Gay Rights

It could. I think it does. I think you should pursue your happiness and if that includes getting married, then it should be your right to do so. Of course, then, you have people who argue that Marriage is a religious institution, and since homosexuality is considered a sin, they shouldn't have the right to marry. I think it is ridiculous because murdering is a sin and a bunch of murders, convicted murders, get married.

^ Except that it isn't just religious, because my parents are married and they sure as hell (excuse the pun) didn't marry in a Church.

It's In The Blood.:

^ Except that it isn't just religious, because my parents are married and they sure as hell (excuse the pun) didn't marry in a Church.

Mine didn't either.
And in order to be married, church or not, you have to go the courthouse and get a marriage license. (In the U.S., at least.)

Sardonic Grin:

Not that I don't agree with what you are saying, but homosexuals are- theorectically- given those rights. They have a right to live, they have a right to liberty which are the freedoms of speech, petition, religion, etc etc, and have the right to the persuit of happiness, but not guarenteed happiness. Which is a cruel kind of play with words.

I totally agree with you. It is a very cruel play on words.
The constitution doesn't guarantee you the right to happiness. Only to pursuit it.
Then again....how can you pursuit happiness if what would make you happy isn't permitted?

I know people could argue with this statement that many things that people find 'joy' in things that aren't legal, so they aren't receiving the 'pursuit of happiness' right. But, you have to follow the other amendments too.

I was wondering what you guys think of...was it Washington?...recently passing a law that gives LGBT couples all of the rights and benefits of heterosexual couples, but without actually granting them "marriage."

Personally, I think it's a huge step in the right direction--but I also think MARRIAGE should be allowed. If you're giving me all the same rights as marriage, why don't you want to call it marriage? I think it goes deeper than the religious implications of marriage, as they claim--because by that rule, atheists shouldn't be allowed to marry, right? To me, it's a sign that I am still considered a second-class citizen; that I can have all the same benefits just to appease me, but I'm still not on the same "level," if you know what I mean.

What are your thoughts on this?

TheNewFoShizzle:

I was wondering what you guys think of...was it Washington?...recently passing a law that gives LGBT couples all of the rights and benefits of heterosexual couples, but without actually granting them "marriage."

Personally, I think it's a huge step in the right direction--but I also think MARRIAGE should be allowed. If you're giving me all the same rights as marriage, why don't you want to call it marriage? I think it goes deeper than the religious implications of marriage, as they claim--because by that rule, atheists shouldn't be allowed to marry, right? To me, it's a sign that I am still considered a second-class citizen; that I can have all the same benefits just to appease me, but I'm still not on the same "level," if you know what I mean.

What are your thoughts on this?

It is a huge step in the right direction. As my mother pointed out to me, I want instant gratification and I'm not a patient person. But she's right when she says it will take steps to get to where we want to be, and that's a very good one.

druscilla zanzibar.:

It is a huge step in the right direction. As my mother pointed out to me, I want instant gratification and I'm not a patient person. But she's right when she says it will take steps to get to where we want to be, and that's a very good one.

I'm the same way. And I agree, this is a great improvement. But there's just something about it that says "This is the closest we can get to separate but equal without seeming inhumane so this is what we'll give you. But you're still not like us so we're not going to call it marriage. K? K." I don't know, to me it just seems like it's just to appease the LGBT activists...but I'm still really grateful for it. I just still feel like until they allow gays to get married AND CALL IT MARRIAGE, it's still kind of a "You're still not on our level" type thing, y'know? It's still that subtle feeling that they consider us second-class citizens.

Nonetheless. You're right, and I agree--this is progress.

I'm just a I WANT IT NAO kind of person.

TheNewFoShizzle:

I'm the same way. And I agree, this is a great improvement. But there's just something about it that says "This is the closest we can get to separate but equal without seeming inhumane so this is what we'll give you. But you're still not like us so we're not going to call it marriage. K? K." I don't know, to me it just seems like it's just to appease the LGBT activists...but I'm still really grateful for it. I just still feel like until they allow gays to get married AND CALL IT MARRIAGE, it's still kind of a "You're still not on our level" type thing, y'know? It's still that subtle feeling that they consider us second-class citizens.

Nonetheless. You're right, and I agree--this is progress.

I'm just a I WANT IT NAO kind of person.

One day they'll call it marriage. One day people won't be holding picket signs saying "God hates Fags".

I keep telling myself that. I think it'll happen. One day.

Freakazette!:

One day they'll call it marriage. One day people won't be holding picket signs saying "God hates Fags".

I keep telling myself that. I think it'll happen. One day.

It seriously annoys me when I see those signs.

God does not hate 'fags' he hates sin. Big difference. But I digress.

One day there won't be any prejudices. We can only hope.

Freakazette!:

One day they'll call it marriage. One day people won't be holding picket signs saying "God hates Fags".

I keep telling myself that. I think it'll happen. One day.

I don't personally think it'll happen within my lifetime. Or my hypothetical children's lifetimes either.

The calling it marriage part might. The protesting against homosexuality part won't.

Freakazette!:

One day they'll call it marriage. One day people won't be holding picket signs saying "God hates Fags".

I keep telling myself that. I think it'll happen. One day.

The only with the "God Hates Fags" signs are the Westboro Baptist Church, who don't count as "people." Mainly because they also hold up signs saying "God Hates America," "Thank God for 9/11," "Thank God for AIDS," etc., and they protest soldier's funerals because they "deserve to die" for "protecting a fag-enabling country."

