How Do You Critique Stories? - Comments

@ holtzmann
I completely understand the sensitivity of others. My only issue is when people start out a class telling me to really work with their pieces to make them better and then they get offended that I'm critiquing what they wanted me to. (I'm not pointing the finger at you, I'm just stating that these critique methods are what I have to use so people who told me one thing and now want another thing are happy, you know?)

I, myself, like to know what's bad about my short story before I get good news. I understand that there could be some things wrong with story that I couldn't see because I was too close to the piece. Which is why I would much rather someone give me their honest, brutal even, opinion about my writing. I think that it shows character about the person you're trusting to read your writing; that they care enough to try and make you a better writer.

That's just my honest opinion, and definitely regarding my own work. I try to balance how I want to be critiqued, and how I know others want to be treated.

Hey, this is really helpful. I just started my Advanced Creative Writing class and one of the things I dread the most is peer-review. I always have a hard time telling people where they can improve because people always seem to take it the wrong way. Plus, I'm really sensitive myself. So if people don't word things in a nice way, I get really hurt. And I don't want to do that to anyone else. I think "Shit-Sandwich" is perfect. People (myself included) generally need to be "buttered up" and ending on a good note is always a good way to show that you're trying to be helpful rather than just mean. I never really considered which "style" of critique I was using. So I'm definitely going to use these in the hopes that it makes me feel less guilty. Hahaha.

Yeah I definitely agree that I won't repeat myself more than twice. If they want concrit, but don't want to act on it, then I'm not going to bother wasting my time to write out helpful responses.

@ PoeticMess.
I agree that we all start somewhere. I've been writing as a passion over a decade and a half now, and I still find myself making mistakes and refining my work. I just find it so hard to find good things to say to someone especially if they don't learn from their mistakes. I would constantly tell the same people the same issues in their stories. It was as if they didn't care enough. In that case, I don't offer too many good things about their writing. If they're not going to learn, why should I waste what little care I have about balance? This has definitely always been the sticking point with concrit for me, because I know how important it is to receive it, but also how to grow as a writer.

@ losing control.
Length has always played a big part about how I critique. In this same creative writing course I'm talking about, we were tasked with writing flash fictions with the maximum length at 500 words. I have found that my critique could be longer than the piece itself. I was taught to dissect every word and what it means for the greater arch of the story. I think Stephen King's quote, "You must not come lightly to the blank page" is very spot on. Especially if a story has a maximum, you have to go in choosing your words carefully. And that dictates exactly the kind of critique I give. If you use fillers, I will make sure you know that there are better solutions. In fact, it's my goal to give you (the general writing population "you") as many solutions as possible. So, maybe you wrote a 385-word flash fiction. Here's a 500-word reflection / critique on everything that I pulled from the story, and then things I think you can work on. Of course, I try to be as... nurturing as I can with this, because that's what I want to promote; growth as a writer, reader, and critic of literature.

In my creative writing fiction/poetry classes, I usually balance it out. And yeah, depending on the people, sometimes I put the bad first and other times I put the good first. Some people don't have as much practice, so they're not as good as others, but I know that everyone started someone, so I definitely don't bash people. Sometimes it's hard to find something authentic and good to say that it's cheesy like "oh cute idea" or such. It was really hard when my writing philosophy (that it should mean something) didn't match up with other people's (it's cute/fun/nostalgic), because I never knew what to say. But not everyone writes like me, so I have to find the good and move on.

The only time I'm coarse with people is when they're really full of themselves. There was one guy in my fiction classes that thought his writing was god's gift. When he read it, he was just overdone, dramatic, and annoying. He always criticized people too much for stupid stuff. He was just annoying, so I told him exactly what I thought about his stories (they had no set directions, the characters were shells of real people, and it was pompous). Of course I didn't say it that bluntly, but I'm pretty sure he got the gist.

As for critiquing on Mibba, I always point out the good, even if it's difficult to find. Usually those writers are new at it and all they need is constructive advice and encouragement. I know I was terrible when I started, and Mibba really propelled me forward. My writing is so far above where it used to be, and I want other new writers to experience that too.

I generally try and sandwich things, and I Kronk it up, like potnia theron said, but sometimes I'm writing a comment and no matter how I word it, it sounds like I'm just bashing on them which I never want to do. So sometimes I'll pick out specific parts of the story (characterization, plot development, etc.) and have a paragraph dedicated to each one. It sounds like it would be a whack load of writing and really nitpicky, but I've found that I can always find at least one little thing that they did right within the plot or with the characters, and pad the paragraph with that, but still be able to point out the stuff they need to work on without it seeming like that's all you're doing.

I find it depends a lot on the length of a story as well. If I'm commenting on a drabble or one-shot I'll often use the A-B method because there just isn't really a whole lot to comment on. With the A-B method though, I always start the comment with a sentence like "wow this was a really interesting [insert whatever here]" or "the ending really took me by surprise!" or something, because I feel like starting out on something good or pseudo-good makes it feel like I'm sandwiching and makes it feel like I'm being nicer

@ potnia theron
That is the best explanation (Kronk) for how I feel when I'm struggling to come up with something good to say in my shit sandwich! I've literally had to bullshit my way through stories that were cringe-worthy. "I liked how you described her favorite color: the underside of a cloud...." *to myself: "I guess....?"

Yeah, there have been times I have trouble not hating on some things. I've come across my fair share of cringe-worthy things where I have to kind of make up things as I go because I still don't have it in me to tear someone's writing down. The problem is that sometimes, my lack of enjoyment/dislike comes from the writing style and the content. Like there's nothing really wrong with it technically but I just don't like the writing style or I just don't like the content, which are both extremely subjective and not worth pointing out at all because I know that just because I didn't like it doesn't mean that it was bad. That's when I kinda BS (see: Kronk) my way through some comments and such if I absolutely have to. I like to think I'm decent at it now.

Also, I read that story! I remember it because it was probably one of the most creative stories I've read. I'm glad you didn't do a cat or a dog.

@ potnia theron
I was in the same boat: never knew there was a term for the shit sandwich. But I find that this is the way that I flourish giving concrit. In my creative writing class, I found it very hard not to hate on the stories I read. (For one of our assignments, we did anthropomorphism and the professor straight up said, "Don't do a cat or dog. Be creative." And he told the class that this is what he was looking for, not the crap he got for the assignment; it was very difficult not to hate, I swear.) I found my shit sandwiches to be very helpful for that class.

I, personally, go for the "shit sandwich" technique. I didn't realize there was a term for it until now, but that's exactly what I do (and found out that some of my friends use it, too). I'm of the mindset that a little kindness never hurt anybody. As a writer myself, I can't bring myself to tear into people's work mercilessly so I'll balance my concrit with things that I did like. I'll start on a high note, point out all the bad in the middle, and then end on a high note. Plus, I don't believe in giving concrit for subjective things like content. So if I'm giving concrit, it's for technical things like grammar, pacing, character development, things like that. I've seen the A-B technique before and I did it a couple of times, but shit sandwich is my preferred method.