Is God Real?

I.am.Jesus.

kafka.:

Donks:

But by the same token, I believe that there was once a polkadott spoon which sat on my desk whilst I was out one night, and it was put there and taken away by a bird. No one saw it happen, but no one saw that it didn't happen, and I really, truly believe. Let's say I felt the spoon's presence, or had a vision when I was out and it was going on?

Is this enough to prove that the spoon existed and was there on my desk?

Firstly your spoon didn't create the whole world and thus it can only exist within it, while God exists outside the world too, and secondly, let's assume that a spoon does sit on your desk, try to prove that it exists.

How do we know the spoon did not create the whole world, and simply felt that it must become a part of it and decided to be placed on my desk?

You cannot prove that this world is not but a figment of our imagination, a lie we've been telling each other for generations, watching as it transforms like a game of Chinese Whispers. Therefore I cannot prove that the spoon exists. It could to me, and not to others. Which is why we cannot prove that God does not exist, but is also why we cannot prove he does exist. You could say he exists outside the realms of reality, but then that would prove that he's not real, surely?

Reality is not a certainty, and so it can be bent to whatever one believes it to be.

I'm Satan.

I got goosed.

Donks:

How do we know the spoon did not create the whole world, and simply felt that it must become a part of it and decided to be placed on my desk?

You cannot prove that this world is not but a figment of our imagination, a lie we've been telling each other for generations, watching as it transforms like a game of Chinese Whispers. Therefore I cannot prove that the spoon exists. It could to me, and not to others. Which is why we cannot prove that God does not exist, but is also why we cannot prove he does exist. You could say he exists outside the realms of reality, but then that would prove that he's not real, surely?

Reality is not a certainty, and so it can be bent to whatever one believes it to be.

Mind is blown.
I agree with this completely though. God cannot be proved to exist or not exist. It's impossible, because if he does exist, we are not on the proper plane to observe him, and if he doesn't, well, we can't know that, because we can't check every level of existence.

Ckaye:

^ Okay so maybe we can't answer those questions ourselves but I don't see where faith can do anything.

Faith enables us to live life through trusting that the things we don't understand have a reason for being.

VampShadsOwns:

Ckaye:

^ Okay so maybe we can't answer those questions ourselves but I don't see where faith can do anything.

Faith enables us to live life through trusting that the things we don't understand have a reason for being.

I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing that, because I go through my life everyday without faith.

But, I'm sure you have 'faith' in reality, or people...or situations? Right? It's just that I and many other people have faith in some one much bigger than the universe.

It's the same thing, you might not believe in a god or gods...but you must have faith in something? You have faith that the sky won't collapse on top of you...you have faith that you will wake up the next morning? Right?

Faith is just reasoning trust. The Christian faith is reasoning trust in a Living God.

You could have reasoning trust in something else.

^ I make a distinction between faith and trust. I trust in people. I don't have any faith.

Dancing Caveman:

^ I make a distinction between faith and trust. I trust in people. I don't have any faith.

That is the same way I feel, if faith comes from Christianity which I don't believe then I don't believe in faith.

The only guiding force in my life is me.

The word faith was around a long time before it had anything to do with Christianity.

People can be faithful to each other, they don't have to be Christian.

Faith is a kind of trust. You wouldn't have faith in someone you don't trust.

Faith is absolute trust. Trust isn't absolute. I think I've talked about this distinction before.

VampShadsOwns:

Faith is just reasoning trust. The Christian faith is reasoning trust in a Living God.

You could have reasoning trust in something else.

Where exactly is the reasoning in believing in god? Because I have yet to see it...

I mean, you could say the universe, but that's not real reasoning because science has yet to unfold the universe's story. It's sort of like a one-sided arguement. We don't have all the facts because we're still evolving when it comes to intelligence and learning. On the other hand, Christians can just say "god did it" and then the arguement would come to a close.

There is no reasoning in that statement because reasoning requires proof and there is no proof that god did anything.

What I'm trying to get at is that faith can't be associated with reasoning, because faith is illogical by definition, and reasoning has to be logical.

kelseykillscliche:

Faith can't be associated with reasoning, because faith is illogical by definition, and reasoning has to be logical.

