Poverty in America

I don't see a forum on this, but if there is one, please show me.

Sometimes I get sick of people who have never lived in America saying things like "You have western privilege, what do you know about struggle" or crazy things like that. Honestly, America is not all that it's made out to be to outsiders. I think some people have a misconception of what poverty is. To me poverty is struggle to achieve the basic necessities in order to survive. I don't think it has anything to do with the amount of money someone makes.

However in America, our poverty revolves around money. I've noticed that recent statistics are showing how much more poor people our country is getting. All the wealth is beginning to be handed off to the rich people while poor people are just getting poorer. It's a really fucked up, backwards system we live in where many people (including myself) are beginning to struggle financially. What are you all's thoughts on this because I have to know?

@ Ayana Sioux

What would you define as 'basic necessities'? Because people in poor rural areas very often don't have access to clean water, medical care, education, roads, electricity, etc etc - so by your own definition they're very poor. The US is richer than almost every other country in the world, not just ones in the 'third world', the median household income in Western European countries like France or Germany is only 2/3 of the median household income in the US although the cost of living is not wildly different. Because of this, 'low income' Americans (on average) own larger houses, more appliances and bigger / more cars than 'middle class' Frenchmen or Germans. Income distribution is more equal in France and Germany, yes, but surely this is irrelevant if, as you suggested, we define poverty as lack of resources and opportunities rather than lack of money (or having less money than most people).

@ Ayana Sioux

There are people in America who have no money yet still have the resources they need to survive. It seems you are blending the definitions of absolute and relative poverty in your post, and I doubt many people have sympathy for the relatively poor in America, seeing as how I'm richer than a large portion of the world simply by finding a dollar on the ground.

@ Kurtni @ kafka.

But the stress factor here is totally different. I'd rather not reply on the whole thing about water and etc. because that would be going off topic (on my behalf). Besides, finding a dollar here won't get you anywhere. People in those countries don't need a dollar to survive. Like I said, they survive by the land. They understand that their healthcare isn't the best, however it doesn't necessarily affect their growth population. If there's one thing I've noticed about countries that have greater access to healthcare are declining in population.

And for kafka., regarding education of others, what kind of education do you think someone living in a village in Africa or Asia, living the traditional way of living, do they need and/or want? Poverty might be connected to education here in America (and other countries) however it's not the same for every countries.

I personally rather live in a smaller house with a cheap car if I don't have to stress about affording it everyday. I'm not sure about your feelings and desires, but I don't necessarily desire a large house if it's not necessary. I don't believe in having an excessive amount of material things if it's not needed for a greater purpose, beyond helping others. That's not my desire. I don't like the thought of people going through sheer poverty because someone else is milking money from their community.

@ Ayana Sioux
They're (we're) declining in population because they (we) have access to birth control and don't need large families to sustain themselves; that's not a bad thing. Having such a large population that cannot be fed or sustained is an awful thing. Having a population pyramid where so many people die incredibly young because of poor health care is an awful thing.

I'm not sure why you called this thread "poverty in America" if you intend to discuss poverty in other places.

@ Kurtni
I didn't intend on doing that. The two of you brought that up. I used it to defend the topic because I already knew someone would bring that argument up about other countries. But you know what, I'll just take that part out from the beginning.

Ayana Sioux:

@ Kurtni
I didn't intend on doing that. The two of you brought that up. I used it to defend the topic because I already knew someone would bring that argument up about other countries. But you know what, I'll just take that part out from the beginning.

I think you introduced other countries by bringing up the concept of relative poverty, because by definition, relative poverty involves comparison to other; the United States is in no way relatively poor, and that's not a concern. The underlying absolute poverty in such an incredibly wealthy society with the financial means to fix the problem is a problem.

@ Kurtni
But a lot of the problems aren't being addressed. It's beyond the lack of basic necessities. It's the stress aspect of it. A lot of the system is revolved around work. I think it might be hard for some to speak on it if they don't really feel the affects.

And the forum was beyond actual poverty, it's the growth of it because of the system we live in.