You should read Shirley Phelps' blogs. They sound like they were written by a twelve-year-old if you read it by maturity, and by a fourteen-year-old if you read it by writing style. It's so hard to take her seriously. But they call so much attention to themselves. Just...fjdksafjdask;dlfjs

But I digress. One day, you're right, that will happen. And hopefully within our lifetimes, unlike someone below us said. Think about this: the African-American civil rights movement was within the lifetime of PLENTY of people alive today, and while you still have some bigoted asshats in the country, for the most part people today think, HOLY CRAP, how can you not let HUMAN BEINGS get those basic rights? I hope that before my lifetime is over, people are asking the same question about gay marriage, and this whole issue will be one of those, "wow, I can't believe that was ever denied, what was WRONG with people back then?" things.

TheNewFoShizzle:

The ones with the "God Hates Fags" signs are the Westboro Baptist Church, who don't count as "people." Mainly because they also hold up signs saying "God Hates America," "Thank God for 9/11," "Thank God for AIDS," etc., and they protest soldier's funerals because they "deserve to die" for "protecting a fag-enabling country."

You should read Shirley Phelps' blogs. They sound like they were written by a twelve-year-old if you read it by maturity, and by a fourteen-year-old if you read it by writing style. It's so hard to take her seriously. But they call so much attention to themselves. Just...fjdksafjdask;dlfjs

But I digress. One day, you're right, that will happen. And hopefully within our lifetimes, unlike someone below us said. Think about this: the African-American civil rights movement was within the lifetime of PLENTY of people alive today, and while you still have some bigoted asshats in the country, for the most part people today think, HOLY CRAP, how can you not let HUMAN BEINGS get those basic rights? I hope that before my lifetime is over, people are asking the same question about gay marriage, and this whole issue will be one of those, "wow, I can't believe that was ever denied, what was WRONG with people back then?" things.

TheNewFoShizzle:

The only with the "God Hates Fags" signs are the Westboro Baptist Church, who don't count as "people." Mainly because they also hold up signs saying "God Hates America," "Thank God for 9/11," "Thank God for AIDS," etc., and they protest soldier's funerals because they "deserve to die" for "protecting a fag-enabling country."

You should read Shirley Phelps' blogs. They sound like they were written by a twelve-year-old if you read it by maturity, and by a fourteen-year-old if you read it by writing style. It's so hard to take her seriously. But they call so much attention to themselves. Just...fjdksafjdask;dlfjs

But I digress. One day, you're right, that will happen. And hopefully within our lifetimes, unlike someone below us said. Think about this: the African-American civil rights movement was within the lifetime of PLENTY of people alive today, and while you still have some bigoted asshats in the country, for the most part people today think, HOLY CRAP, how can you not let HUMAN BEINGS get those basic rights? I hope that before my lifetime is over, people are asking the same question about gay marriage, and this whole issue will be one of those, "wow, I can't believe that was ever denied, what was WRONG with people back then?" things.

Racism hasn't gone away :| Or will homophobia be different and disappear the moment they're allowed to marry?

It's In The Blood.:

Racism hasn't gone away :| Or will homophobia be different and disappear the moment they're allowed to marry?

I'm not saying that. Stupidity and bigotry will NEVER go away completely. But are we still seeing people protest a right to vote regardless of skin color? Are we still seeing schools threatening to shut down if they can't segregate their students?

On the legal aspect, I do think it's realistic to hope that, within our lifetime, there will no longer be protests for civil rights and there will be equality in the eyes of the law, even if there are still bigots out there who "just don' like them damn hommasexuals."

^ I said that I believe legal rights will be obtained.

I don't believe the "God Hates Fags" signs will go away though, anymore than I believe that people will stop being racist.

It's In The Blood.:

^ I said that I believe legal rights will be obtained.

I don't believe the "God Hates Fags" signs will go away though, anymore than I believe that people will stop being racist.

I know, I'm saying I don't think people will be protesting legal rights. I think people will stop standing on the side of the streets screaming about how we need to protect the sanctity of marriage. I don't think there will bepolitical activism against gay marriage. There will always be people who just don't like it. But I think it's safe to believe that in our lifetime, society will be generally accepting of it with the exception of those few.

I'm sure "God Hates Fags" signs in particular will die out as soon as all the members of the Westboro Baptist Church do or shortly thereafter, and I hope and pray to whatever deity may exist that day comes soon.

^ My point was that homophobia wouldn't go but the rights would be given. I'm not entirely sure what you thought you were disagreeing with...

As to the specific idea of political activism against gay marriage... yeah, that'll die out. People get bored. It might not die out entirely for quite a while - might still be internet sites dedicated to how evil it is, for instance - but when every citizen of the West can marry, people will find new things to complain about. Eventually.

But then it'll probably kick off again if any non-Western countries start the same process.

It's In The Blood.:

^ My point was that homophobia wouldn't go but the rights would be given. I'm not entirely sure what you thought you were disagreeing with...

As to the specific idea of political activism against gay marriage... yeah, that'll die out. People get bored. It might not die out entirely for quite a while - might still be internet sites dedicated to how evil it is, for instance - but when every citizen of the West can marry, people will find new things to complain about. Eventually.

But then it'll probably kick off again if any non-Western countries start the same process.

I was disagreeing with the "we won't stop seeing God Hates Fags signs in our lifetime." Because that's what I'm referring to--the political activism type stuff against gay rights. People protesting in the streets. I think we'll get to see that die out.

^ I don't believe we'll stop seeing the sentiment. Whether the signs will go or not I honestly don't know. I agree that they'll "die out" - whether or not they'll entirely disappear I have no idea.

Changing the subject slightly...there was an interesting article in The Times today about how a straight couple attempted to get a civil partnership but were rejected on the grounds they weren't a homosexual couple. They're now seeking legal action and are even preparing to take it to the European Court of Human Rights if necessary because they feel they've been discriminated against because of their sexuality.

Thoughts?