We don't just need faith in stuff with evidence, but things which have no evidence at all. For example, there's the totally unprovable belief that inanimate objects follow laws, or that our minds can even see reality for what it really is. We have faith that such things are true, but it still doesn't make much sense in saying "it just is." Faith in the supernautral, specifically a Creator, gives a bit more reason to the faith we already have in these things. Then there are the questions like "why am I here?" and "what is my purpose in life?" Which are completely unreachable by reason. Also there's the question of morality which no one agrees on...

Either we ignore the questions and pretend there's nothing important about them, or we try to answer them with faith to the best of our ability. And the reason religion is so diverse is because different people see sense in different theories.

But the idea that inanimate object follow laws has reason behind it, such as when you throw something, it falls. Yes, it's a theory, but there's reason to follow it. I don't see the reason in faith.

I don't think God's real. :file:

i have the same question some times.but i go for a simpler answer.would you like to believe in adam and eve or the big bang theory, cause as far feyched as adam and eve are to me the big bang theory makes to damn sense

Faith is illogical if we think in human terms. But God is bigger than us, bigger than the universe so what may seem illogical to us...is not illogical in Him.

Look, I say we agree to disagree, because as far as I'm concerned Faith is reasoning trust. And unless someone can disprove God's existence to me that is what I will always believe. So, this is just going to end up being a circular discussion going nowhere. At least from my perspective.

kelseykillscliche:

But the idea that inanimate object follow laws has reason behind it, such as when you throw something, it falls. Yes, it's a theory, but there's reason to follow it. I don't see the reason in faith.

Yeah, reason is basically cause-and-effect, which is what science relies upon. You repeat a certain cause-and-effect sequence (throw a ball and watch it drop) many times and if you get the same results every time under the same conditions, you conclude that the cause really caused the effect, and was not due to chance or an outside factor.

Science assumes that cause-and-effect applies throughout the universe, that a cause will always have the same effect on an entity no matter how many times a certain situation occurs. Science "proves" things by taking reason for granted. However, can we ever know if cause-and-effect will take effect in every situation, or that reason exists everywhere and nothing is due to chance? No. We need to have faith that cause-and-effect is constant and that it exists everywhere. If we didn't have faith that reason was universal, we wouldn't bother coming up with science in the first place.

Okay, that just sounded totally weird...hope it made sense. :shock:

^ Hey, here's an idea. Go stand in the middle of an interstate and see if cars will hit you. Because, hey, maybe one day, the assumption that science makes about cause and effect will be wrong.

^
:lmfao

Perihelion_:

Yeah, reason is basically cause-and-effect, which is what science relies upon. You repeat a certain cause-and-effect sequence (throw a ball and watch it drop) many times and if you get the same results every time under the same conditions, you conclude that the cause really caused the effect, and was not due to chance or an outside factor.

Science assumes that cause-and-effect applies throughout the universe, that a cause will always have the same effect on an entity no matter how many times a certain situation occurs. Science "proves" things by taking reason for granted. However, can we ever know if cause-and-effect will take effect in every situation, or that reason exists everywhere and nothing is due to chance? No. We need to have faith that cause-and-effect is constant and that it exists everywhere. If we didn't have faith that reason was universal, we wouldn't bother coming up with science in the first place.

Okay, that just sounded totally weird...hope it made sense. :shock:

We don't really have "faith" because we know that in terms of how we see the effect, our experiment proves true. Faith isn't a factor in science. There is only yes, no, and can't be explained. Those are the only three answers I find in science. There isn't one that says "hmm, I don't know if this is right or not, but I'm going to have faith. Science doesn't work like that as far as I'm concerned.

VampShadsOwns:

Faith is illogical if we think in human terms. But God is bigger than us, bigger than the universe so what may seem illogical to us...is not illogical in Him.

Look, I say we agree to disagree, because as far as I'm concerned Faith is reasoning trust. And unless someone can disprove God's existence to me that is what I will always believe. So, this is just going to end up being a circular discussion going nowhere. At least from my perspective.

But faith is a human trait, used on Earth, so what would the idea that god is bigger than us have to do with it? If we die and some how go to heaven, faith doesn't exist, truth does.

But, okay, let's agree to disagree.