Profanities in Stories

And Sing:

Hmm, in first person, I would use curse words sparingly outside of dialogue, particularly if they're doing some kind of internal monologue, or commenting in the narrative.

But, in third person? No. Unless it's a person's thoughts, but then again that's just inner dialogue.

So, First person: I'd use curse/swear words in the narrative if it fit the character.

Third person. No.

Do you do that because you feel it's "correct" or because it's just your writing style?

Do you think that code should be adhered to by other writers?

(Not jumping on you, just trying to get some discussion rolling. )

dru's name is alice.:

Do you do that because you feel it's "correct" or because it's just your writing style?

Do you think that code should be adhered to by other writers?

(Not jumping on you, just trying to get some discussion rolling. )

[Roll away ]

I think it's my writing style. I don't know about whether it's correct or incorrect. It just makes sense to me. I've never seen it in third person though. Not to say it couldn't be done.

What do you think?

And Sing:

I think it's my writing style. I don't know about whether it's correct or incorrect. It just makes sense to me. I've never seen it in third person though. Not to say it couldn't be done.

What do you think?

I swear in all points of view, including third person. It's not for the sake of swearing, however (even though I do have a mouth like a sailor). I full believe that the tone and flow of a piece should never be sacrificed for the sake of using a word that isn't a curse word.

(I quoted the example from my first post.)

For example [from my story Objective Promiscuity]: When they got back to the hotel, Brendon fucked him into the mattress.
Should I say 'Brendon made love to him'? No. Doesn't fit the tone or the truth.
'Brendon fornicated with him'? No. Sounds stupid.
'Brendon screwed him'? Almost, but not quite.
It works the way it is because that is the way the story is meant to be told.

And for that reason, I support swearing in third narrative and any narrative. If it disrupts the flow, I would hate it. Just like I hate it when flow is disrupted by any word that doesn't fit.

I'm not saying I think should feel obligated to swear in second and third narration. I'm simply saying I think people should feel obligated, as a writer, to produce the best possible piece they can. And if using a swear word outside of first narration and dialogue will help them, then I believe that should be done.

I agree that it depends on the tone and subject matter of the story along with the connotation. I definatly say "fuck" when I'm talking about sex because like Dru said sometimes "made love" doesn't fit and "had sex" is just plain and boring but I don't usually swear just because it doesn't go with the tone I'm using.
I've read first person where it inturupted the flow and sounded trashy and I've read third where it adds a certain flavour to the writing - it's personal taste as well.

dru's name is alice.:

I swear in all points of view, including third person. It's not for the sake of swearing, however (even though I do have a mouth like a sailor). I full believe that the tone and flow of a piece should never be sacrificed for the sake of using a word that isn't a curse word.

(I quoted the example from my first post.)

For example [from my story Objective Promiscuity]: When they got back to the hotel, Brendon fucked him into the mattress.
Should I say 'Brendon made love to him'? No. Doesn't fit the tone or the truth.
'Brendon fornicated with him'? No. Sounds stupid.
'Brendon screwed him'? Almost, but not quite.
It works the way it is because that is the way the story is meant to be told.

And for that reason, I support swearing in third narrative and any narrative. If it disrupts the flow, I would hate it. Just like I hate it when flow is disrupted by any word that doesn't fit.

I'm not saying I think should feel obligated to swear in second and third narration. I'm simply saying I think people should feel obligated, as a writer, to produce the best possible piece they can. And if using a swear word outside of first narration and dialogue will help them, then I believe that should be done.

That makes a lot of sense. I guess I just haven't seen it much.

I don't mind it as long as the story fits it.

I swear only in first person. The language really depends on what kind of person the narrator is. I don't like the way it sounds in third, though. It's too... pushy.

wolfeyes.:

I swear only in first person. The language really depends on what kind of person the narrator is. I don't like the way it sounds in third, though. It's too... pushy.

What if the narration is meant to be pushy?

And Sing:

That makes a lot of sense. I guess I just haven't seen it much.

I lie. I have seen it. In JR Wards Black Dagger Brotherhood series. But it totally fits the characters in her books.

If swearing fits in the context of your writing, swear! I use swear words in my writing; there isn't anything wrong with that. People swear in real life; we can't deny that. Why not swear in our writing?

