Atheists

@ Alex; periphery.
The idea that belief in science is automatically greater than belief in God is something I hear on a nearly daily basis. It's pretty ridiculous, considering a lot of Christians believe in both science and God and there are scientists that believed in God, like Galileo.

miserable dru.:

@ Alex; periphery.
The idea that belief in science is automatically greater than belief in God is something I hear on a nearly daily basis. It's pretty ridiculous, considering a lot of Christians believe in both science and God and there are scientists that believed in God, like Galileo.

Oh I know that idea is quite ubiquitous, I've just never known anybody with a sound understanding of atheism (and by extension, an understanding of the dichotomy between theism and atheism) to assert a higher intelligence than that of a believer resulting from a "belief in science".

Would the phrase "I hope s/he is watching over you, with you, at peace, etc" without intending to have a religious implication still be considered one when speaking to an Atheist about a deceased loved one? Just curious because I know some Atheists believe in an afterlife or reincarnation or energy or spirits and I don't think it would be necessarily religious in meaning . . .

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My co-workers at work are pretty much evenly Christian/Atheist/Agnostic/Skepticist and most of us are liberal/progressive minded. And I feel like every person at work (myself included) has said at least once 'oh my God or, you know, whoever' so as not to offend another person. It's kind of funny. I really love the people I work with because of how open-minded they all are regardless of belief.

dru seems insane.:

Would the phrase "I hope s/he is watching over you, with you, at peace, etc" without intending to have a religious implication still be considered one when speaking to an Atheist about a deceased loved one? Just curious because I know some Atheists believe in an afterlife or reincarnation or energy or spirits and I don't think it would be necessarily religious in meaning . .

I wouldn't necessarily consider "he/she is at peace" or "he/she is with you" to be strictly religious sentiments, or even spiritual. I've often said "rest in peace" and similar things, and I see it as metaphorical for the person's deceased state, so to speak. As for "he/she is with you"; that can usually be applied to someone's memories/fondness of someone, which, again, can be exclusively secular. "Watching over", on the other hand, I would be more inclined to see as having a religious implication, because it does seem to allude to Heaven. I wouldn't freak out about it though, obviously.

@ dru seems insane.

it...it's difficult.

Whilst saying "they're at peace" or whatever, that's cool. But I did go to a funeral of a friend and the minister kept going on and on about how this is not the end and how they were watching over you and you'll meet them again...

It was like rubbing salt into the wound really. I mean, I'm sure it comforted others but yeah, it just seemed to underline just how much they were gone and never coming back to me.

@ joan.
I would never presume to say 'you'll see them again' to someone. That I feel, is a religious statement. I would most likely say 'I hope they're at peace'. I heard the wording in a show and was just curious because I felt it might have slightly religious undertones to someone who is an Atheist.

However, my Atheist mother is very kind to well-meaning Christians who offer to pray for her if she says she's ill. (Like Facebook well wishes when she said my stepdad was in the hospital.) As she puts it, they're sending out positive energy so it can't hurt anything. (My mother believes in energy and reincarnation.) I always says "you're in my thoughts/prayers" because I know so many of my Facebook friends are Atheists.

I wasn’t raised in a religious family, or in an overtly religious country; however I did attend a Catholic school from the age of six to eleven. I grew sceptical of the concept of theism at the age of seven – around the same time that I began questioning the existence of Santa Claus. I can’t imagine believing in something without any demonstrable evidence.

@ tonic

tonic:

I can’t imagine believing in something without any demonstrable evidence.

well, you probably do it all the time without realizing. We all do. Life would be simply impossible without beliefs. They are not bad in themselves.

Atheism is also a belief, since no one has enough evidence that this entity called "God" doesn't exist. Or that it exists.

Science is actually agnostic.

@ Filth in the Beauty
Possibly? I can't think of any examples of doing so. Regardless, religion is typically very influential on an individual’s life, and I could personally never allow my life to be so immensely affected without first being exposed to evidence.

Atheism is not a belief. It is the absence of belief.

@ tonic
But I wasn't talking about religion. For example, you first believe someone is a nice person and you can trust them, that is the sort of belief that allows you to make a friendship. If we waited for evidences to guide our actions all the time, we would probably die or at least be really ineffective. This is a bit off-topic anyway, I just wanted to point out that most of what we do in our daily life is actually based on beliefs, not on evidences.

tonic:

Atheism is not a belief. It is the absence of belief.