Having been in what is termed as relative poverty for the vast majority of my life, it drives me beyond irritation when people talk about those on welfare as the foulest creatures imaginable. (To clarify, I am writing a general post about the subject and I am not addressing it to anyone. I'm not suggesting anyone so far as said anything.) It's why I have a deep passion for the welfare state. I do think it can be implemented more effectively and yes there are that 0.01% of dicks who make everyone else look like thieves and blah blah blah but it at least covers the basic needs that a person has: in my country, you can get education to graduate level, free healthcare, housing benefit, tax benefit and of course, the small amount to get you fed, watered and fuelled up. I do think that the amount is not enough since it does not adequately raise itself with inflation. But I like the system and if that makes me a socialist then call me a socialist. I do think that any decent government must provide a proper safety net for citizens who - for whatever reason - can't afford to pay the bills.

HOWEVER, the relativeness of the poverty is a factor for me. Yes, things are wholeheartedly shit but there are people out there without access to the most basic of needs. Yes, some can live off the land but not every person in that absolute poverty does. I mean, for Christ sake, there are millions out there without access to clean drinking water.

I do think money is...an evil that only humans could have created. But then again, the alternatives seem primitive in comparison. What I do know that all forms of poverty are a disgrace to any good government. Instead of blaming the poor person, why the hell don't we do something? As far as I am concerned: humans > money (even though both kinda suck but human have created some lovely things). It's just sickening that people pass the buck on this issue all the time when this system does not work.

My thoughts on this are that it's terrible. I'm going through this right now. I live below the poverty line. Right now I currently can't afford to pay my rent or my electric bill. I'm on food stamps. It's depressing and I can see why being poor increases one's suicide risk.

@ joan.
Your country sounds like it offers more than ours. But other than the water factor, I think those people live with a lot less stress. And sometimes they use alternatives over water to stay hydrated, like people who live in desserts. Or sometimes they drink from wells. People in America... we can't really live off of the land. The land is mostly contaminated anyway.

And I have to agree. I also think money is an evil. And I don't think there's anything wrong with living traditionally (I think saying primitive is a bit insulting). And I hate the term third world.

@ dru can fly!
That's very unfortunate. Seems like a good deal of people on mibba are going through some fucked up times, some worse than others.

@ Ayana Sioux

And many have to use contaminated water supplies which causes gastro-intestinal diseases and makes something like diarrhea a major killer of young children.

I cannot help but think you're painting a rosy picture of this rural existence and it's definitely not as simple as you're making out. If your crops fail, how on earth do you feed your family?

@ joan.
And if the economy goes through depression, and you can't get welfare, how on earth do you feed your family?

@ Ayana Sioux
Food banks. SNAP benefits. Soup Kitchens. Red Cross. Community Action Networks. TANF. There are a wealth of resources for needy people in the US, where as people in other parts of the word simply starve to death. Are you seriously saying that people starving and living among disease in third world countries are better off than we are? That they don't have stressful lives? I think that's just plain patronizing and wrong.

I don't understand how you can just brush off the "water factor" when it kills many people every single day. People die of something completely preventable and you're idealizing it and minimizing the problem.

@ Kurtni
But she just said 'if you can't get welfare'. SNAP and TANF are welfare. I don't think the rest qualify, but those things are welfare and if you can't get them [or the government gets rid of them] ...

Also, depending on where you live in America, those things may not be possible to access. Smaller towns, in particular, do not have soup kitchens or food pantries. At least, none of the ones I lived in ever had one of those.

I definitely agree third world countries have it worse, but if you can't eat here in America, it doesn't mean you should be thankful you can't eat.

@ dru can fly!
if you cannot get SNAP o TANF benefits, I think you need to reassess your financial situation and spending habits, because the threshold for SNAP benefits is above the poverty line. (Ie, you can, by the numbers, be above the poverty line and still qualify for SNAP benefits.)

Of course, with new laws coming out targeting poor people by putting drug test requirements on SNAP benefits, that could be an obstacle, if you don't agree to drug counseling.

@ Kurtni
And then there's the fact the Republicans just want to cut all of that so poor people die and they get more money.

@ Kurtni
I'm not saying they're better off than we are, but that is usually the only factor that would keep them from eating, if the crop fails. But here, there are a lot more factors to why someone would become poor or lose money. Then there's the drugs (either the dealer or the user) factor, crime (here, it's a lot higher than other countries, and I understand why), then there's suicide rates, depression, and everything else.

And then what Dru said.

A study published Tuesday by the United States Census Bureau shows that progressively Americans are losing their battle to remain profitable in an economic climate that neglects to recover. According to the report, there are more Americans living under the poverty line than ever in the 52-year history of the Census Bureau records. Resource for this article: Poverty Line.

Poverty in America is a complicated issue with various factors contributing to it, demanding complete and systemic solutions.
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