I think the only curse word I use in third person narrative is 'damn'. Sometimes crap, but that's only if it fits with the character. I write a lot of Supernatural fanfiction so the phrase 'son of a bitch' tends to crop up a lot.

I also have a character who I write in first person. She's... difficult and she swears a lot, which was really a choice I made with her because she's a very aggressive, offensive character.

To me, swearing depends on the kind of person you're writing about.

cause dru's gone.:

What if the narration is meant to be pushy?

Hmm, well I guess that would make sense. It really depends on the situation. For instance I wouldn't like "He was so fucking excited!" It sounds too childish. I guess it could be pulled off if it were used in an eloquent way.

Swearing in over abundance just becomes really irritating. In my opinion, it shows a lack of creativity if every other word is a curse. Dialogue tends to be pretty safe to use it, first person narration, maybe sparingly. But as far as third person narration is concerned, I really don't feel it has much of a place. I swear nearly every other word out of my mouth, but when I write, I almost never use them.

fauxpunker:

But as far as third person narration is concerned, I really don't feel it has much of a place.

So you just don't feel that there's a reason that one would need to use a word such as "fuck" in third person narration?

I agree with the idea of not using it in 3rd person.

I mean, it depends on the mood and tone of the story. And the setting. For example, if I write a story that's all about fantasy and takes place in the old ages [or whatever], there's no place for cursing, except probably 'damn'. :/

But if it's set in modern time, then by all means, swear away. Like your example Dru, it shouldn't disrupt the flow.

Same goes for 1st person, in that case, I guess. Time frame should really be taken into account...

^Does any of that make sense? xP

Cokeaholic:

I agree with the idea of not using it in 3rd person.

I mean, it depends on the mood and tone of the story. And the setting. For example, if I write a story that's all about fantasy and takes place in the old ages [or whatever], there's no place for cursing, except probably 'damn'. :/

But if it's set in modern time, then by all means, swear away. Like your example Dru, it shouldn't disrupt the flow.

Same goes for 1st person, in that case, I guess. Time frame should really be taken into account...

^Does any of that make sense? xP

I think it depends on the tone more than the time frame, but the time frame can have effect on the tone.

It's just, like, something that is the word you need to use. And why would you sacrifice that for something petty like not swearing?

Granted, I'm biased. I curse rather a lot in third person narration.

It's very easy to confuse profuse swearing with being edgy. Swearing in abundance in a narrative has a tendency to come across the same way it does in most standard conversations, i.e. immature, attention seeking, etc. Used frequently it can come off as a lazy way of trying to convey intense feeling. A narrator calling a character a f***er is far less effective writing than a narrator describing a character in a way that makes the reader respond with "that f***er". Telling vs. showing, so to speak. This is the approach I take to my own writing and generally how I veiw things that I read. Charlie Huston comes to mind as an author that sort of crossed this line for me recently. At first, the profanity in the dialogue didn't cause me to bat an eye. However, once it became clear that each spoken sentence was going to have f-bomb in it that did nothing but take up space, I began rolling my eyes and skipping over most of it.

Think of it like cooking. Swear words are a spice. Like any spice, if you use too much, it's going to overpower and ruin the dish. Swear words are just a really strong spice and best used sparingly.

hopefully, this maks some amount of sense. i've been writing this at work between taking care of other things, so my brain's been a bit jumbled.

But there's also a difference between using a swear word as an adjective, noun, or verb.

When you "fuck" someone, you tend to "fuck" them, not have sexual intercourse.

Well, in this particular instance I can honestly say no argument comes to mind, then. For my own part, I don't really write sex scenes, so I can't say I have much frame of reference there. I guess I'm talking more about things like this snippet from the first page of the thread.

"third-person
He gave the guy across from him the dirtiest fucking look imaginable."

'Fucking' really adds nothing to the sentence. It doesn't change the meaning of the sentence, it doesn't make the look any dirtier. It's just taking up space.

Cokeaholic:

I mean, it depends on the mood and tone of the story. And the setting. For example, if I write a story that's all about fantasy and takes place in the old ages [or whatever], there's no place for cursing, except probably 'damn'. :/

Why would age have anything to do with cursing in stories? John Wilmot (2nd Earl of Rochester) was writing in the mid-late 1600s and some of his poems are pretty liberally infused with words like fuck and cunt. Then again I can guarantee that some of his stuff is filthier than any sex scenes you'll ever find on Mibba.