Then tell me a scientific evidence that God doesn't exist to prove your point. If there is an evidence, you will find a scientific article about it somewhere. If you don't find anything, it's a belief.

@ Filth in the Beauty
This person would first have to show social signs of kindness and trustworthiness, which would act as evidence for the conclusion that they are a nice person that one can trust. Even if this conclusion was incorrect, it was still based on evidentiary support.

“Then tell me a scientific evidence that God doesn't exist to prove your point. If there is an evidence, you will find a scientific article about it somewhere. If not, it's a belief.”

Sure. There is no demonstrable evidence that God exists. I hope that was enlightening. No scientific article required.

Remember, atheism is a rejection, not an assertion.

@ tonic
Evidences aren't mere signs or assumptions, are concrete observations of facts. If they are later proven incorrect, they weren't even evidences to start with, only inference.

Unless you're a stalker you normally won't know that much about a person before befriending them.

tonic:

Sure. There is no demonstrable evidence that God exists. I hope that was enlightening. No scientific article required.

This doesn't make your position any more scientific than the one of somebody who believes in god. Actually, it equals both since none of them has any evidence to prove their points.
That's why science doesn't take sides and doesn't rule out the possibility of god.

tonic:

Remember, atheism is a rejection, not an assertion.

by saying something doesn't exist you're also making an assertion.

Filth in the Beauty:

This doesn't make your position any more scientific than the one of somebody who believes in god. Actually, it equals both since none of them has any evidence to prove their points.
That's why science doesn't take sides and doesn't rule out the possibility of god.

So is someone who thinks unicorns are real just as sane as someone who thinks they're not? We don't have any evidence to prove they aren't real, along with Santa and the tooth fairy.... I think it's very unscientific to believe in something without evidence. There is no evidence for God, thus no reason to believe. This applies to all ideas in science.

And I disagree that science doesn't disprove, or at the very least discredit, the possibility of God, at least the God of major religions. We know how the universe was created, how evolution began and progressed... and we know God had nothing to do with it. It's all explainable without a God.

@ tonic
Where is the demonstrable proof someone loves you? Or that you love someone?

There is no conclusive way to prove the moon exists unless you've been there. Everything is just speculation and hearsay.

Do you have a favorite food or drink? You believe this food or drink is better than others because of your personal taste, but not through any provable evidence.

dru brings sexy back:

@ tonic
Where is the demonstrable proof someone loves you? Or that you love someone?

There is no conclusive way to prove the moon exists unless you've been there. Everything is just speculation and hearsay.

Do you have a favorite food or drink? You believe this food or drink is better than others because of your personal taste, but not through any provable evidence.

Reducing an argument into absurdism doesn't validate whatever point your making.

What does proving love have to do with this God? Science would say love is caused by measurable chemicals and hormones, which we can "prove". If an individual has personal feelings (God's existence is not personal- if God exists, he exists for everyone) towards someone else, I doubt they're looking for scientific validation.

Everything is not just speculation and hearsay. You don't get to discredit every discovery in the history of humans because of your own limited experiences. If you believed that was a legitimate thought process outside of this particular debate, you would be anti-education and anti-science.

I think everyone acknowledges their favorite food is their favorite food because of personal taste, that's why it's my favorite. Im not sure where you're going with that, that's nothing like believing in a God that allegedly exists for everyone.

@ Kurtni
She said, "I can’t imagine believing in something without any demonstrable evidence."

If she believes someone loves her, something that cannot be proven, then she has contradicted herself. Whether or not she is looking for scientific validation of it, doesn't change the original statement she made.

dru brings sexy back:

@ Kurtni
She said, "I can’t imagine believing in something without any demonstrable evidence."

If she believes someone loves her, something that cannot be proven, then she has contradicted herself. Whether or not she is looking for scientific validation of it, doesn't change the original statement she made.

Acts of kindness from the person are not evidence? Positive comments? Selfless behavior? Emotional support? Its not like we just start calling a relationship love out of the blue, you DO look for evidence your love is reciprocated.

@ Kurtni
So feel the movement of the Holy Spirit? Having my prayers answered? Receiving joyful bounty in my life? These aren't evidence?

If the stuff you stated is evidence, then all the shit I stated is evidence, too.

Frankly, I don't think either are proof.