yes, but with the rising numbers of over weight and obese people and the deaths due to such diseases that cause these things, we're talking much bigger than an individual as a person. Our world is very corrupt and I'm now realizing that a lot of the corruption all boils down to food. If our eating habits could improve, the corruption and destruction of the world could be cut down a lot. You may think I sound crazy, but with proper research without biased eyes, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Also, I'd like to ask, what is so wrong with me wishing that the icon of beauty was a healthy woman and not a woman with an unhealthy lifestyle? That's just like saying the icon of a sexy man is someone that smokes. Why encourage potentially deadly behavior? I really don't understand, can you please explain it to me?

And I don't know your body, nor would I feign like I do, so please, if you don't mind, how is your health as a whole and how is your body?

To tell you the truth, I think you've got a pretty skewed idea of people. Anyone can throw "facts" at someone and call it the truth. And while it is truthful, it is not the only truth. It's subjective.

And you're completely allowed to think that fat or skinny women shouldn't be considered beautiful by society, I think that you're so caught up in weight because you're striving to be a certain way. I don't think you should put your opinions on other people, especially since this all obviously stems back to you.

And as for this: Larger sizes are accepted more in American society because of many factors including: the majority of America being overweight and/or obese, lack of education, emotional strain, and apathy. . People are not accepting women more openly because they are uneducated, emotionally spent, or apathetic. They are accepting all sizes of women because when it comes down to it, who really cares? When it comes to who we are, our weight plays such a miniscule role.

I think you spend too much time worrying about your weight and the weight of other people. I think that you relate beauty back to the ability to pick up a man simply because you made some changes and now you can. But beauty is about how you feel about yourself, and if you finally like yourself because you lost weight and can get a guy, good for you. But people's "self-worth" doesn't always come down to weight like it did for you.

What I'm saying is that it's wrong for you to stay that there should only be one version of a beauty icon. If that version is what you're striving for, then good for you, but all women are different. A lot of us just want to accept ourselves the way we are and life our lives for something more than our weight. But it's people with negative views like yours who make it difficult for women like me to even like ourselves.

You changed yourself to be happy. Not all of us want to do that. I value myself enough as is that I don't want to have to change to fit into someone's opinion of what beauty should be.

& I'm not even going to argue with you over my health because you're one of those people who will just throw subjective facts and argue like you know my body better than I do. So while your opinion is allowed and tolerated and perfectly fine, I just think you should consider what negatives you're putting into people's bodies and minds rather than what we are putting into our own.

Just so you know, opinions like this can sometimes be more toxic than food.

(everything is just my opinion. I mean no offense. I'm respecting everyone else's so I hope that mine are respected too and people can continue to have a mature, opinion based discussion about this.)